Fanatics/ Extermists In Sikhism?

[Sarbloh]

Today, if someone thinks Hinduism or Islam or another group are threats to their “shape” of Sikhi, then in time Maharaj gives them to the Budhi to realise something else. I don’t think we are experiencing a wave of extremism or “katar pauna” as much as a wave of naivety and confusion. It’s all part of our maturing process. In time we will realise there is no monopoly on Sikhi, Maharaj termed the Khalsa as “Sanjha” (everyones). If we are “Akal Purakh Ki Fauj”, then how can we discriminate against anyone

Sach kahon sun leho sabai jin prem kio tin hee prabh paio.

All should listen to this truth that only those who love God can realize Him.

Guru Ji’s Sikh does not enforce his opinion on anyone, Guru Ji’s Sikhs wins them over with his “reni” and “beni”. The latter is harder but the former is so much easier. Sould a Sikh be “katar” because surely that’s what Arungzeb was!?

karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door.

According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away.

We all come in to this life with our karam and some of us will be closer to Maharaj and some will be far, far away. Many of us see things others cannot but it all depends on how you get your point across, it’s debatable whether an “amount of force” is justifiable when it comes to enforcing a religious point. On that special day in 1699 Maharaj asked for 5 volunteers in a sangat of 80,000 who were willing to give their head, Maharaj gave an option to the sangat, Maharaj did not enforce the amrit upon everyone. When the Chali Muktay decided to retreat from the battle of Muktasar, Maharaj did not denounce them, He gave them the option.

aap aapni budhi hai jaiti barnt bhinun bhinun taiti tumra lkha na jaeh psara keh bidhi prthm sunsara.

Every one according to his understanding, describes You differently. The limits of Your creation cannot be known, nor how in the beginning You wrought the Universes.

We need to accept each and everyone is at different levels and as Maharaj tells according to our understanding we will all be describing Sri Akal Purakh differently. It is only through prem and pyar that someones opinion will change indefinetly.

[N30S1NGH]

Extermism- This term can be used in good intentions ie- i m in love with my guru to an extereme, obession. This term just like any other term can be over abused and has hijacked by sharia panthis when they interpret metaphor arths of gurbani to an literal one. Tut Tut to all the die hard core fans of prof sahib singh, example- he is only say in sikh academics. They also will go to extend to pick and choose things from the history which suits their agenda , ignore the rest and make their own "gurmat home made recipe" and pass that as "Tat Khalsa Maryada".

Fanatic- This term has more negative connations to it, sikh fanaticism commonly corresponds to individuals who have 24/7 have hatred against hindus have hindu phobia syndrome, sant phobia syndrome in them, devi/devta phobia syndrome in them. They would go any extend if they were given chances ie- death threats to anyone who disagee with them to killing monaie for not keeping kesh (reffering to those wah abi sikhs who killed monaie for not keeping kesh back in late 1980's)

there would be no "hindu-phobia" if there wasnt any biparwaad in Sikhs

I can counter-attack that point by saying how come there is no western phobia in the panth, most of us follow western life style in the panth like- wear jeans, wear deodrant, even wear hoddies oooooooooh wait a minute- westernwad you are not sikh..lol

Ok here is more serious one, nanaksahi calendars whats that? its based on christian mat dates, yet new hybrid sikhi has no issues with it.

Its understandable, rituals like jots, cocunuts, tilak are accepted by puratan samparda's because sikh dharam orginated from india, other eastern religions like buddhism and janism also have these rituals but what you do new age sikhi accepting christian, western and sceintific values? what explaination do you have? have you kept sikhi 100 % standalone sikhi? next time you take shower, dont use deodrant, wear kurta pajama or chola when you go out, dont wear hoddies, don't count months, years in christian mat but in gurmat in form of punjabi. can you do all that? if you could then preach otherwise take it somewhere else, from the looks new age sikhs are more guilty of adapting western, christian, sceintific vlaues compare to puratan sikhs which never adapted but grew up in indian classical culture.

[Hardeep__singh]

Great post guys.

Fanaticism/talabanism is growing problem within sikh youth circles especially in UK. I am based in canada, i even heard from people there, that there are sikh gangs in uk known as AK-47- Allah Killers. If thats a case, these people are not deserved to be sikhs, they should shave their heads and join the gothic culture where they can fullfill their demonic aims.

Allah Killers????? How can you kill god or even attempt to have that thought? Thats new to me

Thats what i heard from this singhani on sikhportal forum, apparently they are talking about this kinda same thing.

I live in the UK and never heard of them! hmmmm

[Jkaur89]

I think the opening thread was abit superficial.

In terms of extremists and fanatic sikhs, what do we actually mean?

Obviously you are talking of this issue due to your experiences, please give examples of events or things you have witnessed that make this question arise in your mind?

And when we talk about the "youth" who are supposedly 'extreme' and need to be 'suppressed' who are we actually talking about and what do they do that makes you say they are extreme?

Questions open to everyone thread here?

What i mean is in terms of hinduphobia not being open-minded to other peoples views e.g jathas (may not come under extermisim but still is a problem)

going over the top with some things e.g with were u eat? what type of people u associate with etc... sikhs are only alowed to do sangat of other gursikhs etc...

How can can u say that ppl are going 'over the top' with some things like where they eat and what type of ppl they associate with! just cos they have different rehat to u, doesn't mean they are going over the top! thats ur opinion and i think that ppl who u say 'go over the top' just have a stricter rehat, which shudnt be portrayed as wrong. they are not goin over the top, theyre just tryin to do what they think is right 4 themselves, i say well done them. where u eat or who u eat from and who u associate with can have an effect on ur sikhi, thats why some ppl r strict when it comes to these things... i wuldn't call it being 'over the top' though.

i dont no how this is a problem, just cos one person is sarbloh bibeki etc, how is it affectin u?? The best way to do parchar of sikhi is to lead by example. and u said 'all jathas are not open-minded to other peoples views'...lets not make assumptions here.

[Hardeep__singh]

I would like to comment, whether western or eastern, what ever you wear or dont wear as long as you know your serving the god and are amritdhari sikh of Guru ji, then there should be no fear to adopt western values or even eastern values, I guess this goes for non-amritdharis too.

Wearing a kurta pyjama wont make you any better, wearing a certain style pugh or any clothing wont make you a better person, what would make you better is staying away from Kam, krodh, Lobh, Moh and Hankaar! If you can stay away from these things, then western or eatern values dont even come in to it.

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

[AK-47]

Sarbloh while i agree with most of what you said, the following is incorrect from my understanding.

When the Chali Muktay decided to retreat from the battle of Muktasar, Maharaj did not denounce them, He gave them the option.

The chali mukthe left maharajh from anandpur sahib before the battle of muktsar. Yes you right maharajh gave them the option, but then maharajh DID denounce them. he made them write that 'we are not yor sikhs, and you are not our guru' on a document called the 'vadawa'. this was the condition they had to comply with in order to leave guru ji. at muktsar they returned to guru ji and fought for him, it was at this stage that guru ji ripped up their 'vadawa' and re-accepted them as his sikhs.

so yes while guru ji gives us an option, he also makes clear the consequences of that option. we cant have it both ways, if we make the wrong choice, then we will suffer for it.

I would add thought that I don’t believe it is ‘anti-islam’ or ‘anti-hinduism’ which affects some people. It is more the practitioners of these faiths, or should I say so-called practitioners. When people look at ‘muslims’ talking about fire, hell and punishment for the infidels etc then people will dislike that muslim individual. It is not allah they hate, but the person. When sikh boys are picked on by muslim boys and their older brothers etc, it is not islam, but the people who claim to be of that faith that they hate/dislike. Same goes for Hinduism, it is the people guilty of crimes that people dislike not the faith. Unfortunetly as a result of lack of control of the 5 vices our vision and boundries get foggy and our minds turn dislike of certain people into a dislike for ALL people of that background.

And given the modern climate we live in, people from the Islamic and hindu backgrounds are causing trouble for Sikhs. However, that doesn’t mean we attack all muslims or all hindus, that is not the sikh way. Each faith is free to practice the way it likes, and no faith should force its views or infringe on the practice of another.

Finally, people who are in their own little comfort zones will always call those that ‘rock the boat’ trouble makers/fanatics etc, however if by doing good one gets called names, then that should not stop you from doing good. A lot is learnt from experience and sangat of elder (and younger) gursikhs. Rather than turn against those of us that get ‘red-eyes’ and call them names, we should listen to them, talk to them and explain where necessary. If not we are only displaying our own ego and fanaticism against them. And that will be a loose loose situation.

[Sarbloh]

Sarbloh while i agree with most of what you said, the following is incorrect from my understanding.

When the Chali Muktay decided to retreat from the battle of Muktasar, Maharaj did not denounce them, He gave them the option.

The chali mukthe left maharajh from anandpur sahib before the battle of muktsar. Yes you right maharajh gave them the option, but then maharajh DID denounce them. he made them write that 'we are not yor sikhs, and you are not our guru' on a document called the 'vadawa'. this was the condition they had to comply with in order to leave guru ji. at muktsar they returned to guru ji and fought for him, it was at this stage that guru ji ripped up their 'vadawa' and re-accepted them as his sikhs.

so yes while guru ji gives us an option, he also makes clear the consequences of that option. we cant have it both ways, if we make the wrong choice, then we will suffer for it.

.

Thank you for correcting me.

[hps62]

I do not know east or west stuff.

Our gurus were universal in their thinking and there for proclaimed in there message of

" Nanak Nam chadi Kala tere bana sarvat tha bhalla "

I can see the same light of God in Newton , Einstein , Birds , Snakes and Osama bin laden.

All of them are sikhs and non sikhs at same time by different definition and how we decide to see in them.

I am how ever quite impressd by Newtons 3 law

which in english language means

" As you show so shall you reap "

Nazis , al Queda sowed hatred and get back hatred .

Christ , Nanak , Buddha preached love and are loved by millions around the world.

love

hps

[Sarbloh]

General question to all. Do you see sharda or beadbi in the following pictures?

[Tony Montana]

General question to all. Do you see sharda or beadbi in the following pictures?

my personaly view cud do without the pictures the people reading bani is ok if u ask me