Accepting Roti From Sehajdhari Mother

[N30S1NGH]

That's hillarious. I was one of the organizers of the Mansfield camp. There was NO TAPOBAN SAHIB at that time! Hahaha This is a brilliant story!

Bhai Jeevan Singh came for one night for kirtan and did not stay the night and left right away. Some sarblohi Singhs who brought their own langar also came but stayed the night. No such incident took place. At any rate, Bhai Jeevan Singh wasn't sarblohi at this point.

This story is a PURE fabrication. Namastang, when doing so much ninda, you do the "tapobanis" such a big seva. Please continue!

I wasnt there, hell i didn't grew up my kesh then. I heard this story from a sevadarni who was there.

I dont wish to say her name.

That's hillarious. I was one of the organizers of the Mansfield camp. There was NO TAPOBAN SAHIB at that time! Hahaha This is a brilliant story!

Bhai Jeevan Singh came for one night for kirtan and did not stay the night and left right away. Some sarblohi Singhs who brought their own langar also came but stayed the night. No such incident took place. At any rate, Bhai Jeevan Singh wasn't sarblohi at this point.

This story is a PURE fabrication. Namastang, when doing so much ninda, you do the "tapobanis" such a big seva. Please continue!

I wasnt there, hell i didn't grew up my kesh then. I heard this story from a sevadarni who was there.

I dont wish to say her name.

and also you mentioned bhai sahb bhai jeevan singh ji wasnt sarblohi around that time but i meant to ask you , was he sarblohi when he came to toronto and rejected parsad from dixie gurdwara. was it parsad or langar do fill me in with year and do fill me in which gurdwara was it? i m roughly remember the details.

[heart]

Vahegurujeeekakhalsa Vahegurujeekeeefateh

My opinion on this is quite simple. We are looking at this question on more of a general level. I think the main point is, your relationship may possibly grow distant. Especially if your mother is just coming into sikhi it may affect her spirtually. Alot of sikhs who are starting out on the path of gursikhi learn the fundamentals of living a gursikhi lifestyle first. Your job is to also bring her closer to gursikhi as you have already taken that step of taking the holy amrit. So in this way slowely you can educate her on the aspect of keeping bibek if you wish to in the future and hope that she catches onto the idea. Alot of the time when kids do something sudden parents tend to back away or say something; so slowely start talking about it.

Bull chaak maaph

Vahegurujeeekakhalsa Vahegurujeekeeefateh

[Singh132]

I wasnt there, hell i didn't grew up my kesh then. I heard this story from a sevadarni who was there.

I dont wish to say her name.

As I said, I was one of the organizers of this retreat in September 2001. I had just started keeping bibek in August but was not sarblohi at the time. Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib was opened in August of 2002. It didn't exist at the time of the story you've given. The Singhs who kept sarbloh bibek had brought their langar with them and so there was no need to cook for them. Bhai Jeevan Singh arrived in the afternoon and did kirtan at the evening divaan. He left right after that. Being an organizer, I'd be aware of any controversies. None of this nature took place that were brought to my attention. The story iteself doesn't make any sense. The bibian made langar, which wasn't accepted and then to console themselves they started distributing candies to children? I don't even see the link. This is further complicated by the fact that this was an 16+ retreat so how many little children would be running around?

Bhai Jeevan Singh was a sarblohi Singh but became unable to keep this rehit because of his travels. He told everyone around himi that sarbloh bibek was an important rehit and encouraged them to keep it. The story of his reject parshaad is as follows

Bhai Jeevan Singh jee's 1978 Canada Tour & Controversy

From Soora Feb 1979

Translated by Admin www.tapoban.org

Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh jee was one of the first Gursikhs who did parchaar of tat-

Gurmat in Canada and helped bring people into a Sikh way of life. In 1978, Bhai Sahib

visited Toronto and a controversy erupted when he refused to take parshaad or langar in

the Gurdvara. Khalsa Samaachaar newspaper and Toronto's "Pardesi Punjab" condemned

Bhai Sahib for this "violation" of Gurmat. Bhai Sahib was then a Hazooree Ragee at

Patna Sahib and the accusation was leveled that Bhai Sahib does not eat Karah Parshaad

nor takes Langar. It was also said that Bhai Sahib was doing "different" amrit sinchaars

which were not normally done in the Panth i.e. insisting on keskee as kakaar and doing

naam driR.

Here's what the Soora magazine had to say about the entire issue:

*********

Respected Sardaar Jeeo (editor of Khalsa Samaachaar),

We are astonished to see that a learned man like you, without knowing the truth, in

Khalsa Samachaar's December 28, 1978 issue published the news that Bhai Jeevan

Singh's not accepting Parshaad and Langar is against Gurmat.

Before publishing this, did you even try to find out why Bhai Jeevan Singh jee, while

preaching in Canada does not accept parshaad in those people's langar?

According to the Gurmat Rehit Maryada, the langar prepared by a patit or nonamritdhaaree

is not acceptable and this food cannot be called "Guru Kaa Langar".

In "Nirguneearaa" 1977, Prof. Pooran Singh jee writes in the article "Satguru's Divine

Langar":

"In the Baba's langar, there is not un-touchability over caste and class, but this langar is

hidden from plain view. This is the langar of an Emperor. Not just anybody (Lundee

Buchee) can come here…"tithay jodh maahbal soor" Guru's totally prepared Singhs who

are tyaar-bar-tyaar, are the Soldiers (workers) here" etc.

The meaning of this writing is that in the Pangat (area where langar is eaten) there is no

caste or class distinction or discrimination, but in preparing the langar, it is the Guru's

specific maryada that not just anyone can prepare the langar. For this task, it is necessary

to be "guru vala" or amritdhaaree.

That is the Guru's Langar where the food's preparers and servers are Guru's Singhs.

"Vaydeenaa(n) kee dostee vaydeenaa(n) kaa khaaN" i.e. according to the Guru's orders

eating the food of those without the Faith is restricted in Gurmat. According to the Sikh

Rehit Maryada, a Sikh should have food and social relations with other Sikhs only.

We've found out that Bhai Jeevan Singh jee in last year's Canada tour did keertan in a

Gurdvara. After the keertan, that Gurdvara's Committee President was about to give Bhai

Sahib a Siropa. That President was a Patit Sikh with no kesh or beard. Bhai Sahib in the

Deevan said "Daas cannot accept a Siropa from the hands of a Patit Sikh, so please

forgive Daas for this."

The disease of Patit-ism is very big in Canada and many Gurdvara organisers are Patits.

In this situation, if Bhai Jeevan Singh jee refused to eat the parshaad of a Patit individual,

then this is following the Guru's orders. Is it a crime to remain steadfast in Gurmat Rehit

and obey the Guru's orders?

If our other preachers and ragis in an attitude of greed go to those countries and eat the

food of these sharabee-kababee (meat/liquor consuming) patit individuals, it does not

mean that one should start pointless propaganda against such a person who remains firm

in Gurmat maryada and refuses to eat this food. We can expect this from the patit

individuals but it's beyond our understanding when a Panthic Newspaper does this

propoganda.

It's regrettable you haven't bothered to know the truth about how Bhai Jeevan Singh has

gone there without any greed and is humbly preaching Gursikhi. So we request you try to

find out the reality and make the Sangat aware of this reality and Gurmat.

Soora Parivar

**********

Despite all the controversy and pressure, Bhai Jeevan Singh jee remained firm in his

bibek, and took a stand, even where it alienated some people who refused to accept or

understand Gurmat. This episode teaches us that no matter what, we must take a stand

when it comes to following the rehit of Guru Sahib.

[N30S1NGH]

As I said, I was one of the organizers of this retreat in September 2001. I had just started keeping bibek in August but was not sarblohi at the time. Gurdwara Tapoban Sahib was opened in August of 2002. It didn't exist at the time of the story you've given. The Singhs who kept sarbloh bibek had brought their langar with them and so there was no need to cook for them. Bhai Jeevan Singh arrived in the afternoon and did kirtan at the evening divaan. He left right after that. Being an organizer, I'd be aware of any controversies. None of this nature took place that were brought to my attention. The story iteself doesn't make any sense. The bibian made langar, which wasn't accepted and then to console themselves they started distributing candies to children? I don't even see the link....

Bhai Jeevan Singh was a sarblohi Singh but became unable to keep this rehit because of his travels. He told everyone around himi that sarbloh bibek was an important rehit and encouraged them to keep it. The story of his reject parshaad is as follows

I am sure such story took place if tapoban didnt existed around that time, i am sure story has to do something with bibeki singhs if not tapobani singhs from tapoban who refused take langar by non keski wearing bibi yet bhai sahib bhai jevan singh ji asked for candy from this bibi so that they dont feel like crap which they did thanks to bibeki singhs according to her story.. this bibi who told me this incident was very sincere when she told me.. .. i ll get more details will pm you when i get it, let me know what exactly detail you want me to get?

[Singh132]

I am sure such story took place if tapoban didnt existed around that time, i am sure story has to do something with bibeki singhs if not tapobani singhs from tapoban who refused take langar by non keski wearing bibi yet bhai sahib bhai jevan singh ji asked for candy from this bibi so that they dont feel like crap which they did thanks to bibeki singhs according to her story.. this bibi who told me this incident was very sincere when she told me.. .. i ll get more details will pm you when i get it, let me know what exactly detail you want me to get?

It's not a question of *IF* Tapoban Sahib existed, it's a fact. It didn't.

I agree with your sentiment that if a Bibeki Singh is going to refuse food, then it should be done delicately and so that the other person doesn't feel bad. The feelings of others should be considered very important in all dealings. Most bibekis go out of their way to make sure no one feels bad about their rehit. But accommodation is a two-way street and if someone just refuses to understand or accept that rehit, what can be done?

[Bhujangan]

It is the individual choice of whether someone wants to keep bibek or not, but to put it down as extemist is not the best way to describe guru sahib's rehit. It is indeed true that the LOVE a person has for God is what matters, but I think a rehitdharee, naam abhiyasee Singh has way more love because they are actually doing what GUru Sahib wanted his Sikhs to do, then someone who has not yet taken the first step towards guru sahib.

Taking amrit is the first step. An amritdharee is not perfect, because taking amrit is just initition into the school of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Many of us have this impression that when a person amrit schhuks, they can no longer commit any mistakes, and are automatically free from the five bikaars. This is not true, THe difference is that they have STARTED to work on perfecting themselves, while those that have not taken this step have yet to do so.

As for Bhai Jeevan Singh Ji, they admit themselves that although they have stopped keeping bibek, this rehit is very important for a Sikh. If you ever talk to them about bibek, they will always encourage, and never discourage you from keeping it.

[Kumi2]

it is ok as long as u know what ur mom does if she does any of the kierahits then try not to but if she safe then go ahead i still do when ever i get the chance. if u can eat at the gurdwara then u can eat at home cus u dont know who makes ur food there

tapoban singh are off the hook mann i wish they would migrate to the uk i.e birmingham i love them man they are wikedddd

[Guest gurpreet_singh101]

it is ok as long as u know what ur mom does if she does any of the kierahits then try not to but if she safe then go ahead i still do when ever i get the chance. if u can eat at the gurdwara then u can eat at home cus u dont know who makes ur food there

tapoban singh are off the hook mann i wish they would migrate to the uk i.e birmingham i love them man they are wikedddd

u shud not eat from your mother she has not took amrit full stop this is not rehat.

start making ur own food we need self-discipline and strict rehat

Rehat pyari mujh ko, Sikh Pyara Nahe

The sikh discipline is more valuable to me than a so called sikh who has no rehat

Rehat bina ne sikh khavae, rehat bin dar chota kava

without the sikh discipline(rehat) call not yourself a sikh, without sikh rehat, at court of god you shall be punished

[Kumi2]

it is ok as long as u know what ur mom does if she does any of the kierahits then try not to but if she safe then go ahead i still do when ever i get the chance. if u can eat at the gurdwara then u can eat at home cus u dont know who makes ur food there

tapoban singh are off the hook mann i wish they would migrate to the uk i.e birmingham i love them man they are wikedddd

u shud not eat from your mother she has not took amrit full stop this is not rehat.

start making ur own food we need self-discipline and strict rehat

Rehat pyari mujh ko, Sikh Pyara Nahe

The sikh discipline is more valuable to me than a so called sikh who has no rehat

Rehat bina ne sikh khavae, rehat bin dar chota kava

without the sikh discipline(rehat) call not yourself a sikh, without sikh rehat, at court of god you shall be punished

well some of us are that ck like others and pluss if u eat at the gurdwara why shouldnt u from ur mother aslong as she dont any kierahits

[TheVampire]

bunch of brahmins!

in fact worse than brahmins!

purity is measured by devotion to God.

not by who cooked the roti.