Sikh Propaganda

[dalsingh101]

Ok some fair comments are being made all around.

First thing Sikhs need to stop using incorrect vocabulary to describe the sitaution. Those directly coerced (forced) into Islam are rare. The people doing this are usually way to subtle and smart for this in the UK. So stop using words liked "forced conversions" full stop!

Secondly those idiots (from the SIkh side) who talk to the media (radio, tv etc.) and are largely incoherent wafflers need to stop. This has done so much damage it is unbelievable. They (white meda) will make you look stupid if you don't have direct evidence and even pulling out a case or two and trying to make out it is an epidemic will blow up in your face. Just face it, goray do NOT care and will make us all look like fools and savages any chance they get. Unless you are doing something with a big English/British flag plastered over you (i.e. Monty Panesar). The police have already said they have no evidence of these forced conversions or grooming....as far as they are concerned it doesn't happen. For those whose families do convert, usually they are way too ashamed to highlight this fact.

What is true from my experiences is that Sikh girls ARE targeted for relationships and sexual activities. It doesn't help that so many have given an impression that this pursuit will be rewarded quickly. The fact is, go anywhere on a Friday night and see plenty of skimpyly clad, out on the town, promiscuous "Sikh" girls. Don't deny it. It is our own communities liberalness that makes this happen. It isn't about to stop.

Finally, stop saying, a Muslim problem! It isn't! The vast majority of Palestinians, Iraqi, Iranian and many other Muslims don't bother with this. Those that do are usually (95%) from a P'stani background. So there is no need to turn it into a massive thing like all sullay are involved. Usually it is just Ps.

Finally, for all of the hippy, cuddly, pajama joke Singhs (Lions my a rse!), it is really you who are responsible. You talk your gandoo wishy washy crap and make us look like weak clowns. No wonder those people are taking advantage. You also demasculanise yourselves by hiding behind an aura of spirituality. No wonder women leave to be with someone more manly. Personally I think these people are as much responsible for this situation as the people targeting the kurian.

[humkire]

dal singh jee ,no sikh should be looking down on another sikh calling him,quoting you '''( hippy, cuddly, pajama joke Singhs (Lions my a rse!))'''' . thats not the language of a son of GURU GOBIND SINGH and those words should never be used by one sikh on another on a sikh website .its disgraceful ,insulting and degrading ,so watch your words if you are a khalsa .you criticise others of '''gandoo wishy washy crap''',but thats exactly the style of the language you used in your post.

coming back to the points you made ,stop trying to judge the vocabulary of other brother and sister sikhs .as a sikh your responsibility is to try to listen and understand to other sikhs concerns ,not judge them to be incorrect .wat statistics do you have to be able to say that forced conversions are 'rare'.have you forgotten sikh history and wat we have had to put up with from day one .have you forgotten the thousands and thousands of sikhs including GURU TEGH BAHADUR and 4 SAHIBZADAS who had to choose between matyrdom and conversion ?the tale only continues because of whats inherent in the common interpretation of islam and its history as i have pointed out earlier .stop calling brother sikhs incoherent wafflers .i am 49 and because of the business i run, probably more connected to more white ppl than you can imagine .i can tell you unreservedly that after wat has happened terror wise during the last few years ,gorey do sympathise and do see the point and trust wat we share on white media ,and dont see us as wafflers ,fools or savages but as another victimised community .wat statistics do you have that they have created unbelievable damage ?infact they have created an awareness that there is a difference between sikhs and muslims tho we may look alike to some extent .maybe you are just being too hostile ,negative and aggressive and emo towards your own sikh brothers and sisters .

stop blaming sikh girls promiscuity as the cause of their problems .thats very very rude of you and very sexist .every sikh has his or her own journey to make to GURUJEE,and at every stage of their journey they are to be supported ,prayed for and loved ,not judged disrespectfully.any girl ,leave alone a sikh girl ,should be able to go out ,and socialise in the way the choose without being targetted .yes a girl may dress in a way inappropiate to khalsa dress ,yes she may go out to enjoy a techno or d n b or hip hop night ,because she is yet to develop a close relationship to GURUJEE,but she may be a pure hearted person and not neccessarily promiscous ,and no one has the right to either judge her or target her .

and the reason why other communities of muslims are not involved in this,at this point of time is geographical because sikhs and pakistanis live in close proximity in many towns in uk ,whereas a lot of other mid -eastern and african immigration is relatively newer and to other towns such as cardiff ,bristol ,brighton ,london in their own sub-culture conclaves where they are slowly gaining confidence and roots .my own experiences in malaysia,and elsewhere , show that the problems associated with islamist conversions are not confined to pakistani muslims .

my advice is for you to be polite in the language you use on the internet ,even wen you dont agree with others views ,to be decent ,to be understanding ,to be sympathatic and caring .sikhs have enough sense generally to work at their own pace towards the ideal of sant sipahi ,so its not yur place to be accusing anyone of indulging in spirituality bereft of masculinity .further you wat makes you so paranoid that the alerter of the problem is also the causer of it as u seemed to have stated in your final sentence.

if a sikh decides to wear the traditional sikh dress complete with pyjama ,adorn a dumalla or turban ,be baptised ,and be a sant sipahi ,show concerns for the problems facing his community ,he is to be loved and praised ,not condemned .he is the perfect image of a masculine warrior ,(better than any waxed ,tanned greek god looking figure) ,for he is the perfect image of manhood at its climax and peak adored by every wise woman .its those sikhs who GURU JEE has always chosen for the ultimate victory of the panth at every point of stress and danger in its history .

so be wisely informed

[proactive]

Humkire

Some very wise words there brother! What we are seeing on this forum is the various strands of Sikh views which are pretty much mirrored in the general society, although Sikhs thankfully, due to our history are much more clued up on what Islam and Muslims are really about. Having faced a century of genocide from Muslims since the birth of the Khalsa and then another round of killings in 1947 does make a community wonder whether the religious beliefs of the persecutors have something to do the way they have been acting.

The views of Sikhs which are-;

1. The lax, liberal, george galloway following 'respect' party supporters, ranj and sunny hundal types.

These people have been brainwashed by the liberal media like the BBC and the Guardian into thinking that the Muslims are victims whereas the truth is that in 99% of all cases the Muslims are the aggressors. These people have emasculated themselves by their own hands and think that by taking a, in their view rational non-violent approach to the Muslim problem will work wonders. Any victory for Muslims is seen as a victory of the victims by them, they are the types who went around with 'We are all Hazbollah Now' signs after the Hazbollah-Israel war last year. They are the 'America deserved 9/11' brigade. Most of them might have had a history of struggles against the National Front in the 70s and 80s and because at that time the 'asians' were united they still think that the 'asian unity' slogan can still act as a unifier of the communities. They fail to understand that much has happened since the 70s and 80s and the Muslims with their increased population are much more aggressive. In fact the Muslims pretty much disowned the 'asian' tag around the time of the satanic verses affair. They fail to understand that Muslim behaviour depends on what percentage they constitute in the local population. If there's only a few Muslim families then they will be the best behaved and most friendly people around. Get some more Muslims moving in and then their attitude changes. In the 80s most Sikhs in west london had no problem with Muslims and the problems with forced conversions were a midlands problem. Now that the Muslims have increased in west london then the problem has started here as well. Some Canadian and American Sikhs also come under this type mainly because they live in areas where Muslims are a small minority. To them I would say, just wait a few years and with more Muslim immigration and see how your pro-Muslim views change.

2. The Khalistani Anti-Hindu type.

This is personified by people like Sarpanch and Militant. I have a great deal of respect for their Khalistan beliefs since they constitute the new generation of Sikh nationalism but what irks me sometimes is the fact that the anti-Hindu attitude is all consuming and is not measured. No true Khalistani can be anti-Hindu, yes Khalistani like myself are anti-India. Their anti-Hindu attitude makes them overlook all Muslim activities against Sikhs. These guys I assume are too young to know that one of the reasons that the Khalistan movement received its setback was the help provided to India by Benazir Bhutto against the movement. Pakistan's aid is just there for it to cause problems for India. Pakistan would never support Khalistan mainly because they know that they are sitting on land vacated by Sikhs. India and some Hindus are our enemies at this stage but Islam and Muslims will be enemies of Sikhs for eternity. Sikhism promotes all the things that Islam dispises Freedom of belief and equality.

3. The 'Bhai Mardana was a Muslim so all Muslims and Islam can't be bad' brigade

These are people who have read some books on Sikhi mostly written by 'sarbsanjivalta' types from the 50's who were trying to present Sikhi as a socialist experiment. Instead of looking deeper they just assume that because Bhai Mardana was at one stage a Muslim suddenly this proves that Islam is a valid belief system. They take the verses from Gurbani about what a good Muslim should be and take that literally and instead of delving deeper into what definition Gurbani gives to a Muslim. They will use any excuse to overlook the actions of the Muslims. All the persecutions of the Sikhs in explained away as the actions of Mughals and not Muslims as if Mughals did not follow Islam. They fail to understand that the actions of the Mughals were in line with Islam. Anyone espousing freedom of belief and equal rights for all in an Islamic state is liable to be taken as an enemy of Allah and such liable to execution. These Sikhs will dismiss the actions of Muslims who have read the Quran and studied Islam for decades as 'misguded' and yet these Sikhs probably at best read a children's book on Islam saying what a great compassionate faith Islam is.

4. The aware Sikhs.

Gradually more and more Sikhs are becoming aware of what a danger Islam is. Just as the general population is becoming more and more aware and even some parts of the media has been asking searching questions about why Muslims seem to causing the most problems around the world. These Sikhs more than the other three types have the most experience of Muslims and Islam. These Sikhs are the ones when confronted by a Muslim hissing 'Issslaam is peeeecccee' will ask him some searching questions that even he won't be able to answer.

I think most Sikhs start off as any of the other three types but experience of Islam leads them in the end as type 4.

[dalsingh101]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

[proactive]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

[Medallion Stallion]

im getting fed up wid this! we keep goin in circles. if sikhs were raised properly then we wouldnt fear any threat from the outside..............our parents are our first teachers basically most sikhs have sh!t teachers!!!!

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

You should be brave enough to say what you mean and the fact you also instigator of promoting false propaganda yourself . The Nihung digs are getting somewhat repetitive. For your information A mona turned Nihung himself and a handful of his mates started the S.P movement in Southall he spent the 90’s asking for the likes of the Gurdwara committees, Akjs, Taksalees for help against the ever growing strength of fundamental Islam, grooming, bullying, racist attacks etc etc only to ba laughed at and shown the door.

These guys used to knock down doors to crack houses where upnia were being sexed out by Pakistani freshies, to name a few incidents, these braves were the ones who stood in the streets of chalvey, Slough, and told the fanatics to “bring it” this particular guy a Nihung now, a university graduate sacrificed his education, career and freedom he spent time in jail for saving the isath of a banji.

These guys stopped it then, no ones got the guts to do jack now, that’s reality pal now its just bakwas.

[dalsingh101]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

I'm talking about established fact not from any hippy website. Bhangi sardars got there name from Bhang taking by their leader. There are a good few European accounts explaining how common Sikh soldiers in the late 1700s took drink and drugs. Maharajah Ranjit Singh did too. Nihungs still do. I'm not saying everyone did, but plenty did and it was excepted.

Like dancing warrior said, many of these types of guys recently did a lot for helping hapless kuriaan more than any religious people in the 90s. Most religious people wouldn't know because they ignored it, like many seem to be doing now. My point is that it doesn't really matter if you are overtly religious or not - this is true today as well as in our past or how else do you explain the misals and Ranjit Singh etc?

In fact the people giving it large with their religiousity are involved in more and worse shia siapas than anyone else today.

In teh end - someone do something now please. If the religious people want to take the lead please do so - you will be supported - otherwise shut up and let the ones who want to do something do it, without bitchy personal remarks about their rehat.

[Guest Akirtghan]

someone do something now please

aint that typical desi mentality

PS. aren't you guys tired of arguing now? its been 8 pages man :wub:

[Harmeet1]

Let it carry on its fun.

I can't wait till ranj come's back... :wub: :D :wub: :D :|