Are Ravidassia's Sikhs Or A Cult?

[Manchester_Sikhi 1]

But you see, to ME Ravidas is a Bhagat....but others would probably not view him that way. To be honest, I think most people...even the elderly, KNOW that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is THE Guru...but would probably only refer to Bhagat Ravidass as a Guru by name only but without the feeling that the title Guru bestows upon the GGSJ.

This isn't the fault of a particular GROUP of people, its the problem of individuals who create that group...a group is not homogenous...its heterogenous...and the problems with the caste thing isnt just a Ravidas issue...its a whole Sikhi issue that has been created from our parents and grandparents and its really upto us as the next generation to teach our kids of the unity of man and therefore do away with this catse ideology setup by our forfathers. It's as simple as that.

It's something that ISNT going to be sorted out in our generation but I'm sure eventually over time it's something WE can get rid off.

But to view those followes of a particular 'group' within Sikhi as 'bad', is very much akin to the way some of us view caste and actually follow caste....enough of the discrimination and ill thought, more of the love, pyar, seva, sangat and mainly to ensure we teach our kids the true meaning of Sikhi...Ek Onkar and Ekta

[KH4L1$T4N1 16]

its OUR fault that the people of the "chammar" caste have their own guru Ghars, despite one of the objectives of the Singh Sabha movement was to accept the "low castes" into the the same Gurudwaras as everyone else

[Guest Papi]

its OUR fault that the people of the "chammar" caste have their own guru Ghars, despite one of the objectives of the Singh Sabha movement was to accept the "low castes" into the the same Gurudwaras as everyone else

[KharkooSingh 1]

its OUR fault that the people of the "chammar" caste have their own guru Ghars, despite one of the objectives of the Singh Sabha movement was to accept the "low castes" into the the same Gurudwaras as everyone else

True. The shortcomings we have around us are a direct result of our own shortcomings. Our lack of acceptance of caste/regional driven differences despite our Guru ji’s teachings have today created caste affiliated Gurdwaras. If that’s not a slap in our face then I don’t know what is! We can blame our forefathers but truth is we are still allowing these practices and differences to exist by accepting a Gurdwara as a Ramgharia or Chamar Gurdwara. If our Jagat Guru resides in that Gurdwara than it is our responsibility to look after that Gurdwara regardless of what caste background the committee people claim to be. They won’t change but we need to change. We should be doing sewa in the Gurdwaras where these problems exist, not disowning them.

[Pakandi baba 153]

Gur Fateh Khalsa jio

My points....

1 - Those that decided to name Gurdwaras after castes need a good kick in the head (elders obviously)

2 - Those that break away from Sikhi and use it against Sikhi need some as above

3 - Those (elders again) who teach youngsters lke me that caste matters also need a taste fo the same. Mainly from the youth who have idiotic family members.

Some people in my own family say caste matters, then they are not practicng Sikhi, so i have jolly good fun confronting them and they have no choice but to back away from me! Hehe, but does make them change their view? Sadly no! - But we as the youth can change this!

IMPLEMENT INTO SOCIETY WHAT THE KHALSA WAS SUPPOSED TO!

Gr Fateh!

[KharkooSingh 1]

IMPLEMENT INTO SOCIETY WHAT THE KHALSA WAS SUPPOSED TO!

The pakhandi baba has said it! We have the power to drop the "caste" in Sikh culture, it's up to us to action that. By sitting silently and accepting the error, we are not solving the problem, we are part of the problem!

[Pakandi baba 153]

IMPLEMENT INTO SOCIETY WHAT THE KHALSA WAS SUPPOSED TO!

The pakhandi baba has said it! We have the power to drop the "caste" in Sikh culture, it's up to us to action that. By sitting silently and accepting the error, we are not solving the problem, we are part of the problem!

Of course we are! - You get 'Jinda jatt' this you get jinda jatt that....more like jinda pratt! - We need to speak against all those Gurdwaras that have caste outside the entrances. - Lets start a revival of the cure Sikh faith, and get this show on the road sisters and brothers.

Gur Fateh![/b]

[KharkooSingh 1]

IMPLEMENT INTO SOCIETY WHAT THE KHALSA WAS SUPPOSED TO!

The pakhandi baba has said it! We have the power to drop the "caste" in Sikh culture, it's up to us to action that. By sitting silently and accepting the error, we are not solving the problem, we are part of the problem!

Of course we are! - You get 'Jinda jatt' this you get jinda jatt that....more like jinda pratt! - We need to speak against all those Gurdwaras that have caste outside the entrances. - Lets start a revival of the cure Sikh faith, and get this show on the road sisters and brothers.

Gur Fateh![/b]

Speaking against the Gurdwaras with caste signboards will only alienate them more. The Gurdwaras came about due to a mixture or egos and alienation of sub communities. The way to break the system is to enter the system and break it from within. We should be sitting in their sangats, making a Khalsa presence! We should be doing kirtan on their stages, sewa in the langer halls and interacting with the people who think they are a part of their "caste" community only. Part of the problem is that we as Khalsa do not venture out, we stay congested in our comfort Gurdwaras.

[Guest militant singh]

the only 'caste gurdwareh i knw of are ramgharia and ravidas - y name after caste 4?

[Guest Papi]

from what i understand these "raamgharia's" and "chamaar's" are not allowed to be part of committes run by "jatts". discrimination on caste is the basic problem

[Guest militant singh]

well ramgharia cliam singh sabha is jattan dah gurdwara but there are non jatts there 2 so there point has no basis the ramgharia are the 1's in the wrong u dnt c no jatt sabha or anything like tht but u see SINGH SABHA as it should be 4 all singhs - people hve 4gotne we are all sikh

[Surajsingh 0]

I used to oppose the idea of having separate Gurudwara on the basis of individual's caste but with time I’ve changed my views because think it makes sense. The Gurudwara Sahibs are controlled by human beings and not all are inclined to have Sikhism philosphy but their own Bhai-chara - waad or tribal preferences. These Ravidassi were ridiculed in mainstream Sikh Gurudrwars and in western countries people discriminated against them. Also not all who visit Ravidas Temple are so-called Chamar but all types of caste ( So called upper and lower) background people visit.

I visit their Sikh temples sometimes in my city and I do not belong to their community. If they have chosen that path then that’s their own choice but who am I to criticize them when our own Sikhs ( The ones consider themselves high castes within Sikhs) have discriminated against them with their caste pride mind.

You should visit their Temples and try to make it liberal that way they will come back in mainstream. I think they need guidance and love of true Sikhism values.

The only problem I have with so-called Punjabi chamars is that they are feeding Hindu Chamar’s propaganda who were discriminated by upper caste Hindu castes in past time. Punjabi Chamar was living in Punjab working for landlord communities and getting labor money for their labor and faced discrimination and poor treatment by landlord communities. So, it doesn’t make any sense for them to be in national movement but regional movement and fight back against injustice.

[Akali 2]

GuruFateh!

I was born into a 'Chamaar' family and was brought up in the fashion of believing that Bhagat Ravidass was Guru Ravidass. However, as I got older, I started to delve into religion with my own eyes and learn things for myself and not just what my parents, family and chamaar kom were saying. As I started going into the fold of Sikhi, I realised that a lot of what I had been told whilst growing up was against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib. Chammar have taken a more of a political stance where they do not know much about Bhagat Ravidass's bani but add their own rubbish and believe that. Examples:

1. Jaikara is 'Bole So Nirbai, Shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai, Bole So Nihaal, Sat Sri Akal.' We all know that this jaikara has had things added to the front.

2. Many so-called Ravidassia say they are not Sikhs and not Hindu's but are somewhere in the middle.

As someone who was born into this community, let me say what I believe:

1. Bhagat Ravidass is a Bhagat, not a Guru. Guru Nanak was the first Guru because Waheguru chose him to bring forth the religion of Sikhi, therefore making Nanak into Guru Nanak.

2. Jaikara and Ardass should not be changed from what they are supposed to be.

3. I am a Sikh. To me, people who call themselves Ravidassia and do not associate with Sikhi are lost of the true path. The reason for this is that Bhagat Ravidass's bani is in the Guru Granth Sahib so how are we not Sikhs?

I would like to hear the views of the sangat.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[hps62 0]

I would like to hear the views of the sangat.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Sikhism is for whole of mankind be it muslims, christians , hindus , jains or buddhist. What to talk of Chamars who form the back bone of sikhism.

Sikhi is a fusion religion of sort that is it makes people see the underlying unity in all the home sapiens.

The chamars are having a complex due to there poor will to advertize themselves way other sikhs groups do .

I had suggest that they to start makiig

songs / picture / soldiers / like " Putt chamra de " version and rest we all Gursikhs will stand by your side and sing with you and all of us will be damned proud of it that chamars are one amongst us.

Sikhi is the religion of under dogs ; it gives individual / community a sense of self confidence to stand upto any kind or form of oppression.

so proudly say ----- " Putt chamara de will one day chak de phattte". :TH: :T:

love

hps jalandhar Gursikh

[Akali 2]

I would like to hear the views of the sangat.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Sikhism is for whole of mankind be it muslims, christians , hindus , jains or buddhist. What to talk of Chamars who form the back bone of sikhism.

Sikhi is a fusion religion of sort that is it makes people see the underlying unity in all the home sapiens.

The chamars are having a complex due to there poor will to advertize themselves way other sikhs groups do .

I had suggest that they to start makiig

songs / picture / soldiers / like " Putt chamra de " version and rest we all Gursikhs will stand by your side and sing with you and all of us will be damned proud of it that chamars are one amongst us.

Sikhi is the religion of under dogs ; it gives individual / community a sense of self confidence to stand upto any kind or form of oppression.

so proudly say ----- " Putt chamara de will one day chak de phattte". :TH: :T:

love

hps jalandhar Gursikh

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding this member but what will you get out of Putt Chamara de? If you are a Gursikh, why keep caste alive? I used chamaar and Ravidassia in my post in order to get my message across so people won't think that its just another Sikh saying things about chamaar etc. I am from that community but I don't have a 'complex' the way you are saying.