Beadbi Of Guru Ji - Wedding @ Thistle This Sunday

[singh_comradz]

Thats a bit of a climb down. Just two minutes ago I thought we had found the new Dr Gopal Singh Ji.

its amusing how u seem to think ur funny and that by talkin like this will help stop beadbi. you and others have a valid point, i understand there is and has been beadbi of our guru ji, however u should understand there is a more diplomatic way to get more siks on your side.

meetings held a gurdwaras would be a start and educating young sikhs as to why it is wrong to take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji out of the gurdwara. and apply this to all aspects not just segment what is ok and what is not.

someone in one thread said we are alll here to learn, the only way to learn is to be taught and if some think they know more then others, then teach those of us who dont.

encourage, do not belittle

Rina ji, i don't wish to belittle your comments, instead I will attempt to educate, not preach or patronise, a little on the importance of SGGS.

I agree with you on the aspect that education is really important, being conducted in a peaceful way.

There really is no excuse for people making threats and to come a better understanding we should look at both sides of the argument.

1. Couple have planned to marry and have a granthi who will conduct Anand Karaj at a hotel which is convenient for the families. As far as the couple are aware there is nothing wrong with this, otherwise the Granthi would have aired his objections.

2. On the other hand Guru Gobind Singh passed on the Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib. The Guru Granth Sahib is considered as the Divine Guru of the Sikhs, paramount amongst anything. The jot (light) which passed through the ten mortal Guru's was embodied in the message (bani) contained in the Guru Granth Sahib

Gu= from darkness

Ru= into light

Throughout history Sikhs have sacrificed their lives for their Guru which is illustrated shortly in ardas.

When we mutha tekh we are doing it to Guru Nanak Dev ji or Guru Gobind Singh ji, because the same light which was in Guru Nanak Dev Ji is manifested into the Guru Granth Sahib ji.

No doubt that it would hurt Sikh sentiments if the Guru Granth Sahib is taken to a place where meat, alcohol, tobacco was served whether it be a house, hotel or off license. After all would any of the mortal Guru's have gone to such a place. There is a sakhi, forgive me if I get it wrong but here goes..

Guru Gobind Singh Ji was travelling with his Singhs when he stopped by a tobacco tree. He took out his sword and slashed the tree from its roots. When asked by his Singhs why he did such a thing Guru Sahib said that alcohol can destroy one generation but tobacco destroys many generations.

This is a tuk from Guru Amar Ji, Ang 554, SGGS

सलोक मः ३ ॥

salok mehlaa 3.

Shalok, Third Mehl:

ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਣਿਆ ਮਾਣਸੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਆਇ ॥

माणसु भरिआ आणिआ माणसु भरिआ आइ ॥

maanas bhari-aa aani-aa maanas bhari-aa aa-ay.

One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup.

ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਮਤਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਰਲੁ ਪਵੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇ ॥

जितु पीतै मति दूरि होइ बरलु पवै विचि आइ ॥

jit peetai mat door ho-ay baral pavai vich aa-ay.

Drinking the wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind;

ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰਾਇਆ ਨ ਪਛਾਣਈ ਖਸਮਹੁ ਧਕੇ ਖਾਇ ॥

आपणा पराइआ न पछाणई खसमहु धके खाइ ॥

aapnaa paraa-i-aa na pachhaan-ee khasmahu Dhakay khaa-ay.

he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master.

ਜਿਤੁ ਪੀਤੈ ਖਸਮੁ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਦਰਗਹ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ ॥

जितु पीतै खसमु विसरै दरगह मिलै सजाइ ॥

jit peetai khasam visrai dargeh milai sajaa-ay.

Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord.

ਝੂਠਾ ਮਦੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਪੀਚਈ ਜੇ ਕਾ ਪਾਰਿ ਵਸਾਇ ॥

झूठा मदु मूलि न पीचई जे का पारि वसाइ ॥

jhoothaa mad mool na peech-ee jay kaa paar vasaa-ay.

Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਚੁ ਮਦੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਆਇ ॥

नानक नदरी सचु मदु पाईऐ सतिगुरु मिलै जिसु आइ ॥

naanak nadree sach mad paa-ee-ai satgur milai jis aa-ay.

O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine.

This is how strongly the Gurus were against intoxicants, similarly why should Guru Granth Sahib be taken to such a place, after all hotels and off licenses especially, make their money by selling intoxicants.

Unfortunately the Sikhi of many punjabi ppl is limited by an overlap of culture. Therefore this has resulted in ppl who, without knowing plan Anand Karaj's at hotels for convenience but which is against sacred Sikh tenets.

Our gurdwaras in the UK have no national regulatory body to whom they are accountable to. Therefore you might agree that there are some ppl in gurdwara establishments who look after their own self interest. There are also granthi's who charge their own prices for Anand Karaj's which are conducted at hotels etc....

These sort of ppl have clearly chosen money and profit over their Guru.

However the masses are clearly against this, furthermore the supreme body of the Sikhs, the Akal Takht have issued a hukamnama ruling against Guru Granth Sahib being taken to places where intoxicants are served.

The ppl in this country who stand up to beadbi come from all ages and backgrounds and understandably are not just a minority.

I apologise on behalf of many others for the threats that were made to your family. Whilst abusive language in this situation was totally not excuseable I hope you will come to better understand the other side of the argument in terms of peoples feelings toward their Guru and how they are against any beadbi.

Here is further information on the Sikh Reht maryada (code of conduct) regarding Guru Sahib

http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/gurdwara.asp

Apologies for any mistakes.

[rina]

thank you for the information you have provided. it does gove me and hopefully others a better understanding of why our guru ji should not be taken out of the Gurdwara.

i fully agree with you, i was just annoyed at the way it was dealt with. thank you for taking the time out to make me understand. knowing now i will help prevent beadbi of our guru ji as best i can, and with a wedding coming up shortly i will advise the lava to be taken at the gurdwara. i was initially upset with how it was dealt in my family, but believe you have a firm point.

once again thank you

[singh_comradz]

thank you for the information you have provided. it does gove me and hopefully others a better understanding of why our guru ji should not be taken out of the Gurdwara.

i fully agree with you, i was just annoyed at the way it was dealt with. thank you for taking the time out to make me understand. knowing now i will help prevent beadbi of our guru ji as best i can, and with a wedding coming up shortly i will advise the lava to be taken at the gurdwara. i was initially upset with how it was dealt in my family, but believe you have a firm point.

once again thank you

no probs ji, thanks for understanding :TH:

[ak1]

I would like to ask a question, how can weddings in hotels be stopped but yet there are gurdwaras which have halls, where meat and alcohol is served.

[singh_comradz]

I would like to ask a question, how can weddings in hotels be stopped but yet there are gurdwaras which have halls, where meat and alcohol is served.

you mean gurdwaras which have halls next to or opposite them?

[Golee Maro]

Forgive me for im a maha-paapi.

But something is on my mind regarding this issue...

I believe our Guru is our Helper. I believe our Guru comes to us to help us. I believe our Guru will try and help everyone no matter of how they are. I believe he even helps "manmukhs" and "paapis" like me... even if they go pubs, clubs, brothels or whatever.

So my problem with this whole "major issue" is that lets say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is taken to such a hotel where more people will be than the Gurdwara and people who do not normally go Gurdwara... doesnt Maharaj stand more chance of educating people there in a hotel than an actual Gurdwara? Sorry, i know some, if not many, will disagree. But to me, this whole world is a Gurdwara - Maharaj resides everywhere and in everyone. And i dont believe a Gurdwara is seperate from the rest of the world. Im not saying "allow Guru Jee to be taken to a pub where people are blatently smoking, eating and drinking". Im just saying that its strange because people believe God only resides in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. If a Gurdwara moves location it then seems to be ok for that to be converted into a night club or something like that.

Im sorry but i walk in the street where people smoke. My Guru is with me then. I dont believe I will be damned by being in such an environment and i dont believe if i stayed the night in a hotel on a business trip, i would be damned for that.

Sorry for my mistakes...

[rina]

[

you mean gurdwaras which have halls next to or opposite them?

no the gurdwara is in grays and has a hall in the same building in which parties are held after the lava. alchohol is served and all that seperates the guru granth sahib ji and the alchohol is a wall. i do not agree with this which led me to question why is was wrong to take our guru ji to a hotel, and yet have gurdwaras that do worse.

if action is taken for the weddings then the same should be done for issues like this. i dont mean any disrespect, but feel issues like these should be given due concern

[Heera Singh]

Forgive me for im a maha-paapi.

But something is on my mind regarding this issue...

I believe our Guru is our Helper. I believe our Guru comes to us to help us. I believe our Guru will try and help everyone no matter of how they are. I believe he even helps "manmukhs" and "paapis" like me... even if they go pubs, clubs, brothels or whatever.

So my problem with this whole "major issue" is that lets say Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is taken to such a hotel where more people will be than the Gurdwara and people who do not normally go Gurdwara... doesnt Maharaj stand more chance of educating people there in a hotel than an actual Gurdwara? Sorry, i know some, if not many, will disagree. But to me, this whole world is a Gurdwara - Maharaj resides everywhere and in everyone. And i dont believe a Gurdwara is seperate from the rest of the world. Im not saying "allow Guru Jee to be taken to a pub where people are blatently smoking, eating and drinking". Im just saying that its strange because people believe God only resides in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. If a Gurdwara moves location it then seems to be ok for that to be converted into a night club or something like that.

Im sorry but i walk in the street where people smoke. My Guru is with me then. I dont believe I will be damned by being in such an environment and i dont believe if i stayed the night in a hotel on a business trip, i would be damned for that.

Sorry for my mistakes...

Vaheguru...

I would have to disagree with you... because the people that go to the hotel are there for the wedding, not to see Guru Jee... if they had the slightest want to see Guru Jee they WOULD go to the Gurdwara... and I don't see how people would be educated? and what would they be educated on? from my own personal view, I don't think many people know the significance of the laava, and really just want to have Guru Jee there as a formality... the education should be done in a few ways... one they should want to be educated... two they should make an effort to learn... the people who are supposed to be educating them at the gurdwara's should be doing so in a way that all learn, both youngsters and elders... and also we should be educating eachother..

veerji i know what u are saying bout you walkin through a stree where people smoke.. i mean we all do... but when you say "i know my guru is with me", thats an internal thing... he's with you in soul and mind... yes God is everywhere, but our Gurus build Gurughars for a reason... they are supposed to be places of worship that have no impurities in them... Khalsa means pure, and our Guru Is purer then pure... that is why we make sure Guru jee's surroundings are as pure as possible.. Our Guru forbid alcohol and tabacco and any sort of nash for a reason... furthermore, we must respect the Panthic decision of NOT taking our Guru to such places... it is a direct order from our Highest Order, the order that Guru Hargobind Singh Jee himself built... it is also agreed upon by the vast majority of the panth, and all the panthic jattha's... so although we mite think that is okay to do, we must respect both our Guru and our Panth in this decision and NOT take our Guru Such places...

We have Maharaj Jee's saroop in our home, and try our best to treat Guru Jee with the utmost respect... my eldest brother used to bring alcohol and drugs into the house... this caused HUGE ruckus in my house when i found out... i told my mother that either he leaves the house, or I leave the house with Guru Jee... i cannot live without seeing Sree Guru Granth Sahib everyday (in the morning for parkash; during the day; at nite for sukhaasan; for paath, simran, keertan)... therefore I could not stand to see any disrespect to my Guru.. the situation was resolved and now we are all living happy... I tried to educate myself as much as possible on respect and what not... and he understood and agreed in the end... in fact, my brother stopped doing all that stuff altogether.. and this was because he wantd to be educated, he allowed me to speak to him...

anywayz.. i know i'm dragging on.. but u see my point..

Chardi Kalaa!!

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Brinderpal Singh]

its all in the hands of the sangat if we unite we will win if we go to protests people will listen if we talk to sangat and commitee people they will learn

[singh_comradz]

[

you mean gurdwaras which have halls next to or opposite them?

no the gurdwara is in grays and has a hall in the same building in which parties are held after the lava. alchohol is served and all that seperates the guru granth sahib ji and the alchohol is a wall. i do not agree with this which led me to question why is was wrong to take our guru ji to a hotel, and yet have gurdwaras that do worse.

if action is taken for the weddings then the same should be done for issues like this. i dont mean any disrespect, but feel issues like these should be given due concern

Seriously? And in the actual gurdwara aswell :lol:

Where is grays?

And do you know the name of the gurdwara aswell?