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[sukhnidhaan]

Take a Hukham and follow your gut instinct!

This isnt probably the best advice!!!  But so far is worked for me!

89496[/snapback]

Well, faith and 'feeling it' is the key IMHO.

Bhul chuk maaf karnee.

WJKK WJKF

[buddasingh]

Taking into account what you are talking about here, and assuming you are of an adult age and lastly considering my anti b.s. mood at the moment...

Allow your parents to speak and always keep the door open to hearing them out. Tell them kindly that they are racist and nothing less. Tell them that you don't judge them rather judge their judgment of others. Tell them you will always respect and love them as your parents no matter what.

If you respect your parents then you will offer your hand to them, not hide your face. Tell them what you are going to do and do it don't look back. That simple.

[Bijla Singh]

my guru tells me not to follow rituals and worship idols

Guru Ji is correct. you can have any perception you want but that doesn't change the reality. idol is an idol and idol worship is total blindness according to Sikhi. Remember the time when a Sikh woman declared that her son was not a Sikh just to save his life but the reply of her son is something unique. Read that Sakhi and you will find your answer. Your real parents are Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Mata Sahib Kaur Ji.

my family says that i should marry in my own caste because its good for my future

ask your parents if they believe in caste. caste is not Sikhi but usually Sikh parents want to marry in their background group. They don't believe in caste and neither do they think they are superior to others. the reason for this is that most people don't change their caste habits after taking Amrit. few months ago there was discussion on this. you can do search for it.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[H4RPAL]

"my family says that i should marry in my own caste because its good for my future"

I will offer some practical advice rather than the spiritual etc which has already been offered here.

What I'll say about this is, do it if you have to. As simple as that do it if it means it will keep your parents happy. HOWEVER, when you marry, make sure you marry someone who (even if of the same caste) feels the same way about the issue as you (ie is happy with inter-caste marriage). What this means is that you may lose the battle, in that you will have to marry somenone of the same caste, BUT you can win the war (i.e. eradicate belief of same-caste marriage from future generations of your family). If you marry a like-minded individual when it comes to caste, both that individual and yourself will be happy for your childern to marry someone from another caste. In this way, we can work toward eventually removing this cancer that has crept into our society.

[Pheena]

"my family says that i should marry in my own caste because its good for my future"

I will offer some practical advice rather than the spiritual etc which has already been offered here.

What I'll say about this is, do it if you have to. As simple as that do it if it means it will keep your parents happy. HOWEVER, when you marry, make sure you marry someone who (even if of the same caste) feels the same way about the issue as you (ie is happy with inter-caste marriage). What this means is that you may lose the battle, in that you will have to marry somenone of the same caste, BUT you can win the war (i.e. eradicate belief of same-caste marriage from future generations of your family). If you marry a like-minded individual when it comes to caste, both that individual and yourself will be happy for your childern to marry someone from another caste. In this way, we can work toward eventually removing this cancer that has crept into our society.

89524[/snapback]

that is excellent advice bro.

[Jaspaul Singh]

I dont know what advice to give you bro... this is very VERY sad amongst our families nowadays...

Above all i would suggest keep doing ardas, seva, simran, which will sooner or later take in effect, and above all ... keep your sikhi and make your own personal decisions which will benefit you and therefore help you in the afterlife when meeting guru sahib. After all,.... its your own actions that will lead you to after life decisions.....

.... and to H4RPAL veerji

That is good advice BUT unfortunetely, your family ALWAYS intereferes with these kind of decisions and there will almost ALWAYS be some individual there to change your mind on stuff....

... i know a singh whos family is Jatt (people who know me know how much i hate using words such as these to describe someone but i have to in this case...)

... and his parents told him that you MUST marry a Jatt girl... if you marry anyone else other than a Jatt, we will NOT eat from her hands, and we will not let her in the house and we will NOT be happy with her and your decision....

.... supposedly i heard, they are ok wit a gori though <_<

REALLY REALLY SAD !!! Makes your wanna kill someone, cuz this is NOT what our gurus taught us... but i should shutup cuz anger was one thing on that list too ...............

bhul chuk maph!

[Bhajneet]

People are starting to blow things out of proportion again. Our parents’ generation and our generation. Our parents’ generation believes in too much tradition. Our generation believes in rigid Religion.

I'm not saying I’m an atheist or an anti-gurmukh or anything, hell no! What I'm saying is that people have to start learning the stuff behind everything. Why was it that you had to marry into the same caste? Why is it that you shouldn't have kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, and hankaar?

Like I said people are blowing it out of proportion.

On the main subject I will be extremely harsh and truthful (at least I think):

Your parents are extremely prejudiced, and I think that you should tell them about this. The moment I read your post I was extremely angered (I will explain why anger is okay later on). Lets take a little walk back into history for a moment. Caste is a Portuguese word meaning "social division". The Hindu word for caste is Warna (color). Indian historians think that caste came into play when the fair skinned Aryans, enslaved the dark skinned aboriginals and hated them as an inferior breed (around 1500 BC). around 200 BC, Manu codified the castes into four groups:

Brahman, Kashatrya, Vaish, and Shudra.

1. Heredity: one can't change his caste

2. Endogamy: a member of one caste must marry members of the same cast

3. Communal Restrictions: accepting food and drinks from other castes or mixing with them in meetings as equals is a big no no.

So tell your parents that Sikhism preaches perfect equality between human beings. The Guru Jee said: "God created light and infused it in everybody. How can some be good and others Evil?" (QUOTE:1)

Guru Nanak Dev Jee condemned discrimination between human beings as BS and said that human beings should be judged according to the deeds they have done. "Your caste is betrayed by your actions and behavior" (QUOTE:2).

If your parents won't even listen to the quotes from Gurbani tell them a real story then. Tell them how Bhai Mardana (Guru Nanak Dev Jee's very good friend) was condemned twice by society because of his low caste and because he was a Muslim in association with Guru Jee. Yet Guru Jee loved Mardana Jee and was friends with him until the end of Bhai Mardana Jee's Life without ONCE asking him to renounce Islam. "False is the distinction of caste and status. Everybody has equal protection of God" (QUOTE:3)

I think you honestly need to stand up to your parents, no joke (don't disrespect them, but don't do everything they say either). As Berkeley said "Do not believe in the words of a teacher unless you yourself are convinced of the truth contained in his words." You, Singhio, do not sound like you are convinced of what your parents are saying. Even Gurbani supports not blindly following a religion (like many people in the sangat and this forum are starting to do). "First, examine the merchandise carefully, and only then, make the deal." (QUOTE:4).

Back to the last post made. I know you didn't really mean it that strictly brother, but many other people in the forum are starting to, So don't think I'm slandering your name or your good deeds.

Some people think that one should not have any Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, or Egotism. I'm here to say that you are half-way wrong.

Don't lust, yeah that's right, but that doesn't mean you can't have Sex at all. After all Guru Nanak Dev Jee had 2 sons, they didn't just appear.

Don't get angry over small things, Correct. Be a complete pacifist however? No! You need to stand up for your rights and for others as well. I don't think that in all the battles fought by the Singhs, in which they didn't even once get angry.

Don't be greedy, correct! But don't try to give away all your money so that you can't even live! You need some greed (or ambition really) to gain money to support your family.

Do not be attached to worldly things, correct! But don't give up God as well.

Don't be egotistic about everything possible, correct! But don't think that you can't be proud every once in a while either.

I honestly think that its okay for you to be angry over this issue, this is very discriminating!

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1

Avil Alh nUru aupwieAw kudriq ky sB bMdy ]

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.

eyk nUr qy sBu jgu aupijAw kaun Bly ko mMdy ]1]

From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4892

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2

jwiq jnmu nh pUCIAY sc Gru lyhu bqwie ]

God does not ask about social class or birth; you must find your true home.

sw jwiq sw piq hY jyhy krm kmwie ]

That is your social class and that is your status - the karma of what you have done.

jnm mrn duKu kwtIAY nwnk CUtis nwie ]4]10]

The pains of death and rebirth are eradicated; O Nanak, salvation is in the Lord's Name. ||4||10||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4840

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3

PkV jwqI PkVu nwau ]

Pride in social status is empty; pride in personal glory is useless.

sBnw jIAw iekw Cwau ]

The One Lord gives shade to all beings.

Awphu jy ko Blw khwey ]

You may call yourself good;

nwnk qw pru jwpY jw piq lyKY pwey ]1]

O Nanak, this will only be known when your honor is approved in God's Account. ||1||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=207

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4

pihlw vsqu is\wix kY qW kIcY vwpwru ]

First, examine the merchandise, and then, make the deal.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5475

-Bhajneet

PS - I realize this is a very long Post, If you Instead would like to print it out and read it later I have attached the file in a Word File. (Should be 3 Pages)

Caste_and_Conversion.doc

[smartsingh24]

:wub: @ whoa. i'm suffering from information overload:ph34r:. That was an amazing post. <_< _oh:

[buddasingh]

People are starting to blow things into proportion again.

Don't get angry over small things, Correct. Be a complete pacifist however? No! You need to stand up for your rights and for others as well. I don't think that in all the battles fought by the Singhs, in which they didn't even once get angry.

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"into proportion".... :doh: i love it

Who is this Bhajneet kid? Lookout world, here comes a warrior. May you always share such a spirited understanding for sikhi and be so perceptive about when to go against the grain!

There are many chest beating monkeys or passive hermits amongst our kin (not on this forum),... we need high quality intelligent designer psychotic people.

:<Edited>: :<Edited>: :<Edited>: <_< :wub: :wub:

[Manmohan Kaur]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

My reply to confusedsingh is much less to do with Sikh teachings themselves. The only teachings I know of that are relevant are that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is our Father and Mata Sahib Ji our Mother, what our Father and Mother have given us and taught us is above anything our biological parents on this Earth say to us.

Although we should respect our parents there are a few issues you should remember when it comes to marriage.

Yes, caste should not exist, is it something that has been carried on from the Hindus and has nothing to do with us as Sikhs. Confusedsingh, please tell me are you following the trade of your so'called 'caste', most likely not. No Jatt in the UK, Canada or USA is a farmer, very few Tarkhaans are carpenters (apart from our dads) etc etc so the caste system does not apply anymore.

You have to patiently explain to your parents that we should not believe in caste and it makes no difference. you and your future wife will most likely be educated people, with degrees and well paid office jobs - how does your caste reflect this??? It doesn't!

This battle can be won! It took me a while but I managed to get my parents to accept me. They call themselves Sikhs but (no disrepect intended cos I love my parents they are great!) they have blind faith. And this means that they are more culturally and traditionally focused than relkigion apart from doing Paath.

My mum told me knot to wash my hair on tuesdays and thursdays so I did it on purpose every time when she told me off I said that my Guru Ji didn't say it and the Siana (elder) that did say it means nothing to me unless Guru Ji gave this command.

Over the years I have brought up light discussions with my parents about Sikhi, they have given me answers which I have proved wrong with Baani. I joined the Sikh society at uni and helped to run it, I started increasing my kowledge so that they could no longer tell me I was wrong in what I believed. And now they would be happy for me as a person to marry any Sikh regardless of caste however I acnnot say they would accept the same from my siblings as their beliefs are not as strong.

I guess what I'm saying is knowledge is power, even against parents.

the next thing I will say has nothing to do with Sikhi. I am assuming (forgive me if I'm wrong) that you are seeing a Sikh girl of different 'caste' and you want to marry her but parents don't agree.

If you love her marry her. I know that these relationships are not condoned by Sikhi but it's happened now you can't just forget it. If you marry someone of your parents choice you will still think of your girlfriend and will not treat yor wife with the love she deserves because you will resent her.

You have to remeber that only you can live your life not your parents. You have to live with your wife for the rest of your life. No disrepect intended but your parents will not be here forever, they will grow old and pass on, it is your wife that will accompany you on your life journey so make sure it's someone you will be happy with.

Don't worry too much, as soon as the first grandchild is born your parents will come around, it won't be a permanent upset. I've seen it happen so many times and now the parents love their daughters and sons in law they just needed to get to know them.

I'm not saying disrespect your parents I'm saying do what's right for you! Don't run away and get married, you need to gain your parents blessing and do it the right way even if it takes ages, you have to fight for what's right!

I hope this has helped in some way.

I'm sorry if I said anything wrong or offended anyone. Please forgive me as if I were your little sister, I'm young and anjaan.

Guru Fateh Ji