Heavens and Hells

[Guest balwinderkaur]

i definitely wouldnt wanna come back to this world...have had enough of it.....heheh and im saying this after 19 years of being on earth......*lol*

[Niranjana]

Virji, this world that you and I are livin in is just an illusion... this is a place where we are given a chance so that we can do as much of bhagti and sewa so that we can obtain mukti,,, would you want to keep coming back to this cruel world? I dont knwo about you virji, but i wont want too...

Gur Afteh!

Is the world really an illusion? The concept of 'maya' has a different meaning in Sikhi to my understanding than in traditional Indian texts (i.e. BUdhhist, Jain, Tantric, Shivite, Vaishnav...etc).

Under these systems Maya = illusion, as you allude to...from my (extremely limited) understanding of Sikhi, Maya is not exactly that extreme...

...Nirankar VaheGurU created maya and in present in everything...I don't believe we need to fear these things (like renunciates do)...it is about realising the beauty of Akaal in everything...the Akal Ustat is full of the paradoxical nature of Vaheguru...that may help Sardar Sahib Jaswant Singh further with his feelings...

Jale Hari, Thalae Hari, Oorey Hair Parey Hari!!!

forgive my foolish nature...

-forever at the feet of the sadh sangat-

[Pheena]

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji says in Japji Sahib, "Sach Khand Vasey Nirankar". So Sachkhand should be our optimal destination, but for some reasons, I don't know why I don't want to merge with God. I don't know I have this feeling, that everything will be lost if I merge with God, just like a drop loses it identity and separateness when it merges in ocean, i will be destroyed.  There there won't be me anymore. God will be me and I will be God, no difference, but there is one thing that I don't understand and that is, i have this feeling, that if i merge with God, i won't know who i was and who i am now, it willl all be mixed up. For some reasons, I don't have desire to merge with God. I know this is a not a good feeling for a Sikh to have, but I have it. I don't know why. Can someone here explain merging with God and whole Naam Simran concept. It is soooo confusing and unhappy for me.

Thanks,

Jaswant Singh

what you are trying to hold on to is nothing but a Dream. You don't want to loose this dream, this illusion that "you" exist. That is EGO veer. You are definelty not alone in this matter, as i have passed thru this same feeling and still sometimes questions arise in my mind.

But i have begun to realize that I do not exist, with that thinking all the problems that face me today are not real for I is false and the a

ssociations with that I are false as well. That is Maya. The dream. The reason for Simran is to lose your self in Simran and all that would remain is his rememberence.

As long as you remain so will Duality of this world. As long as your Existance of I is there you will go thru this birth and death for as long as you keep your I with you. When you lose that I, so you will loose all that is associated with this Maya. The Maya is only attached to the existance of I. For I exists so does Duality....ie. Hapiness and Sadnes, Birth and Death.

Read the thread i posted....it will answer most of your question on Ego.

Click Here

[JSingh]

Thanks Pheena Ji, I have read all of the posts on that link, they are very very helpful. But I had difficulty understanding some of the concepts. I think it will take time. I think this is a feeling that I have for a ever since I came to know these things, I have this fear that merging with God, i will be lost, and not merging with God, i will be in 8.4 million joons. Or I will come again as human being and pay off my past karam and create new ones and this will keep going. Sometimes I wonder, there were many sant mahahpursh in sikh history, such as Sant Attar Singh Ji, Sant Ishar Singh Ji, Sant Nand Singh Ji, and many more, and all of them were ang sang with Guru Sahib. And I can't understand if they were one with God, they have merged with God, how come they came to earth? Or this is like first that drop merged with ocean, and that ocean took the same drop out of it, and sent it to the world? If this is so, does that means while merging in the ocean, that drop retained its uniqueness? If it did, then how can we call it merging since it is separable?

Another question: I have read some sakhis in a book about Sant Attar Singh Ji that mentions that sant ji and many others had darshan of Guru Ji in human form. How is this possible if our Gurus have merged with God. I know they were one Jot, but there is this think that I don' t understand and that is, Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed that Jot to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Does that mean that Jot, the Jot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji have not merged with Waheguru, since it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If it had merged with God, how can it still be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and merged with God, does th

at mean that Jot is in two forms or phases, both merged and not merged?

I am asking this because few years ago, a bhai sahib came to our local gurdwara that I said about people having the darshan of Guru Ji in human forms. He completely disagreed to it and said that, it is not possible. Our Gurus have merged with Waheguru and cannot be seen in Human forms. If someone has seen them in human form, then that means they have not merged with Waheguru. This is so confusing. He was a kathakaar, and he looked at it from his studies, but the Sakhis of the sants are real life experience. Which one is right? Kathakaar said what Gurbani says, such as, "sooraj kiran mili, jal ka jal hooaa ram." Who is right? It is all confusing. Can someone please enlighten me on this?

I'm sorry if I have hurt anyone. I am asking these questions only to remove and clear my misunderstandings.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Jaswant Singh

[Pheena]

Thanks Pheena Ji, I have read all of the posts on that link, they are very very helpful. But I had difficulty understanding some of the concepts. I think it will take time. I think this is a feeling that I have for a ever since I came to know these things, I have this fear that merging with God, i will be lost, and not merging with God, i will be in 8.4 million joons. Or I will come again as  human being and pay off my past karam and create new ones and this will keep going. Sometimes I wonder, there were many sant mahahpursh in sikh history, such as Sant Attar Singh Ji, Sant Ishar Singh Ji, Sant Nand Singh Ji, and many more, and all of them were ang sang with Guru Sahib. And I can't understand if they were one with God, they have merged with God, how come they came to earth? Or this is like first that drop merged with ocean, and that ocean took the same drop out of it, and sent it to the world? If this is so, does that means while merging in the ocean, that drop  retained its uniqueness? If it did, then how can we call it merging since it is separable?

Your understanding of god is as if he is s

omewhere else and you are anothe rplace. Guru ji says he is within us...for he is around us, every where he is prevading. It not as the drop came out of the ocean again. The drop is still within the ocean for the ocean (god) is no where else but all around us, within us. The illusion that we create is that we are seperate from him. YOu don't have to go somewhere to be with god....being where you are with him. You cannot escape him. You are no different than god himself. Is an Cube of Ice differnt than the water? You begin to belvie that you are different, but in reality when that ego dissolves (the Cube of ice melts) it becomes water, for it was water all along. The Glaciers retain their shape when it is no different than water it self...but simply frozen. So you can differentiate between the water and the ice, but they are not different. They are One. As is you (in ur pure forum ie egoless) and God.

Another question: I have read some sakhis in a book about Sant Attar Singh Ji that mentions that sant ji and many others had darshan of Guru Ji in human form. How is this possible if our Gurus have merged with God. I know they were one Jot, but there is this think that I don' t understand and that is, Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed that Jot to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Does that mean that Jot, the Jot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji have not merged with Waheguru, since it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If it had merged with God, how can it still be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If it is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and merged with God, does that mean that Jot is in two forms or phases, both merged and not merged?

Veer, this is how i understand it, The jot is not something that can be seen with eyes. The joat is the Knowledge, the Supreem Gia

an of Waheguru. For Guru is Giaan. The knowledge that the Guru's Possesed has been passed on to our SGGS. The Shabads are our guru. That Knowledge Exists all around us. It is not as somewhere it is in abundance and in another place it is not. It is equally all around us. Your thinking is still as to merge with god you have to go somehwere, He is Ever Prevading. He exists everywhere. You don't have to go anywhere, just dive in your heart and he is there.

I am asking this because few years ago, a bhai sahib came to our local gurdwara that I said about people having the darshan of Guru Ji in human forms. He completely disagreed to it and said that, it is not possible. Our Gurus have merged with Waheguru and cannot be seen in Human forms. If someone has seen them in human form, then that means they have not merged with Waheguru. This is so confusing. He was a kathakaar, and he looked at it from his studies, but the Sakhis of the sants are real life experience. Which one is right? Kathakaar said what Gurbani says, such as, "sooraj kiran mili, jal ka jal hooaa ram." Who is right? It is all confusing. Can someone please enlighten me on this?

If they Physically saw guru ji then it is complelty bogus, if they saw him in a Vision or their dreams then it is a great step in their Journey. For it is the Mind who sees our Guru, it was the creation of the mind. If you want something so bad that all day all you do is think about it.....after a time when it has settled in your unconcious mind, you will dream about it. Similarily we see Guru ji's in Dreams, for it is our desire to meet guru ji that the mind has created this reality. But visions are different, for you are Aware when they occur. In the dream it is a Unconcious stat

e.

But i am no expert in this...that is how i understand these things, Perhaps someone can give u a better explanation for this.

If i find something that explains this throughly, i'll send it to you.

Waheguru.

[bravekhalsa]

siqgur no jyhw ko ieCdw qyhw Plu pwey koie ]

sathigur no jaehaa ko eishhadhaa thaehaa fal paaeae koe ||

As one feels towards the True Guru, so are the rewards he receives.

I disagree with you. I think it is very much possible to see Guroo Sahib in a human form if thats wat u have wished for. If you have done so much Bhagtee you can almost tell that you are about to have Guroo sahib's Darshan so which ever form you Wish to see Guroo Sahib in thats form he'll come in and give you his darshan.

All the Gurmukhs who have had Guroo's darshan in a human form are right. I have even heard stories of some lucky people seeing LIGHT coming out of Guroo Granth Sahib Jee. I mean people like me have never experienced such thing but the people who actually Believe in guroo granth sahib ji from their heart have had that kinda experience...

and J singh jee don't be so confused about the Guroo and Waheguroo. Guroo and waheguroo are One with each other in jot sroop. Gur Parmeshar Eko Jaan But Waheguroo has sent Guroo for us to get to God. Guroo is our Guide. At the same time Guroo is part of God. I can try to explain more in person to u. My thought jam wen I m typing..

[Pheena]

bravekhalsa ji, are you speaking as if Guru ji coming in a Vision?? or something else??

when you say human forum, that would be the only way since we cannot see the Joat of the Guru, we would have to see the physical version of the guru for us to perceive it as we saw the Guru.

I don't doubt that other haven't had a vision of the guru, but it was/is a vision. Perhaps it is the same thing as seeing the guru Physically.

I don't know, its a bit confusing. When someone says physically, i take it as i can see the physical person next to me and i can touch and feel that person. I take that with skeptacism. But who knows.....those that have had such experinces know what they have felt, i can only speculate.

Waheguru.

[Mkhalsa]

Guru sahib says akal purakh himself came as a lion and killed harnakash. Akal purakh coems to those who are lovingly devoted. Trust me, guru sahib manifests himself physically to those who are deserving of it. To say it cant happen is ignorance. Its entirely possible, why wouldnt it be?

[JSingh]

"Trust me, guru sahib manifests himself physically to those who are deserving of it."

I believe this. I think it is only our 'bhaavna' that brings us close to and separate us from our Guru.

Jaswant Singh

[Niranjana]

Guru sahib says akal purakh himself came as a lion and killed harnakash. Akal purakh coems to those who are lovingly devoted. Trust me, guru sahib manifests himself physically to those who are deserving of it. To say it cant happen is ignorance. Its entirely possible, why wouldnt it be?

"Guru sahib says akal purakh himself came as a lion and killed harnakash"

Is that so, or did Akal Jeeo manifest as 'Narsingh' to protect Praladh?

Is Narsingh a lion or half-man, half-lion?

But I agree Maharaj is everywhere and in everything and always protects gurmukhs...

Bir ras de naal...

GUR BAR AKAAAAAALLLL!