What do you guys think ..

[Jaspaul Singh]

waheguroo ji ka khalsa,

waheguroo ji ki fatehh

ok so gurpreet singh and myself went to take a first aid/cpr course this weekend and we learnt a lot .. it was pretty nice i recommend everyone to go for training even though you may not need it like us as mandatory for police .. but its a good idea to learn about casualties etx.. cuz we never know what we doing wrong.. i have to admit as an indian i had a lot of indian formulas that was a big no in an actual situation .. @

.. anyway .. now to the point..

what do you guys think of defibrillators ? For those that dont know .. its the electrical shock unit that ambulances carry and they have it at hospitals, and they use it when a person goes into shock or has no pulse (cpr) ..

.. the question is that in order to use that they must shave off the area on the chest before the use it because when they use it it can burn your hair on the chest and it can do further damage etx..

so what do you guys think ? Is this ok ? Like it is a life and death situation.. int his case would that be ok ?

[japmans]

of course it's okay.....

i mean, let's ask another First aid question... is it right if your subject is a female and you hafta pump her chest with your hands?

or, mouth to mouth, whtehr the subject is male or female or whatever.

and if the arguement against defibrilators (Aside from the hair thing) is that it's not hukam, then why even attempt first aid at all.

as far as the "issue" about the hair, my stance i think is pretty clear (after all.. i DID put issue in quotation marks haha)

[Gupt daasan daas]

thas a hard one

sant kartaar singh je rfused to have there hair cut even knowing if they didnt do operation the wud surley pass away

and we are never to commit bujjar kureight

so i guess we shudnt

bhula chuka maf

[Gurpreet Singh]

Me personally wouldn't like that to be done to me...i mean my stance is if someones gonna try to save me... if they they gotta pump me with their hands ..thats great....no ones touchin my hair...i dunno but at the moment this is what i think...judge me if u want...i mean theres other things docs say people need when they get sick...such as cod liver oil etc...and i've heard of cases where people refuse to eat fish and other meats to get better and they survived.....

[japmans]

fair enough.. but just to set the record straight.. there are cases where people have refused to eat meat/fish... but HAVEN'T gotten better....

the question was "What do you think about it"

the thing is this... i'm sure that the person teaching this course taught the course with the hope that saving someone's life would be the drive that each student would want to achieve.

If YOU have a problem with shaving someone else's chest area, remember that your principles are not someone else's.. i mean, i'm not saying you're wrong, cuz we're sikhs, and clearlyi share the principle that i will never voluntarily cut my hair..

but if my goal is to save someone's life.. and especially so if this person clearly has cut hair or whatnot... i'm not gonna force my opinions, ESPECIALLY if i'm the only capable person around to do the job.

then the question becomes about if you're the subject yourself.... the need to have CPR performed on you can come at any time.. you don't know when you're gonna have a heart attac.. you don't know when you're gonna drop and fall and need someone to recussitate you... the person performing the CPR is doing so in order to save your life... now, in all seriousness, unless you're going to keep a note on your person at all times stating "do not shave any part of my body hair if i collapse and require medical attention", i don't know if anyone's gonna refrain or refuse from trying to save your life

in fact, even having that note may not convince someone to refuse saving your life...

[buddasingh]

I think one could respect someone who makes a choice either way. However, the scope of the topic could be broader than just asking the question. There are many things associated with safety and medical practices that are done a certain way because… well they are done that way. Because the world is a certain way does not mean it should be that way, it means it could be better.

Each second is absolutely critical to avoid permanent brain damage or death. Maybe if Sikh bio-tech engineers were on a team, they would have advanced the technology without the need for shaving and wasting valuable time and would have prevented many unnecessary deaths.

Maybe if true sikh practices, including the value of kes were more prominent in societies and thus in the development of such technology, more people would value the martial aspect of life and keep in shape, value humility and not be stressed by the wealth rat race, value paaht and be healthier --- all resulting in less need for defibrillators and less deaths overall.

And please note that I did start by saying could respect someone making either decision. These topics always bring up the notion of sikhs as extremists. The true extremist is a person who is ‘open minded’ within their confined world. The free thinker will question the very world of the extremist. I could confuse you if you don’t read slowly on that thought, but here is another perspective and much better said:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw

[Gurpreet Singh]

Gur pyareo Japman Singh Ji....i understand what u are saying ...i think it all comes down to karmas....u try ur best and if its meant to be it will happen...i might consider keeping that note...its just my opinion...and u know what my opinion means==> nothing..

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

My appendix almost burst when I was 17 years old, and they shaved the lower right part of my stomach to perform emergency surgery....apendicitis is a very common occurrence, so how mnay sikhs would die a year from appendicitis if doctors couldn't shave the area to be operated on?

My friend had a brain tumor in his lower back part of the brain a few years back..the doctors had to shave a part of his kes to operate on the tumor...i don't know i think waaheguru will understand when your about to die like this...

I always thought the point of keeping kesh was because it is natural, but there is nothing natural about dying from preventable things such as appendicitis etc when medical science can save your life.

P.S. The singh with the tumor is doing awesome!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

fasting for religious purposes is completly viod of any phal, u will not met god by rmaining hungry

thas not the way to meet akal

that is bharm

but to do for blood tsts, nothing wrong witht ha

depends on purpose

bhula chuka maf

109358[/snapback]

Gupt daasan daas I think your reply to another post abour fasting applies here as well.

fateh.

[japmans]

i jus reread gupt daasan dass.. that's wicked, that's true.. fasting is nothing, but fasting for a purpose, i.e blod test..

that's amazing man.., like for me, that really hit me.. i dunno whyh, in my opinion...that's practicality right there.. that's taking sikhi, the principles,and understanding how they're to be understood in every day life... yes, we're not supposed to fast... YET... we should fast when doing these blood tests....

but then i guess.. why go to the doctor at all?