Free Will

[ParwinderSingh]

WJ KK WJKF

i just got a question about free will. i was reading on another forum and basically does god know what choices we will make in our life because he knows everything. If he knows everything and what we will do then how does free will fit into that?

hope u see what im gettin at.......... what im tryin to answer is that how does free will work if God knows already .........

[Jitty]

WJ KK WJKF

i just got a question about free will. i was reading on another forum and basically does god know what choices we will make in our life because he knows everything. If he knows everything and what we will do then how does free will fit into that?

hope u see what im gettin at.......... what im tryin to answer is that how does free will work if God knows already .........

145625[/snapback]

I am not as knowledgeable as many on this board but I can tell you my own beliefs.

I believe god has put you on this earth to find yourself and in finding yourself you find him.

The choices you make in doing this are your own free will.

If god has not given us free will and he/she is the controller of everything including time then why would god not just "fast forward" to the end?

[LostSoul]

Free will is an illusion to me. I feel that we can not limit Gods knowledge and my having free will wouldnt it challenege him? Meaning it would seem strange if The All Mighty Omnipotent Lord God wouldnlt know how my life would end, like he would say "wow I didnt see that coming!" I feel God gave us Life to expierence it and all the aspects of it, hence birth and death cycle. Every lifetime we have to expeience being everything and anything that God has created with life in it. Murderers, Theives, Saints, Rapists, Rapees, Men, Women, everything so we could grow as souls and take in all he has to offer us. Of course God knows what will come of us but he wants us to expierence it so we could grow closer to him. Thats just my two cents.

[WGJKKWGJKF]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

God knows everything of what we are going to do etc.

'Free-will' is just God allowing us to choose what we want to do,

i.e. Praying or not.

respecting our parents or not etc

God told us to respect our parents, he as guided us on every aspect in life, but if we follow that or not he has given this choice to us (so we can test ourself, how truthful we are).

Why?

because If God forced us to Pray we would be like robotic machines doing things without feeling, without believing, without love.

But by giving us 'free-will' it makes us understand how true we are (in a sense its gives us a test for ourselfs aswell in trying to find out how truthful we are) and doing the right thing even if there is bad things there to tempt us.

As the TRUE people even though tempted by evil they will overcome that and follow God's instructions, coz they know its best for them and humanity and most of all, they want to follow Gods command out of love.

If we were forced to pray etc, we would automatically just go to Heaven, but how will we be able to distinguish between the truthful one's?

I hope that helped- im 16 so my knolege is limited so please forgive me if said any thing wrong.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[Kharkoo4Life]

The concept of Divine Will is not an easy concept to understand. Particularly when we try to understand it against the 'free will' we humans are granted. At first glance this seems contradictory, that if God is the doer of all then what value does our free will hold.

The Divine Will of God is something so grand and complex that it is beyond mans full understanding. The more we try to break it down and analyze it the more confused we will get. That being said, gurbani still does use some simple examples to give us hints or basic ideas of how this Divine Will vs Free Human Will works.

One of the examples often used to try and illustrate free will is that of animals kept on farms. For instance, an ox is kept tied to a tree with a rope. That ox walks around freely on the nearby pastures in whichever direction it pleases, eating whatever grass it wants all the time thinking that i am free and can do whatever i wish. It does not realize that its free will, while it indeed exists, is confined within the greater will of its master (thru the rope). The ox is only able to do as much on its own as the master permits it to. Whenever the masters wishes it can pull the ox back into line with a simple tug.

Such is the state of man as well. God has given us a certain amount of free will. To live life, to experience the joys and sorrows of this world, to make new decisions everyday on how we wish to live our life. Gods love for man is so immense that he has given man certain freedoms. IF we were kept tightly shackled to a single spot for our whole life what kind of expression of love would that be from the master? It is because of this free will of each man that each man is so unique. This is why so much variety exists in this world in terms of attitude, personality, emotions etc just like a beautiful garden with an endless variety of flowers.

But living within this free will man forgets that just like the ox his own will is finite and exists within the greater Will of God. When we get engrossed in thinking that everything we do happens by our own will, that is when we begin to experience pain in our life. When we strat thinking that it is i who studied so many hours ang got this degree, or that it is I who worked so hard and made enough money to buy this house etc. Even when it comes to the domain of religion, if we think we can walk this path on our own and achieve union with GOd by our own thoughts, actions then we are mistaken.

AwpxY BwxY khu ikin suKu pwieAw AMDw AMDu kmweI ]

Tell me, who has ever found peace by following his own will? The blind act in blindness.

There is an old story of a fakir and his disciple where the disciple also confused in thinkin that free will is absolute asks his teacher, "Oh sire we are taught that we have free will then i wish to know why we are also told to follow the will of God. Am i not able to do whatever i want by the power of my own will?"

The fakir answers, "let me show you what the free will of man is". The disciple was standing so the fakir asks him to life one foot off the ground. The disciple lifts his left foot off the ground, thinking to himself, see i made the decision adn then carried it out. No one had any control over.

The fakir then tells him "now lift ur right foot off the ground, but the condition is that you can't put your other foot down while doing so." The disciple tries, but as much as he tries he is unable to lift his right foot off the ground without bringin his left back onto the ground.

This is the state of mans free will. We make one decision but as soon as we are faced with another decision we have to recant or change our previous decision so that the new one can be carried out. What kind of absolute free will is it where we cant even hold on to our previous decisions? Where we repent our eariler decisions and have to change them because they don't allow us to carry out new ones.

This is why the guru has taught us that if u wish to use your free will for anything use it to submit yourself to the will of the guru. That is why each time we mutha taik, we are saying that GuruJi, i know nothing and am capable of nothing so please take me under your guidance and show me the correct way.

so isKu sKw bMDpu hY BweI ij gur ky Bwxy ivic AwvY ]

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will.

AwpxY BwxY jo clY BweI ivCuiV cotw KwvY ]

One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished

This serves two purposes. Firstly, the will of the Guru is the same as the Will of God for the guru lives 100% in accordance to the will of God. Everythin the guru says or does is in tune with the Will of God.

Secondly, it instill a sense of humility in the Sikh. The Guru Granth Sahib begins with the question how can man come to realize God and become one with Him and the answer follows by living according to the Divine Will. This is the foundation of a Sikhs life. Now somone can easily start following His Will, they can start keepin their hair and say see i am keeping hair cuz it is Gods Will, they can adopt the five kakaar and say see i am keeping the uniform of Khalsa cuz it is the Gurus will, and so on. IN each case while they are indeed following the Will of God/Guru a sense of ego develops in their mind that look how wonderful a devotee of God i've become thru my following the Divine WIll. But the guru says, one who still holds onto even the slightest sense of "I" or "me" that person is still far from living according to Gods will.

That is why in the very next lines of Guru Granth Sahib, the guru goes on to give us some example of the absoluteness of the DIvine Will and how everything ultimately falls under it. In the very end the guru says:

hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]

Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command.

nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2]

O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego.

This does not mean that we will completely be able to explain or comprehend every detailed working of His Will. For that is beyond mans comprehension. Whatit means is when a man comes to appreciate and understand the fact that no matter what he does, God is aware and present in that, that our own free will is miniscule and powerless in the face of Gods Supreme Will, that person will humbly submit himself before the LOrd and start living according to the Will of God.

He will no longer try to resists or oppose Gods will by doing things according to his own likings or preferences. He will no longer say that what happened here was bad and become angry or sad, and nor will he say what happened here was great and become ecstatic. He will accept whatever God does as good, and anything good which happens in his own life he will not take credit for it but say that it is the grace of God Himself who made it all possible.

Thru reading gurbani we should come to understand that:

qU krih su scy Blw hY gur sbid buJwhI ]

Whatever You do is good, O True Lord; this understanding is obtained through the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

qU krx kwrx smrQu hY dUjw ko nwhI ]

You are the Cause of causes, the All-powerful Lord; there is no other at all.

jo ikCu kry so Blw kir mwnIAY ihkmiq hukmu cukweIAY ]

Whatever the Lord does, accept that as good; do away with your own cleverness and self-will.

And ultimately we will reach the stage where we see nothing but God and Gods doing all around us and be able to emrace it with open loving arms, just as the thousands of shaheed singhs and singhnis of the past equaly embraced the gruesome tortures they were put thru with the same smiling face as they embraced the companionship of the guru.

PrIdw duKu suKu ieku kir idl qy lwih ivkwru ]

Fareed, look upon pleasure and pain as the same; eradicate corruption from your heart.

Alh BwvY so Blw qW lBI drbwru ]109]

Whatever pleases the Lord God is good; understand this, and you will reach His Court.

Im sure ive left a great deal unexplained for i myself am just starting to understand many of these deeper concepts within Sikhi. Hopefully others will be able to add to this and give better explanations and examples.

[TeraRoop11]

I don't believe in the concept of free will per se.

Vaahiguroo Jee Maharaj has everything in His own Hands. Whatever is done, whatever occurs, is caused directly by Him. Nothing is in our hands, nothing at all.

This has been a huuuuuuge time consuming debate process in my head for a loooong while. Someone asked me, 'why does it matter?'. Just do what you'd do anyway.

Then this morning, at an amaaaazingg Aasa di Vaar, I paid attention like never before.. and I saw those words of Guroo Jee that dissolved any doubt of mine.. there is no us, not ever. It's all always Him.

bhull chuk maaf karan di kripaalta bakshni Maharaj

Vaahiguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsa Vaahiguroo Jee Kee Fatehh!

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What Kharkoo4Life Jee said