Southall Vaisakhi Nagar Bhangra & Kirtan ?

[rsingh]

Let me put what I said in to context. Culture can be good but certain aspects such as caste do not, never have and never will be compatible with sikhi, may that be caste, drinking, etc

[Long live the khalsa]

Let me put what I said in to context. Culture can be good but certain aspects such as caste do not, never have and never will be compatible with sikhi, may that be caste, drinking, etc

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paji forgive me if u have misunderstood me i too agree tht culture is important but all this bhangra makes me sick and the way that people think that it is all part of sikhi

forgive me for my mistakes, i am a moorakh

[rsingh]

benti please make it clear where you are writing some the above its hard to figure whos saying what. thanks

5). None of our dancers had their heads uncovered. They all wore Turbans and some of our members are Gursikh themselves.

err look at the photos in the article!

(gurpreet) Err..you look at the photos Singh!! none of the Bhangra Dancers (they are the ones in colourful uniforms if you haven't noticed) have their heads uncovered.

There shouldn’t be Bhangra dancers End of story. Nagar KIRTAN, how can you be singing guroo sahibs bani. Dhurki Bani that has be give to us which is the only truth and then be playing the dhol and singing songs??

6). In India for many years and in Southall, Bhangra dancers have been part of the nagar kirtan with most people in the Sikh Sangat having no issue. There is a small minority intent on causing friction.

With regards to 6. Which minority are you talking about? The “sikh” Sangats with no issue are usually the ones who wont speak up. I think it’s the bhangra guys who should no more. When the gursikhs had words why did guys start doing it again in a while become khalsa before you say raj karega!

Silence has to be broken by some one. Bhai Fauja singh Jee didn’t stay quite even if others did.

7). I agree there was some bad behaviour from people in the Sangat but please be accurate before you make allegations against our Bhangra group which has been serving the community well for over 30 years.

I am glad you agree about the bad behaviour of all bhangera dancers. I can see how you can have peopel doing bhangra and then have gursikhs doing keertan behind them.

(gurpreet) Thats not what I said so please learn English properly. The Punjab Dancers Bhangra Group of Southall was given permission by commitee leaders to perform our cultural dance and display the heritage of the Sikh/Punjabi people.

Can you have bhangra at gurdwara? Would great singhs like Shaheed Bhai Fauja singh let you do bhangra in gurdwara? They how can you justify it at nagar KIRTAN?

7). Do not loose your identity - Culturally and Religiously.

You need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins. Culture is the thing that spreading filth in Sikh community and centre of alot off problems. Certain asspects of culture such as Caste are in direct conflict with Sikhi yet we refuse to let go, hence we are loosing our youth from Sikhi

(gurpreet) I am very disappointed that you are ashamed of your culture. I agree with you that we need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins but you must also not forget our culture. I totally disagree that it spreads filth. Actually our Bhangra classes help keep our youth of the streets of Southall any away from bad things. Caste has not even come into this conversation so leave it out. Bhangra has got nothing to do with Caste. I agree with you that we are loosing our youth from Sikhi - but that is because of the extremism that we are seeing these days which is turning people away

Here we go again. Any one who has submitted to will of guroo and taken amrit is extreme but everyone else is fine. Why is it that all these dholl and bhangra classes attract “singhs” to shave of there dhara? I know a singh who started going and he shaved his dhara of. Its about sangat,,, sangat rubbs off. Go to rainsbai youll get gursikhi sangat go to gig u get manmat. Simple as.  Doing loud Satnam Vahiguroo Jaap as guys where doing some times would be so much more better and effective imagine the impression you give to your younger brothers and sisters. :wub:

vahiguroo anng sang

[SSM]

Why do we bloody need bhangra when kirtan is being played?

Forget Himmat Singh, use your own head if God gave you one, and think for a moment that are your dhols better than what is being played by the Kirtanis in Guru Ji's vehicle.

Stop blaming other people for your stupidity and think what you have encouraged, your bhangra group is what encourages others to do bhangra and drink and dance with heads uncovered.

It's perhaps not easy to vote for a real sikh in the committees these days when you have the option between a Himmat Singh and a worse Singh.

[sher_panjabi]

Origin

Nagar Kirtans originate from ‘PARBHAAT PHERIS’ (Parbhaat literally means ‘early morning,’ and Pheri means ‘going around’). The Parbhaat Pheri would consist of a Gursikh carrying a vaaja (harmonium) tied to themselves, some people would carry chhainey (bells), and one person would carry a dholki. One of the earliest Parbhaat Pheris is from Guru Hargobind Ji's time when Guru Sahib was in Gwalior Fort. Baba Buddha Ji led a Parbhaat Pheri around the Gwalior as a form of protest and raising the spirits of the Sikhs.

Early in the morning the group of Gursikhs would walk around the village or city SINGING SHABADS and people would join them as they walked past their homes. Leading the jatha (group) would be the people leading the shabad singing and a Gursikh carrying a Nishan Sahib. The processions gave opportunity for people to enjoy the bliss of singing the Lord’s Praises, an opportunity to distribute relevant and useful GURMAT LITERATURE to the public and also SHARE A POSITIVE IMAGE of the Guru's Khalsa.

In recent history we have started doing processions which include Guru Maharaaj's Sawaari (without Prakaash) and also Panj Pyaare leading the procession.

Benefit of Traditional Nagar Kirtan

The traditional Nagar Kirtans or Parbhaat Pheris inspired people to SING GURBAANI and gave them opportunity to DISTRIBUTE EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL in regards to Gurmat. Seeing Chardikala Gursikhs in public singing Kirtan provided the public and youngsters with POSITIVE ROLE MODELS and GOOD IMPRESSIONS of what and who Sikhs are. The whole event would have a COMMUNITY SPIRIT, gathering the community together and INSPIRING OTHERS to sing and understand Gurbaani.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

jan naanak DhooR mangai tis gursikh kee jo aap japai avrai naam japaavai.2.

Translation: "Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it."

(Ang 306, SGGS)

ਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਖ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਹੋ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

aavhu sikh satguroo ke piaarihu gaavhu sachee baaNee.

Translation: "Come, O beloved Sikhs of the True Guru, and sing the True Word of His Baani."

(Ang 920, SGGS)

Today’s Nagar Kirtans

* EAT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN squeeze into your stomach. You can see the development of gluttony.

* Wearing as many BIG KHANDEY possible and WAVING A NISHAAN SAHIB like people wave a football team flag in a football game.

* PUSHING one another and SQUASHING OTHERS (young, old and children) attempting to do Matha Tekh.

* If you are bored of the Kirtan, there's an OPTION OF DOING BHANGRA and jumping and down, with a few Jaikaaray being shouted out in between the dancing.

RAB BHALLA KARE! (Don't know what else to comment!)

* Some positive points: You see some children sitting on floats and SINGING SHABADS or parents with their children who have especially DRESSED UP IN BANA and sing along with the Kirtan. However, these people are sadly a MINORITY!

How productive are today’s Nagar Kirtans in educating, promoting and highlighting Gurmat

Generally the whole atmosphere of Nagar Kirtans nowadays is of a STREET CARNIVAL, with an unfortunate motto of "KHAA-O PEE-O AISH KARO" being practiced.

Thought to take away

We are celebrating 307 years of the Khalsa Panth. We should ask ourselves WHAT DO WE LEARN from Vaisakhi of 1699 and the establishment of the Khalsa Panth? How do we IMPROVE OURSELVES, and what steps do we take to change and adjust our lives to become CLOSER TO GURU JI and receiving the TRUE KUSHEE (happiness) of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Bhul chuk maaf karnee jee.

Daas,

Manvir Singh Khalsa

[Lionchild]

gurp45@hotmail.com...

I understand your stance on culture, why not set up a nagar bhangra parade AFTER the nagar kirtan?

That way, everyone is satisfied and no friction or confusion. Since you mention being "poud of your culture" at the event - i should be able to display and sing tradtional songs of my culture too... umm, no. There are places to do this stuff, the nagar kirtan is not one of those places.

[Guest militant singh]

We was sayin'Khalistan Zindabad',while doing seva ,but then sum ''papa'' sikhs afghan 1's said dont say it and u know the usual crap people say most people got happy @ the sight of us sayin khalistan zindabad ,we r the youth people should be happy that we sayin that while doin seva .And 1 fing i dont get the 1's who told us 2 stop were sayin raj karagea khalsa ,y say that if u aint gona even let us say khalistan zindabad -which is about khalsa raj ,,they make me sick

[koonergs]

I think you should listen to them, people in India say "you westerners can keep shouting Khalistan Zindabad but your only saying it there not in India", in India if you were to say Khalistan Zindabad in a public open event like a Nagar Kirtan, theres no doubt Punjab Police would take you away and I wouldnt want to know what they would do to you

I dont get it you think poeple should be happy for you for saying Khalistan Zindabad, I dont get it why they should be happy for you and someone did some graffiti on the wall outside the Havelock Road Gurudwara, wouldnt know anything about that would you lol?

Heres something i want to make a some discussion on, ive noticed how other sects also take part in the Nagar kirtan like the Naamdhari sect, do you reckon they should be allowed to take part in and have their own truck even if they dont believe in there being 10 Gurus e.t.c

I was at the Nagar Kirtan yesterday. it was brilliant but the rain kind of ruined it in the end and made it freezing cold! But still it was worth making the journey and the Kirtan was amazing!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[GurSa Singh]

I suppose we seem to be focusing on only one of the negatives of the Nagar Kirtan. There is the problem of corporate advertising and the naamdhari's promoting their "satguru".

This year there was some literature handed out in Southall in response to the naamdhari parchar handed out last year. The naamdharis didn't do a float this year, but they did have their banners in the Nagar Kirtan promoting "his holiness satguru jagjit singh ji maharaj". There were 2 incidents I witnessed where some Singhs and naamdharis had heated debates within the Nagar Kirtan.

And then there were confrontations with the Western Union Guys, just like last year. How long can these confrontations carry on for? People walk past and accuse us of being fanatics. I was called a Khalistani by a group of ladies giving out their flyers for a free facial at their salon.

Sohi's committee and other Gurdwara committees should have the balls to release strict guidlines about what can be and cannot be part of the official Nagar Kirtan. No Bhangra, No Advertising, No Naamdharis or any other anti panthic groups. They are employees of Guru Maharaj, hence they are only answerable to Guru Maharaj, no one else.

[kurtas]

oh and one more point, has anyone failed to mention why we allow companies to advertise their Businesses at the Nagar Kirtan.  Anyone who gives you something wants to make sure you know who gave it whether its western union or some of the local businesses. Just to be clear, we are a non-profit organisation and were only promoting our culture at the nagar kirtan. 

Also, why does no one ask SGPC why they have not banned Bhangra Dancers at nagar kirtans.  If they did then we will back their decision.

Best Regards

Gurpreet

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The SGPC are a management committee not the Khalsa Panth.

If you want to celebrate Vasaikhi for its Punjabi cultural reasons then why not organise a seperate march from the one celebrating the founding of the Khalsa. then you can chak de fatte, bomb the thumbi, dance with the lambera de nouw and help jagiro play her dhol.