What do you guys think ..

[Gupt daasan daas]

veer je

as for the sakhee u talk about

guru je never ate the meat, as far as i remeber the stroy told, people with guru je did under guru jes command

f guru je says u can do it, i think it is ok

but unless guru je comes to u and says its ok, then i dont think its ok, but im sitting behind a comp and saying no, in real life i think the deciosn wud be hard tomake

bhula chuka maf

[buddasingh]

what's that expression --beat a dead horse, flog a horse-- something like that. Anyway, hoping not to do that, but again excellent points kharkoo.

I agree with you. Children are a group who would not be able to consent to die, generally speaking. Also, I don't think it is OK to not assist someone if they don't have the capacity to consent to NO surgery ---

---UNLESS that is the norm in society before hand and everybody understands it. --- in which case they should have to explicitly consent to the surgery.

And of course one should go through a red light at 2 AM if it means saving a life. A red light is not considered sacred by anyone and breach of it is not on par with breaching the hair of a Sikh. Hence when speaking of perspective on dogma –regard for a Sikhs kes despite DEATH correlates with regard for a red light, despite NO TRAFFIC. -- --correlation of cost/benefit is skewed by your proposed hypothetical of stopping at a red light at 2 AM despite DEATH.

Although making death the common denominator sounds like the proper analogy at first blush, one simply cannot compare “dogma” or “principle” of a Sikh keeping their hair despite death to someone stopping at a red light despite death. The former has purpose & deep historical and spiritual underpinnings; the latter is a practical implement, a tool.

Someone may do things that defy our reason for our own "higher reason". If a person said that they don't want life saving surgery because they don't like the sound of the word, then have them committed them and get them on the operating table. That is not a “higher reason”.

However, I think there is enough of a historical and spiritual underpinning to respect someone who says that they will not permit removal of a single hair FOR THEMSELVES (not what is best for others) and what happens may happen. AGAIN, I LIKELY SIDE WITH YOU. However, when it comes to someone who has peacefully taken the beauty of sikhi to an extreme and they do no harm anyone, I may not be completely on side with them &, but I likely will be in awe of them.

I hope you are involved in shaping the panth outside of this forum kharkoo, we are badly in need of open minded people like you getting involved.

[`KuMi´]

Hvaing electricity pumped through you is an auxillarating expericance

Note: Neva go to india and touch a switch that looks dodgey

[H4RPAL]

Hvaing electricity pumped through you is an auxillarating expericance

Note: Neva go to india and touch a switch that looks dodgey

109876[/snapback]

All switches look dodgy in India!!! How am i meant to turn the fan on??????

[Heera Singh]

u can get kumi to go turn it on... muahahaha..

[`KuMi´]

The fan was my first experiance

[nanosecond]

I think in Mughals case....it's fighting against opression whereas in case of defibrillation it's not.

Intention of Mughals was bad.....intention of Doctor is good.

By cutting ur hair in response to Mughals or any opressor is cowardly.....whereas it's not in a life saving emergency.

[Harnek Singh]

Waheguru Jika Khalsa, Waheguru Jiki Fateh

In my humble opinion, it is ok. If you feel there is purpose in your life to do seva for others, if you feel you can still contribute, then it is ok...as in it is ok to eat meat if there is no food around, and your existense for the panth is greater. :TH:

Ooops, I hope I didn't started another eat meat or not debate. @

[Heera Singh]

hahaha.. i think u mite've...

but i'll change the topic...

so kumi... tell us about ur fan experience..!

[`KuMi´]

Lollll, Well in the early days that i went to india, i was about 8 years old,

and like, i got hott so i asked my bibi jee if i could turn da fan on, she

sed 'yehh thats sfe wid me do watcha want', so i took her advice and i

turned da fan on. I turned it on at first i fort 'That fan is going a bit

sloww' so den i turned it higher furthermore before i could realise my

finger slipped nd then i felt a lil tingle, which felt funny so i kept it on

there longer, den before i could take my finger off, a bigg blast of the

most feared 'india bitchaly' (india electricity) overcame me and i feltt

paralyed, so i shouted for my bibi to come, eventually when she came

she goes ' Saleyahh dont make me slapp u up sort ur self out, stupid

honkey' at this point i burst in to tears beacuse of my frightfull event, but after i

started laughin, den i fort that was fun. So after thinking this,

like the fool i am i touched it again, nd it felt like an even bigger shock

than before, so once again i called for my bibi, so goes ' Akal Oni Nee

Thenu', nd i started crying so bad, she got a slipper and wailed me one,

then i started to cry even more, so what my bibi thought the more she

hit me the more id stop crying, so she wailed me again, at this point i

got angry then i made one of thoes scrunched up faces, before i could

change it she wacked me, (it hurtt) i cryed even more, she she sed

'Shut Yow Mouf Before I Beat Yow A ss to Tha Floor', Then i really

thought she ment it so i slowed stopped crying, then i like started the

hiccups, den all of a sudden my bibi turned around, nd sed in a mean

voice ' Kutheyyaa Mai Tenu Marrdunaahh', I got scared nd i shut my

trappp.

Well thats that storyy