Southall Vaisakhi Nagar Bhangra & Kirtan ?

[singh_comradz]

in reference to the idiots who get <Edited> and give Sikhs a bad name, handsworth soho rd after the mela is just as bad...

[Prem]

When did Nagar Kirtans become incorporated into the Sikh rehat? What is the history of this? When did the tradition start? Anyone know?

[sall]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji ke Fateh

If we all know this happens year in year out and it shouldn't then why is the cream of Educated Sikh sangat from the Middlesex area sitting lame on this. Do you think that Guru Sahib will accept us as  Sikhs where the (prabhat fari) from which the nagar kirtan stems that bolyaa and bhangra is happening. We remain silent and on the chardi kala 50% side .Personally speaking nagar kirtan should happen without bhanhgra it should happen with only one thing being sung GURBANI with massive projections of translations in English throughout the parade for everyone to see and sing from. But that's only day dreaming, one town in the UK needs to make this difference others could follow suit. Otherwise this'll get so worse as it already has and it'll be like a notting hill carnival. What will the chardi kala types be classed as then ....neither here or there..Apologies for being abrupt but I am included here too for criticism.

159801[/snapback]

Khalsa Ji, You said the right things!!!

Sorry to say this, but sometimes Southall feels like one big let down! The politics lets the place down, that's why the elders don't seem to get anywhere.

Banning the dhol may alleviate the problem, but there are floats which pump dharmic geet which some people seem to think they can dance to.

I think the culture confusion is still the biggest problem, generally people do not seem to know the line where Punjabiness ends and Sikhi begins. The Southall Nagar Kirtan has gradually over the years provided an environment for the punjabi activities to carry on. Each year seems to get worse and worse. People do not really understand why they are there. Let's face it, the Nagar Kirtan is now seen as a Carnival by many, commercial advertising, food stalls, it's like one big party. Most people aren't there for Guru Ji, but for the free food.

There were only 2 stalls (one by BOSS and one by GURSEVA) giving out free literature this year as compared to dozens of food stalls, which were packed out.

159821[/snapback]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji ke Fateh

So let's get the floats pumping Gurbani for 4 hours, they can pump all the bhangra they want later on or have as many gigs as they want. However in the presence of SGGS Mahraj and Sikh sangat there should be a Gurdwara atmosphere only and that means Gurbani and Gurbani translations , Dhaddi or kaveeshers, kaavita. That is Sikhe culture, decades have gone on and it disgust me that the Sikhs cannot even give our SGGS Mahraaj pure 3-4 hours of Mahraajs own jewel of diamonds on display.It 's a shame on us till the day comes we resolve this issue. Tell me one thing when the first nagar kirtan happnenned in Southall was it like the ones at the present day.

SGPC is good for some things but not all , we can't rely on them to make the proper stance but when Sikh sangat and punjabi bhangra veers give SGGS Maharaaj this total bliss of 4 hours of Sikh culture then maybe they will have to adapt and make the change.

[sall]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji ke Fateh

If we all know this happens year in year out and it shouldn't then why is the cream of Educated Sikh sangat from the Middlesex area sitting lame on this. Do you think that Guru Sahib will accept us as  Sikhs where the (prabhat fari) from which the nagar kirtan stems that bolyaa and bhangra is happening. We remain silent and on the chardi kala 50% side .Personally speaking nagar kirtan should happen without bhanhgra it should happen with only one thing being sung GURBANI with massive projections of translations in English throughout the parade for everyone to see and sing from. But that's only day dreaming, one town in the UK needs to make this difference others could follow suit. Otherwise this'll get so worse as it already has and it'll be like a notting hill carnival. What will the chardi kala types be classed as then ....neither here or there..Apologies for being abrupt but I am included here too for criticism.

159801[/snapback]

Khalsa Ji, You said the right things!!!

Sorry to say this, but sometimes Southall feels like one big let down! The politics lets the place down, that's why the elders don't seem to get anywhere.

Banning the dhol may alleviate the problem, but there are floats which pump dharmic geet which some people seem to think they can dance to.

I think the culture confusion is still the biggest problem, generally people do not seem to know the line where Punjabiness ends and Sikhi begins. The Southall Nagar Kirtan has gradually over the years provided an environment for the punjabi activities to carry on. Each year seems to get worse and worse. People do not really understand why they are there. Let's face it, the Nagar Kirtan is now seen as a Carnival by many, commercial advertising, food stalls, it's like one big party. Most people aren't there for Guru Ji, but for the free food.

There were only 2 stalls (one by BOSS and one by GURSEVA) giving out free literature this year as compared to dozens of food stalls, which were packed out.

159821[/snapback]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji ke Fateh

So let's get the floats pumping Gurbani for 4 hours, they can pump all the bhangra they want later on or have as many gigs as they want. However in the presence of SGGS Mahraj and Sikh sangat there should be a Gurdwara atmosphere only and that means Gurbani and Gurbani translations , Dhaddi or kaveeshers, kaavita. That is Sikhe culture, decades have gone on and it disgust me that the Sikhs cannot even give our SGGS Mahraaj pure 3-4 hours of Mahraajs own jewel of diamonds on display.It 's a shame on us till the day comes we resolve this issue. Tell me one thing when the first nagar kirtan happnenned in Southall was it like the ones at the present day.

SGPC is good for some things but not all , we can't rely on them to make the proper stance but when Sikh sangat and punjabi bhangra veers give SGGS Maharaaj this total bliss of 4 hours of Sikh culture then maybe they will have to adapt and make the change.

159830[/snapback]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Wahegur Ji ke Fateh

Apologies I shouldn't mentioned 4 hours it should be the whole day.

[rsingh]

First of all I am socked of some of the lies by the editors. I am a member of the Bhangra Group that you guys photographed but I want to set the record straight on some issues:-

1). There was no singing of Bolyian by us that had any reference to alcohol or women. We are not as stupid as some of you may think.

I was told by singhs there was and they complained to a sevadars.

2). Full permission was granted from Himmat Singh Sohi for our dancers to be part of the nagar kirtan - Next year we will be applying for a Truck Permit. He is the elected president of the gurdwara who the Sikh Sangat have elected themselves - Why don't you ask to see what he has to say.

vahiguroo

3). The birth of the sikh religion was created on this vaisakhi day in a mela where there were celebrations.

Wrong bhai Khanday di paul and Khalsa was given form on Vaisakhi day.

4). Bhangra is part of Punjabi culture and only the Punjabi Culture.

Nagar Keertan is about Keertan, Gurmat and Sikhi NOT Panjabi Bhangra keep that at home. Would you do bhangra in a gurdwara?

5). None of our dancers had their heads uncovered. They all wore Turbans and some of our members are Gursikh themselves.

err look at the photos in the article!

6). In India for many years and in Southall, Bhangra dancers have been part of the nagar kirtan with most people in the Sikh Sangat having no issue. There is a small minority intent on causing friction.

how many Sikhs are there in the world? no really how many are actually sikhs? hmmm I thought so?

7). I agree there was some bad behaviour from people in the Sangat but please be accurate before you make allegations against our Bhangra group which has been serving the community well for over 30 years.

I am glad you agree about the bad behaviour of all bhangera dancers. I can see how you can have peopel doing bhangra and then have gursikhs doing keertan behind them.

7). Do not loose your identity - Culturally and Religiously.

You need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins. Culture is the thing that spreading filth in Sikh community and centre of alot off problems. Certain asspects of culture such as Caste are in direct conflict with Sikhi yet we refuse to let go, hence we are loosing our youth from Sikhi.

[gurp45@hotmail.com]

First of all I am socked of some of the lies by the editors. I am a member of the Bhangra Group that you guys photographed but I want to set the record straight on some issues:-

1). There was no singing of Bolyian by us that had any reference to alcohol or women. We are not as stupid as some of you may think.

I was told by singhs there was and they complained to a sevadars.

(gurpreet) Not by any member of our group

2). Full permission was granted from Himmat Singh Sohi for our dancers to be part of the nagar kirtan - Next year we will be applying for a Truck Permit. He is the elected president of the gurdwara who the Sikh Sangat have elected themselves - Why don't you ask to see what he has to say.

vahiguroo

(gurpreet)I'll take that remark as a no comment.

3). The birth of the sikh religion was created on this vaisakhi day in a mela where there were celebrations.

Wrong bhai Khanday di paul and Khalsa was given form on Vaisakhi day.

(gurpreet)Thanks for the correction but my point still stands. I meant to say Khalsa.

4). Bhangra is part of Punjabi culture and only the Punjabi Culture.

Nagar Keertan is about Keertan, Gurmat and Sikhi NOT Panjabi Bhangra keep that at home. Would you do bhangra in a gurdwara?

(gurpreet)Thats what we are debating here so matter of opinion.

5). None of our dancers had their heads uncovered. They all wore Turbans and some of our members are Gursikh themselves.

err look at the photos in the article!

(gurpreet) Err..you look at the photos Singh!! none of the Bhangra Dancers (they are the ones in colourful uniforms if you haven't noticed) have their heads uncovered.

6). In India for many years and in Southall, Bhangra dancers have been part of the nagar kirtan with most people in the Sikh Sangat having no issue. There is a small minority intent on causing friction.

how many Sikhs are there in the world? no really how many are actually sikhs? hmmm I thought so?

(gurpreet) What is relavence of your point? That the 'actual sikhs' are the once causing the friction? Not sure I understood you.

7). I agree there was some bad behaviour from people in the Sangat but please be accurate before you make allegations against our Bhangra group which has been serving the community well for over 30 years.

I am glad you agree about the bad behaviour of all bhangera dancers. I can see how you can have peopel doing bhangra and then have gursikhs doing keertan behind them.

(gurpreet) Thats not what I said so please learn English properly. The Punjab Dancers Bhangra Group of Southall was given permission by commitee leaders to perform our cultural dance and display the heritage of the Sikh/Punjabi people.

7). Do not loose your identity - Culturally and Religiously.

You need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins. Culture is the thing that spreading filth in Sikh community and centre of alot off problems. Certain asspects of culture such as Caste are in direct conflict with Sikhi yet we refuse to let go, hence we are loosing our youth from Sikhi

(gurpreet) I am very disappointed that you are ashamed of your culture. I agree with you that we need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins but you must also not forget our culture. I totally disagree that it spreads filth. Actually our Bhangra classes help keep our youth of the streets of Southall any away from bad things. Caste has not even come into this conversation so leave it out. Bhangra has got nothing to do with Caste. I agree with you that we are loosing our youth from Sikhi - but that is because of the extremism that we are seeing these days which is turning people away

[_GURSIKH_]

vjkk vjkf

in reference to the idiots who get <Edited> and give Sikhs a bad name, handsworth soho rd after the mela is just as bad...

159824[/snapback]

100% sach bolyaa ji. i alwys go 2 handswrth mela n going dis year aswell hopefully. the nagar kirtan is gud :wub: n den afta da nagar kirtan dere r fyts in da prk munday kuriyaa checkng out each otha n drinking sharaab n givng evri1 bad nme. i bet if u ask em whas sikhi bout dey wudnt evn kno dat dey jst go dere 2 act bad beat ppl n shw off. raab janay enya lokaa nu ki hoya dere days. tut tut

FATEH!!

[Long live the khalsa]

3). The birth of the sikh religion was created on this vaisakhi day in a mela where there were celebrations.

Wrong bhai Khanday di paul and Khalsa was given form on Vaisakhi day.

(gurpreet)Thanks for the correction but my point still stands. I meant to say Khalsa.

4). Bhangra is part of Punjabi culture and only the Punjabi Culture.

Nagar Keertan is about Keertan, Gurmat and Sikhi NOT Panjabi Bhangra keep that at home. Would you do bhangra in a gurdwara?

(gurpreet)Thats what we are debating here so matter of opinion.

There is no debate whether Nagar kirtan involves bhangra as rsingh paji said nagar kirtan is about keertan, gurmat and sikhi otherwise it would be called nagar bhangra

5). None of our dancers had their heads uncovered. They all wore Turbans and some of our members are Gursikh themselves.

err look at the photos in the article!

(gurpreet) Err..you look at the photos Singh!! none of the Bhangra Dancers (they are the ones in colourful uniforms if you haven't noticed) have their heads uncovered.

6). In India for many years and in Southall, Bhangra dancers have been part of the nagar kirtan with most people in the Sikh Sangat having no issue. There is a small minority intent on causing friction.

how many Sikhs are there in the world? no really how many are actually sikhs? hmmm I thought so?

(gurpreet) What is relavence of your point? That the 'actual sikhs' are the once causing the friction? Not sure I understood you.

7). I agree there was some bad behaviour from people in the Sangat but please be accurate before you make allegations against our Bhangra group which has been serving the community well for over 30 years.

I am glad you agree about the bad behaviour of all bhangera dancers. I can see how you can have peopel doing bhangra and then have gursikhs doing keertan behind them.

(gurpreet) Thats not what I said so please learn English properly. The Punjab Dancers Bhangra Group of Southall was given permission by commitee leaders to perform our cultural dance and display the heritage of the Sikh/Punjabi people.

7). Do not loose your identity - Culturally and Religiously.

You need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins. Culture is the thing that spreading filth in Sikh community and centre of alot off problems. Certain asspects of culture such as Caste are in direct conflict with Sikhi yet we refuse to let go, hence we are loosing our youth from Sikhi

(gurpreet) I am very disappointed that you are ashamed of your culture. I agree with you that we need to learn when culture ends and Sikhi begins but you must also not forget our culture. I totally disagree that it spreads filth. Actually our Bhangra classes help keep our youth of the streets of Southall any away from bad things. Caste has not even come into this conversation so leave it out. Bhangra has got nothing to do with Caste. I agree with you that we are loosing our youth from Sikhi - but that is because of the extremism that we are seeing these days which is turning people away

159846[/snapback]

excuse me but spreading the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev ji doesnt quite fit into extremism does it?????

if u want to do ur bhangra den organise ur own events and keep it seperate from sikhi cuz sikhis gt nothing to do with

bhul chuk maaf

forgive me for my mistakes

first nagar keertan was held in 1700 by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj (i think)

[blatisingh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I think it depends on where you were in the Nagar Keertan. It was the first time I went to the Southall Nagar Keertan. Sodhi Sahib and Laddie Sahib did really good keertan - the whole sangat around the PaalKee was singing with them. For me, the atmosphere was such that it felt like being at a Rehnsbaee.

I guess those that come for the "mela" will always attend for that reason. Those that want the sangat will focus on the spiritual aspect of the Nagar Keertan. Although the Parbandhaks should actively engage to ensure that no such Bhangra happens.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

159802[/snapback]

it is for this very reason i stayed at the front right behind, Guru maharaj Ji, for me it was an amazing atmosphere like an open air diwan!!

[Long live the khalsa]

6). In India for many years and in Southall, Bhangra dancers have been part of the nagar kirtan with most people in the Sikh Sangat having no issue. There is a small minority intent on causing friction.

how many Sikhs are there in the world? no really how many are actually sikhs? hmmm I thought so?

(gurpreet) What is relavence of your point? That the 'actual sikhs' are the once causing the friction? Not sure I understood you.

159850[/snapback]

Those 'actual sikhs' are the 1s who try to keep the sikh dharam pure and so when people come to poison the sikh religion these 'actual sikhsfight for the rights of sikhi so it is not their fault as they are not in the wrong. people who try to poison religion are infact the 1s who cause the friction

bhul chuk maaf