Sikh Propaganda

[humkire]

dal singh jee ,

we are all in this together as a family .this is not a matter of religous/non religous .we were created as one family ,not a divided family with factions taking the lead and supported by the other .i see that for this issue to be tackled efficiently ,we will have to work together as one family ,and as you said ,without criticising the level of sikhi each one of us is at .i think its time we stopped classifying ourselves as akjs/nanakserias/ddts/nihungs/3ho ,and hero worshipping the leaders that resulted in this factions ,and embraced each other as one .all this judging each other as puritinical/liberal/conservative/orthodox/modern has to stop ,and replaced with love and support for one another .thats the first step .

second the point you made of becoming vulnerable wen u are weak is valid .it is the duty of everyone of us to see ourselves as protectors and ambassadors of sikhism .let us spread the beauty of sikhi as the present and future solution to the preservation and blossoming of humanity's potential from the level of sikhi each one of us is at .let sikhi radiate from our homes and personalities into the commmunities we exist in .i see gorays and others as future recipients of sikhi because sikhi is for everyone irrespective of race and colour because its not just a local punjabee thingy .this world needs sikhi so badly .this world needs the wisdom of SHREE GURU GRANTH SAHIB .this world needs NAAM .as you said rather than getting trapped into a competition and race over puritinism ,we need to strengthen our individual and societal relationship with sikhi and channel our energies on strengthening and sharing our understanding of sikhi .the more we plant sikhi and the more it blossoms the less danger we face of extinction .i urge all sikhs everywhere to be connected,knowledgable ,and supportive of all other sikhs in the areas they live in ,and not just content with their own existence and salvation .then we will be all ears and eyes looking out for one another .

thirdly at watever front we are being attacked ,we need to stand up and face the enemy in the eye ,no matter wat our individual sikhi persuasions are .this is definately not the time for complacency whether you are sehajdharee/amritdharee or any other ree.im sick of seeing sikhs wallowing in their own personal /self improvement/success/achievement/work/spiritual/family/clan agendas in the face of so many external and internal threats .a sikh is an outward looking -inner naam focussed individual who fears no aggressor .

in my lifetime ,i can honestly state that without exxagerating ,thru GURUJEE'S kirpa that wenever i have heard of any sikh being in a state of extreme vulnerability to christian or muslim conversion due to their personal circumstances i have gone out of my way to get close to such sikhs and help them out of danger .

finally ,we all have to do ardas daily before GOD and GURU to give us strength ,confidence and direction to protect sikhs everywhere from

the extreme of fundamentalism/conversions/propaganda of other religions to the extreme of being devoured by overtly indulgence in sheer attachment to materialism of an atheistic flavour. sikhi and the panth belong solely to GOD and GURUJEE ,who are the ultimate custodians of this great blessing to all mankind ,this precious sikhi .thru GURU'S kirpa may we be able to protect wat is already there and may sikhi flourish , grow and expand among all the races of the world .

[dalsingh101]

dal singh jee ,

we are all in this together as a family .this is not a matter of religous/non religous .we were created as one family ,not a divided family with factions taking the lead and supported by the other .i see that for this issue to be tackled efficiently ,we will have to work together as one family ,and as you said ,without criticising the level of sikhi each one of us is at .i think its time we stopped classifying ourselves as akjs/nanakserias/ddts/nihungs/3ho ,and hero worshipping the leaders that resulted in this factions ,and embraced each other as one .all this judging each other as puritinical/liberal/conservative/orthodox/modern has to stop ,and replaced with love and support for one another .thats the first step .

second the point you made of becoming vulnerable wen u are weak is valid .it is the duty of everyone of us to see ourselves as protectors and ambassadors of sikhism .let us spread the beauty of sikhi as the present and future solution to the preservation and blossoming of humanity's potential from the level of sikhi each one of us is at .let sikhi radiate from our homes and personalities into the commmunities we exist in .i see gorays and others as future recipients of sikhi because sikhi is for everyone irrespective of race and colour because its not just a local punjabee thingy .this world needs sikhi so badly .this world needs the wisdom of SHREE GURU GRANTH SAHIB .this world needs NAAM .as you said rather than getting trapped into a competition and race over puritinism ,we need to strengthen our individual and societal relationship with sikhi and channel our energies on strengthening and sharing our understanding of sikhi .the more we plant sikhi and the more it blossoms the less danger we face of extinction .i urge all sikhs everywhere to be connected,knowledgable ,and supportive of all other sikhs in the areas they live in ,and not just content with their own existence and salvation .then we will be all ears and eyes looking out for one another .

thirdly at watever front we are being attacked ,we need to stand up and face the enemy in the eye ,no matter wat our individual sikhi persuasions are .this is definately not the time for complacency whether you are sehajdharee/amritdharee or any other ree.im sick of seeing sikhs wallowing in their own personal /self improvement/success/achievement/work/spiritual/family/clan agendas in the face of so many external and internal threats .a sikh is an outward looking -inner naam focussed individual who fears no aggressor .

in my lifetime ,i can honestly state that without exxagerating ,thru GURUJEE'S kirpa that wenever i have heard of any sikh being in a state of extreme vulnerability to christian or muslim conversion due to their personal circumstances i have gone out of my way to get close to such sikhs and help them out of danger .

finally ,we all have to do ardas daily before GOD and GURU to give us strength ,confidence and direction to protect sikhs everywhere from

the extreme of fundamentalism/conversions/propaganda of other religions to the extreme of being devoured by overtly indulgence in sheer attachment to materialism of an atheistic flavour. sikhi and the panth belong solely to GOD and GURUJEE ,who are the ultimate custodians of this great blessing to all mankind ,this precious sikhi .thru GURU'S kirpa may we be able to protect wat is already there and may sikhi flourish , grow and expand among all the races of the world .

I don't disagree with anything you've said there. There used to be a time when I thought the beautiful message embedded in Sikhism, which to my mind is open mindedness, lack of superstition, bravery and compassion would take growth on its own merits. But what has happened is that various narrow minded, materialistic and casteist elements have taken over and hamper the Sikh movement, which I agree has so many important lessons for the world.

The fact that nothing being said here is new and I know people have been saying such things for a long time now, and that this has caused little change or reflection. Is disconcerting. Instead we have become beset with new issues of our own making (following people like Gurus, female infanticide, excess materialism just to name a few). So now internal and external forces eat away at us.

People need to wake up and lift their consciousness first of all.

[Punjabi_Link]

Dal Singh: Why are you wasting your time on these people?

[humkire]

dai singh jee ,

dont let any of wat you ve just mentioned depress and deter you from wat you need to do ,personally .a lot of sikh history has to do with just one brave boy of GURUJEE going out there and winning a battle ,causing havoc ,or creating a stir .it took one sikh to kill of massa ranghar ,one sikh to stab the elephant at the gate of anandpur fortress ,one sikh to go to america and spread sikhism among american whites ,one sikh to sort out indira ,one sikh to get the golden temple beautified with gold .so dont look at the short comings of others and get down hearted .focus on wat you need to do to serve GURU JEE ,and to help the chardi kela of sikhism .that is how the khalsa revolution will eventually spread ,wen one sikh becomes a role model and an inspiration for others to emulate .from little seeds grow shoots and roots and from them branches ,from them big treees and from them plenty of fruits and flowers .so plant the seed of sikhi everywhere you go . a true soldier seees victory in the face of appparent defeat .so get bubbling,energised ,and inspired by the great potential you have to effect change .

[dalsingh101]

dai singh jee ,

dont let any of wat you ve just mentioned depress and deter you from wat you need to do ,personally .a lot of sikh history has to do with just one brave boy of GURUJEE going out there and winning a battle ,causing havoc ,or creating a stir .it took one sikh to kill of massa ranghar ,one sikh to stab the elephant at the gate of anandpur fortress ,one sikh to go to america and spread sikhism among american whites ,one sikh to sort out indira ,one sikh to get the golden temple beautified with gold .so dont look at the short comings of others and get down hearted .focus on wat you need to do to serve GURU JEE ,and to help the chardi kela of sikhism .that is how the khalsa revolution will eventually spread ,wen one sikh becomes a role model and an inspiration for others to emulate .from little seeds grow shoots and roots and from them branches ,from them big treees and from them plenty of fruits and flowers .so plant the seed of sikhi everywhere you go . a true soldier seees victory in the face of appparent defeat .so get bubbling,energised ,and inspired by the great potential you have to effect change .

Best advice I've had in ages. Will try and follow it.

Thanks

:wub:

[proactive]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

I'm talking about established fact not from any hippy website. Bhangi sardars got there name from Bhang taking by their leader. There are a good few European accounts explaining how common Sikh soldiers in the late 1700s took drink and drugs. Maharajah Ranjit Singh did too. Nihungs still do. I'm not saying everyone did, but plenty did and it was excepted.

Like dancing warrior said, many of these types of guys recently did a lot for helping hapless kuriaan more than any religious people in the 90s. Most religious people wouldn't know because they ignored it, like many seem to be doing now. My point is that it doesn't really matter if you are overtly religious or not - this is true today as well as in our past or how else do you explain the misals and Ranjit Singh etc?

In fact the people giving it large with their religiousity are involved in more and worse shia siapas than anyone else today.

In teh end - someone do something now please. If the religious people want to take the lead please do so - you will be supported - otherwise shut up and let the ones who want to do something do it, without bitchy personal remarks about their rehat.

The Bhangi Misl took its name because one of its main leaders was addicted to Bhang, not all of the Misl were takers of Bhang. I think we have to use common sense when discussing these issues, if Bhang was the staple for Sikhs at that time then why the need to call someone Bhangi when most Sikhs would have been Bhangis. You only give people such names if their actions ie taking Bhang were out of the ordinary. The dodgy websites take the writings from 1840 period when Sikhs had had over 50 years of power and a section had degenerated into hard drinkers and bhang takers and take that to have been the norm in the 1699-1799 period. The hard drinking reputation of present Sikh soldiers is due to the Indian government loosening the emphasis on Rehat amongst Sikh soldiers after 1947. Pre-1947 Sikhs in the army had observed a century of rehat and there was no hard drinking or bhang taking in the army then. These soldiers fought in the hardest battles the British had to fight and went through two world wars without drink and bhang. So lets not confuse the issue here.

[proactive]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

You should be brave enough to say what you mean and the fact you also instigator of promoting false propaganda yourself . The Nihung digs are getting somewhat repetitive. For your information A mona turned Nihung himself and a handful of his mates started the S.P movement in Southall he spent the 90’s asking for the likes of the Gurdwara committees, Akjs, Taksalees for help against the ever growing strength of fundamental Islam, grooming, bullying, racist attacks etc etc only to ba laughed at and shown the door.

These guys used to knock down doors to crack houses where upnia were being sexed out by Pakistani freshies, to name a few incidents, these braves were the ones who stood in the streets of chalvey, Slough, and told the fanatics to “bring it” this particular guy a Nihung now, a university graduate sacrificed his education, career and freedom he spent time in jail for saving the isath of a banji.

These guys stopped it then, no ones got the guts to do jack now, that’s reality pal now its just bakwas.

Please get your facts straight. Was he a Nihang when he started the SP movement in southall or did he become a Nihang after? I am surprised at your comments since SP actions are the most criticised amongst UK Nihangs. Are you saying that the Islamophiliac UK Nihangs support what the SP did in the 90s and can I take it that UK Nihangs are the biggest supporters of the SAS and Bhai Mohan Singh?

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

You should be brave enough to say what you mean and the fact you also instigator of promoting false propaganda yourself . The Nihung digs are getting somewhat repetitive. For your information A mona turned Nihung himself and a handful of his mates started the S.P movement in Southall he spent the 90’s asking for the likes of the Gurdwara committees, Akjs, Taksalees for help against the ever growing strength of fundamental Islam, grooming, bullying, racist attacks etc etc only to ba laughed at and shown the door.

These guys used to knock down doors to crack houses where upnia were being sexed out by Pakistani freshies, to name a few incidents, these braves were the ones who stood in the streets of chalvey, Slough, and told the fanatics to “bring it” this particular guy a Nihung now, a university graduate sacrificed his education, career and freedom he spent time in jail for saving the isath of a banji.

These guys stopped it then, no ones got the guts to do jack now, that’s reality pal now its just bakwas.

Please get your facts straight. Was he a Nihang when he started the SP movement in southall or did he become a Nihang after? I am surprised at your comments since SP actions are the most criticised amongst UK Nihangs. Are you saying that the Islamophiliac UK Nihangs support what the SP did in the 90s and can I take it that UK Nihangs are the biggest supporters of the SAS and Bhai Mohan Singh?

Who’s Islamaphobic? go back and read your own posts pal! Then tell be who’s Islamaphobic?

Let me sum it up for you in the context of what’s being discussed.

This is their own accounts not my words, I spoke with one of them last night I wanted to get his feel on it.

# we used to go the Gurdwaras and have talks, meeting with youngsters the pardan (sohi) and his sons started grassing us up to the old bill we kept getting picked up and our cars got marked by the police. So we then started having meeting in pubs, more people would turn up mostly mona’. In fact Mona’ mostly were the ones who ever did anything, there were more mona’ there were a few sardars and a couple of Singhs. The Jathe didn’t want to know us the AKJ guys called us trouble makers and said we were not even Sikhs! A few mind you ,probably two or three did support us morally but that was it .The ISYF guys were too political they were willing to help but then wanted people muscle power to help them when it came to Gurudwara politics, like taking over Park avenue or Havelock road we didn’t want that so we were alone.

# we were sick and tired of these p**** beating up on kids were upnai were few in number, they would target Sikh girls who had younger brothers just for kicks, they often groomed girls first the clubbing and drinks and then it went two ways, first they converted usually because they had no other choice often the drinking drug taking would get out of hand and the girl may not come home for a few days being plastered from it all, they would have been sexual contact also during this grooming period, everyone knew that. Once it became common knowledge in the community due to gossiping aunties *To tell you the truth most parents didn’t even want them back*one even said “we’ll save a few quid on her wedding” the movement was massive everybody wanted on board, every were it was S.P this and S.P that, we took the fight everywhere Hounslow against the Apachies, Slough against the Chalvey boys etc etc east London , were they openly practice jadhu toona to convert girls even married women,

**one such case of an amritdari woman moved in next door with a moosla!! She didn’t even recognise her two year old and four year olds calling her from the garden as she done the mooslas washing nor her parents nor husband * * they took the matter to the Gurdwara and spoke to the Gianis, they were told only a Bramgiani could help them*

This is what I have seen with my own eyes this and so much more and led me to find out more about Sikhi, I tried to find out stuff here (U.K) but it was difficult politics was more important then spirituality which is the same bloody thing today.

So Proactive you can spin it how you like, your dislike of Nihungs is well noted “ Nihungs with their yellow kashera’ and plastic ak47” is what you say and that’s your view don’t mix it in here adding to the false propaganda. You can be Proactive like your namesake and do something about it instead of judging people you don’t even know and wouldn’t want to just because they belive in something a bit different then you.

[proactive]

Although I understand your point about some of the language I used I still stand by the main thrust of what I have been saying.

It is the cowardly type of Sikh that always seeks to negate what active Sikhs do. Masculinity is an issue for the panth and I know many of the aggressors you talk about specifically target families where the guys look like they cannot protect themselves. Plenty of times I have heard girls say that Sikh guys have just stood around whilst they were being harassed. This is disgraceful and inexcusable for a Khalsa (I am not one). The rest of us used to look up to Amritdharis as rakhwallay (protectors) of the panth but truthfully today they can't seem to do this. Why is it that when our numbers were so much lower in our past, Sikhs managed to basically conquer the people who harass so much? It was because they weren't obsessed with strictly puritanical interpretations of religion but were flexible and let natural leaders prevail without all the judgemental (rehatwise) nonsense that occurs today. Hence most of teh leaders drank and even took drugs but shattered the enemies ranks - That is historical fact.

You need to ask why we are producing such a consistent stream of clueless girls and the type of guys kurian don't want to be with as a solution to our problems. I also stand by my comments on the wishy washy brigade of clown Sikhs who totally negate the warrior "lion" reputation it took so much sacrifice to develop by their confused ways.

It is simple - If you look weak - expect to be targeted. That is something that is almost natural.

Whatever your personal feelings towards goray, historically they are the reason we are in this mess. Firstly by disarming the Khalsa when they robbed Panjab blind and secondly when they promote and brainwash youth with their media here. It is these notions that lead to kurian going off in the name of pyaar.

I am tired off this because Sikhs have been made aware of this for a t least 10 - 12 years now and they still keep making the same mistakes. Plus as you can see some still deny that an actual issue exists itself.

I understand what you are saying but you are making a mistake equating the great leaders of the Khalsa with the hard drinking and drug culture of Punjab. The leaders such as Banda Singh Bahadur, Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwalia didn't drink and they certainly didn't take drugs. Don't take the 'evidence' of some dodgy hippy websites as fact. In fact these people following that website are more likely to be taking part in Shia siapas than doing anything positive for Sikhi.

You should be brave enough to say what you mean and the fact you also instigator of promoting false propaganda yourself . The Nihung digs are getting somewhat repetitive. For your information A mona turned Nihung himself and a handful of his mates started the S.P movement in Southall he spent the 90’s asking for the likes of the Gurdwara committees, Akjs, Taksalees for help against the ever growing strength of fundamental Islam, grooming, bullying, racist attacks etc etc only to ba laughed at and shown the door.

These guys used to knock down doors to crack houses where upnia were being sexed out by Pakistani freshies, to name a few incidents, these braves were the ones who stood in the streets of chalvey, Slough, and told the fanatics to “bring it” this particular guy a Nihung now, a university graduate sacrificed his education, career and freedom he spent time in jail for saving the isath of a banji.

These guys stopped it then, no ones got the guts to do jack now, that’s reality pal now its just bakwas.

Please get your facts straight. Was he a Nihang when he started the SP movement in southall or did he become a Nihang after? I am surprised at your comments since SP actions are the most criticised amongst UK Nihangs. Are you saying that the Islamophiliac UK Nihangs support what the SP did in the 90s and can I take it that UK Nihangs are the biggest supporters of the SAS and Bhai Mohan Singh?

Who’s Islamaphobic? go back and read your own posts pal! Then tell be who’s Islamaphobic?

Let me sum it up for you in the context of what’s being discussed.

This is their own accounts not my words, I spoke with one of them last night I wanted to get his feel on it.

# we used to go the Gurdwaras and have talks, meeting with youngsters the pardan (sohi) and his sons started grassing us up to the old bill we kept getting picked up and our cars got marked by the police. So we then started having meeting in pubs, more people would turn up mostly mona’. In fact Mona’ mostly were the ones who ever did anything, there were more mona’ there were a few sardars and a couple of Singhs. The Jathe didn’t want to know us the AKJ guys called us trouble makers and said we were not even Sikhs! A few mind you ,probably two or three did support us morally but that was it .The ISYF guys were too political they were willing to help but then wanted people muscle power to help them when it came to Gurudwara politics, like taking over Park avenue or Havelock road we didn’t want that so we were alone.

# we were sick and tired of these p**** beating up on kids were upnai were few in number, they would target Sikh girls who had younger brothers just for kicks, they often groomed girls first the clubbing and drinks and then it went two ways, first they converted usually because they had no other choice often the drinking drug taking would get out of hand and the girl may not come home for a few days being plastered from it all, they would have been sexual contact also during this grooming period, everyone knew that. Once it became common knowledge in the community due to gossiping aunties *To tell you the truth most parents didn’t even want them back*one even said “we’ll save a few quid on her wedding” the movement was massive everybody wanted on board, every were it was S.P this and S.P that, we took the fight everywhere Hounslow against the Apachies, Slough against the Chalvey boys etc etc east London , were they openly practice jadhu toona to convert girls even married women,

**one such case of an amritdari woman moved in next door with a moosla!! She didn’t even recognise her two year old and four year olds calling her from the garden as she done the mooslas washing nor her parents nor husband * * they took the matter to the Gurdwara and spoke to the Gianis, they were told only a Bramgiani could help them*

This is what I have seen with my own eyes this and so much more and led me to find out more about Sikhi, I tried to find out stuff here (U.K) but it was difficult politics was more important then spirituality which is the same bloody thing today.

So Proactive you can spin it how you like, your dislike of Nihungs is well noted “ Nihungs with their yellow kashera’ and plastic ak47” is what you say and that’s your view don’t mix it in here adding to the false propaganda. You can be Proactive like your namesake and do something about it instead of judging people you don’t even know and wouldn’t want to just because they belive in something a bit different then you.

I see that you again jump in without even reading my post. I wrote ISLAMOPHILIAC not ISLAMOPHOBIC, get yourself a dictionary before putting your foot in. UK Nihangs are Islamophiliacs mostly for the Shia Islam variety. A couple of them even attend the Shia Muslim siapas and self abuse crying over some dead Imam.

Where have I said anything about yellow kashera? Yes, I have criticised Nihangs with their plastic AK47s but I haven't said anything about the Bana so once again more bukwas on your part.

Once again can you answer the following questions

Was he a Nihang when he started the SP movement in southall or did he become a Nihang after? I am surprised at your comments since SP actions are the most criticised amongst UK Nihangs. Are you saying that the Islamophiliac UK Nihangs support what the SP did in the 90s and can I take it that UK Nihangs are the biggest supporters of the SAS and Bhai Mohan Singh?

[Medallion Stallion]

I pretty sure that muslim women leave islam too ya know BUT even they dont go on like we do we just come off as very paranoid when someone leaves sikhi.............even though islam has its weaknesses and THEY know it but they dont want to show it HERE sikhi has NO weaknesses but because we are so paranoid we give off a vibe that sikhi is weak when it clearly isnt LOL.......................about the amritdhari bibi livin with that guy well just goes to show that even those sikhs can turn out to be fsomething differenti dunno why people think that ALL amritdharis all act and behave the same just because they have taken amrit some are good and some are bad thats life the actions of one bibi shouldnt make you jump to the conclusion that all bibis' are like that...........without the sikh bibis sacrifices we wouldnt be here at all.

You know what i would love to see here is a topic started by a bibi on how sikh men are running off with non sikh women and leaving sikhi (because that happens too) and how she is soo p!ssed off about it!