Kaljug And Gurbani

[The Khalsa Fauj]

If Guru Ji mentions something, then does that mean Guru Ji accepted it as truth? How about the Shabad where this theory of jugs was rejected. You ignored it. It seems like you don't care about the deep meaning. You just said you have Brahmgian. Lets see you Brahmgian on TV. Start making videos like Dhudreewala. I will buy it and listen. I told to talk on msn but I don't know what is stopping you. Add me to msn and lets solve this once for all. I answered you last time. You were quiet for some days and you come up with the same thing again. You can't diffrentiate between example and truth. Go read the Vedas, and Saastars and Puraans. Have fun.

[singhmota]

If Guru Ji mentions something, then does that mean Guru Ji accepted it as truth? How about the Shabad where this theory of jugs was rejected.

125175[/snapback]

can u please paste it here again

[Akaali]

Please keep the personal attacks away from the point of the topic.

[singh_khalsa]

just read this:

bwxI vjI chu jugI sco scu suxwie ]

baanee vajee chahu jugee sacho sach sunaae ||

The Word of the Guru's Bani vibrates throughout the four ages. As Truth, it teaches Truth.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

just read this:

bwxI vjI chu jugI sco scu suxwie ]

baanee vajee chahu jugee sacho sach sunaae ||

The Word of the Guru's Bani vibrates throughout the four ages. As Truth, it teaches Truth.

125361[/snapback]

How does that mean 4 jugs exist or existed? Also who created this division of 4 jugs? Guru Ji or Brahmasn who wrote the puranic granths? Guru Ji just used the name to explain to common people. Jugs are not accepted here.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

rwmklI mhlw 1 AstpdIAw

<> siqgur pRswid ] soeI cMdu cVih sy qwry soeI idnIAru qpq rhY ] sw DrqI so pauxu Julwry jug jIA Kyly Qwv kYsy ]1] jIvn qlb invwir ] hovY prvwxw krih iD|wxw kil lKx vIcwir ]1] rhwau ] ikqY dyis n AwieAw suxIAY qIrQ pwis n bYTw ] dwqw dwnu kry qh nwhI mhl auswir n bYTw ]2] jy ko squ kry so CIjY qp Gir qpu n hoeI ] jy ko nwau ley bdnwvI kil ky lKx eyeI ]3] ijsu iskdwrI iqsih KuAwrI cwkr kyhy frxw ] jw iskdwrY pvY jMjIrI qw cwkr hQhu mrxw ]4] AwKu guxw kil AweIAY ] iqhu jug kyrw rihAw qpwvsu jy gux dyih q pweIAY ]1] rhwau ] kil klvwlI srw inbyVI kwjI ik®snw hoAw ] bwxI bRhmw bydu AQrbxu krxI kIriq lihAw ]5] piq ivxu pUjw sq ivxu sMjmu jq ivxu kwhy jnyaU ] nwvhu Dovhu iqlku cVwvhu suc ivxu soc n hoeI ]6] kil prvwxu kqyb kurwxu ] poQI pMifq rhy purwx ] nwnk nwau BieAw rhmwxu ] kir krqw qU eyko jwxu ]7] nwnk nwmu imlY vifAweI eydU aupir krmu nhI ] jy Gir hodY mMgix jweIAY iPir Elwmw imlY qhI ]8]1] {pMnw 902-903}

pd ArQ :—soeI—auhI [ cVih—cVHdy hn [ idnIAru—{idnkr} sUrj [ sw—auhI {not :—pVnWv ‘sw’ iesq®I ilMg hY Aqy ‘so’ puilMg hY} [ Julwry—JuldI hY [ jug jIA Kyly—jug (dw pRBwv) jIvW (dy mn) ivc Kyf irhw hY [ Qwv kYsy—QwvW auqy ikvyN (Kyf skdw hY) ? not :—l&z ‘Qwv’ l&z ‘Qwau’ qoN bhu-vcn hY} [1[

jIvn qlb—jIvn dI qlb, suAwrQ [ qlb—loV, ie`Cw [ invwir—dUr kr [ hovY prvwxw—(inAW) mMinAw jWdw hY [ iD|wxw—zor, D`kw, zulm [ lKx—l`Cx, inSwnIAW [ vIcwir—smJ [1[rhwau[

ikqY dyis—iksy BI dys ivc [ qh—auQy, aus QW [ auswir—auswr ky, bxw ky [2[

squ—au~cw Awcrn [ CIjY—iC`jdw hY, (lokW dIAW nzrW ivc) if`gdw hY [ qp Gir—qp dy Gr ivc, ijs dy Gr ivc qp hY, qpsÍI [ nwau—prmwqmw dw nwm [ eyeI—iehI (hn) [3[

iskdwrI—srdwrI, cODr [ KuAwrI—iz`lq, durgiq [ kyhy—kwhdy vwsqy ? iskdwrY—iskdwr ƒ [4[

AwKu guxw—(prmwqmw dy) gux AwK [ kil AweIAY—(jy) kiljug (BI) AwieAw mMn ilAw jwey [ kyrw—dw [ iqhu jug kyrw—iqMnW hI jugW dw [ rihAw—rih igAw hY, mu`k igAw hY [ qpwvsu—inAW, pRBwv [ dyih—(hy pRBU !) qUM dyvyN [ q pweIAY—qW (ieh gux hI) pRwpq krn jog hn [1[rhwau[

kil—(iehI) kljug (hY) [ kl vwlI—klh vwlI, JgVy vDwx vwlI [ srw—Srh, Dwrmk kwƒn [ inbyVI—inbyVw krn vwlI, &Yslw dyx vwlI, inAW krn vwlI [ kwjI—JgiVAW dy &Ysly krn vwlw hwkm [ ik®Snw—kwlw, kwly idl vwlw, v`FI-^or [ krxI—au~cw Awcrn [ kIriq—prmwqmw dI is&iq-swlwh [ lihAw—(lokW dy mnW qoN) lih gey hn [5[

pUjw—dyv-pUjw, dyviqAW dI pUjw [ piq—pRBU-pqI [ sq—au~cw Awcrn [ sMjmu—ieMid®AW ƒ rokx dw jqn [ jq—kwm-vwsnw ƒ rokxw [ kwhy—kIh lwB ? ivArQ [ suc—pivq®qw [6[

kil—ieh hY kiljug [ prvwxu—(jyhVy "iD|wxw krih" auhnW dy dbwau hyT) mMny jw rhy hn [ rhy—rih gey hn [7[

eydU aupir—ies qoN syRSt [ Elwmw—iglw, Srm-swrI [ qhI—auQy [8[

ArQ :—(hy pMifq ! Awpxy mn ivcoN) ^ud-ZrzI dUr kr (ieh ^ud-ZrzI kiljug hY [ ies ^ud-ZrzI dy Asr hyT jrvwxy lok kmzorW auqy) D`kw krdy hn qy (auhnW dIAW nzrW ivc) ieh D`kw jwiez smiJAw jWdw hY [ ^ud-ZrzI qy dUijAW auqy D`kw—hy pMifq ! iehnW ƒ) kiljug dy l`Cx smJ [1[rhwau[

(ijs Asl kiljug dw izkr AsW kIqw hY aus) kiljug dw pRBwv hI jIvW dy mnW ivc (KyfW) Kyfdw hY iksy ^ws QwvW ivc nhIN Kyf skdw (ikauNik sqjug qy®qw duAwpur Awidk swry hI simAW ivc) auhI cMd®mw cVHdw AwieAw hY, auhI qwry cVHdy Aw rhy hn, auhI sUrj cmkdw Aw irhw hY, auhI DrqI hY qy auhI hvw JuldI Aw rhI hY [1[

iksy ny kdy nhIN suixAw ik kiljug iksy ^ws dys ivc AwieAw hoieAw hY, iksy ^ws qIrQ kol bYTw hoieAw hY [ ijQy koeI dwnI dwn krdw hY auQy BI bYTw hoieAw iksy nhIN suixAw, iksy QW kiljug mhl auswr ky nhIN bYT irhw [2[

jy koeI mnu`K Awpxw Awcrn au~cw bxWdw hY qW auh (sgoN lokW dIAW nzrW ivc) if`gdw hY, jy koeI qpI hox dw dwhvw krdw hY qW aus dy ieMd®uy Awpxy v`s ivc nhIN hn, jy joeI prmwqmw dw nwm ismrdw hY qW (lokW ivc sgoN aus dI) bdnwmI huMdI hY [ (hy pMifq ! BYVw Awcrn, ieMd®y v`s ivc nwh hoxy, pRBU-nwm v`loN n&rq—) ieh hn kiljug dy l`Cx [3[

(pr ieh ^ud-ZrzI qy kmzorW auqy D`kw suKI jIvn dw rsqw nhIN) ijs mnu`K ƒ dUijAW auqy srdwrI imldI hY (qy auh kmzorW auqy D`kw krdw hY) aus dI hI (ies D`ky-zulm dy kwrn Aw^r) durgiq huMdI hY [ nOkrW ƒ (aus durgiq qoN koeI) ^qrw nhIN huMdw [ jdoN aus srdwr dy gl ivc Pwhw pYNdw hY, qW auh auhnW nOkrW dy h`QoN hI mrdw hY [4[

(hy pMifq ! qyry kihx Anuswr jy hux) kiljug dw smw hI Aw igAw hY (qW BI qIrQ vrq Awidk krm kWf dw rsqw C`f ky) prmwqmw dI is&iq-swlwh kr (ikauNik qyry Drm Swsq®W Anuswr kiljug ivc is&iq-swlwh hI prvwn hY, qy) pihly iqMn jugW dw pRBwv hux mu`k cukw hY [ (so, hy pMifq ! prmwqmw Agy ieauN ArzoeI kr—hy pRBU ! jy b^SS krnI hY qW Awpxy) guxW dI b^SS kr, ieh hI pRwpq krn-jog hY [1[rhwau[

(hy pMifq) kiljug ieh hY (ik muslmwnI hkUmq ivc D`ky-zor nwl) JgVy vDwx vwlw ieslwmI kwƒn hI &Ysly krn vwlw bixAw hoieAw hY, qy inAW krn vwlw kwzI-hwkm v`FI-^or ho cukw hY [ jwdU tUixAW dw prcwrk) AQrbx vyd bRhmw dI bwxI pRDwn hY [ au~cw Awcrn qy is&iq-swlwh lokW dy mnW qoN lih gey hn—iehI hY kiljug [5[

pqI-prmwqmw ƒ ivswr ky ieh dyv-pUjw iks ArQ ? au~cy Awcrn qoN ^wlI rih ky ies sMjm dw kIh lwB ? jy ivcwrW vloN rok-QMm nhIN qW jnyaU kIh sMvwrdw hY ? (hy pMifq !) qusI (qIrQW qy) ieSnwn krdy ho, (srIr ml ml ky) DoNdy ho, (m`Qy auqy) iqlk lWdy ho (qy ies ƒ pivq® krm smJdy ho), pr pivq® Awcrn qoN ibnw ieh bwhrlI pivq®qw koeI mu`l nhIN r`KdI [ (Asl ivc ieh BulyKw BI kiljug hI hY) [6[

(ieslwmI hkUmq dy D`ky zor dy hyT) SwmI ikqwbW qy kurwn ƒ pRvwngI id`qI jw rhI hY, pMifqW dIAW purwx Awidk pusqkW rih geIAW hn [ hy nwnk ! (ies zor D`ky hyT hI) prmwqmw dw nwm ‘rhmwn’ AwiKAw jw irhw hY—ieh BI, hy pMifq ! kiljug (dw l`Cx) hY (iksy dy Dwrimk ivSvws ƒ D`ky zor nwl ‘iD|wxy’ nwl dbwxw kiljug dw pRBwv hY) [ hy pMifq ! hr ieko krqwr hY hI ieh sB kuJ krn vwlw jwx [7[

hy nwnk ! jo mnu`K prmwqmw dw nwm jpdw hY aus ƒ (lok prlok ivc) ie`zq imldI hY, nwm jpx qoN vDIk cMgw hor koeI krm nhIN hY (pMifq qIrQ vrq Awidk krmW ƒ hI slwhuMdw rihMdw hY) [ (prmwqmw hryk dy ihrdy ivc v`sdw hY, aus dw nwm BulwieAW ieh sUJ nhIN rihMdI qy mnu`K hor hor Awsry q`kdw iPrdw hY) prmwqmw dwqwr ihrdy-Gr ivc hovy qy Bu`lV jIv bwhr dyvI dyviqAW Awidk qoN mMgdw iPry, ieh doS jIv dy isr AwauNdw hY [8[1

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Theory that kalyug is a time period and an entity causing us to do bad things just got rejected. Guru Ji says blaming things on Kalyug etc. is manmat.

[International Akaali]

singh mota where are you.. or any other person wanna reply????

[alias]

rwqy kI inMdw krih AYsw kil mih fITw ]6]

what is kil here?

here, this tuk is saying, if you do >ninda< nindia, you are in the kal. ditta is 'in' or 'there' . its kind of like pointing 'there'.

it is saying that you will be in..., basicaly big crapness. crapness is kaljug.

hope somone gets to read this! :rolleyes:

[SunSingh]

all 4 yugs do exist as time periods, although I think it is also accurate to use them to define states of mind. satyug refers to a time when the influence of dharm was prevalent and people generally followed dharm. today, the influence of satyug is quite weak and influence of kaljug is strongest, adharm prevails. so far i have seen nothing in gurbani to disprove this. please provide some qoutes from gurbani to back up your arguments.

the time when each age began or ended etc. is irrelevant to examining the issue of whether or not these ages exist as time periods in Gurbani.

ਗਉੜੀ ਬੈਰਾਗਣਿ

गउड़ी बैरागणि

Ga­oṛī bairāgaṇ

Gauree Bairaagan:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik­oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਸਤੁ ਤੇਤਾ ਜਗੀ ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਪੂਜਾਚਾਰ ॥

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, was Truth; in the Silver Age of Trayta Yuga, charitable feasts; in the Brass Age of Dwaapar Yuga, there was worship.

ਤੀਨੌ ਜੁਗ ਤੀਨੌ ਦਿੜੇ ਕਲਿ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰ ॥੧॥

तीनौ जुग तीनौ दिड़े कलि केवल नाम अधार ॥१॥

Ŧīnou jug ṯīnou ḏiṛė kal kėval nām aḏẖār. ||1||

In those three ages, people held to these three ways. But in the Iron Age of Kali Yuga, the Name of the Lord is your only Support. ||1|| (ang 346)

we can see that different religious methods were prevealent in different ages, supporting a litereal interpretation of yuga as a time period.

ਸਤਜੁਗੁ ਤ੍ਰੇਤਾ ਦੁਆਪਰੁ ਭਣੀਐ ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਊਤਮੋ ਜੁਗਾ ਮਾਹਿ ॥

The Golden Age of Sat Yuga, the Silver Age of Trayta Yuga, and the Brass Age of Dwaapar Yuga are good; but the best is the Dark Age, the Iron Age, of Kali Yuga. (ang 406)

Again, a clear and explicit support of the yugs as time periods. If this shabad referred to them as states of mind than satyug would be the best. This absolutely disproves that yugs always refer to states of mind (alhtough in some OTHER cases yug is used to refer to mind-states as well)

ਜਤੁ ਸੰਜਮ ਤੀਰਥ ਓਨਾ ਜੁਗਾ ਕਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥੨॥

Celibacy, self-discipline and pilgrimages were the essence of Dharma in those past ages; but in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Praise of the Lord's Name is the essence of Dharma. ||2|| (ang 797)

Again, support for what I have written above.