Would You Come Forward?

[Gurbar Akaal]

You do need to train allot, within a few classes you could deal with very basic attacks, and increase your own awareness, within a few months you could be able to defeat a semi skilled fighter with ease, the higher penthreh, sonchiya, weapons, battlefield strategies and skirmishes requires constant training, in and out of the akhara.

If anyone wants the times and venues of the classes you can pm me.

[B4ND4]

Lets not deviate from the topic. Yeah some kinda physical training would help but thats not the question at the moment. My question is if a sikh saw a crime, shouldn't he be coming forward to give a statement or something. I don't think any physical training to required to speak truth but why do we always come across the "why should i be bothered" attitude..is that a truthful living... is that sikhi???

After witnessing an incident on the forum today i am left confused about the present state of people around us in general and sikhs in particular. This question has been on my mind for a long time that why do people fail to come forward even after witnessing gruesome crimes.. racial assaults, rapes, murders, thefts etc. All they need to do is step forward and reveal the truth, is it that hard to speak truth?? We as sikhs beat the dhols about leading a truthful life but is ignoring something that is clearly wrong truthful living?? Why do people tend to stay away from doing a righteous act?? What is it that stops them, are they dead or maya has consumed em so much that they lack rational thinking?? What is it that they can't be bothered about anyone else but their immediate families.

So my question here is if you are a witness to a crime would you come forward and help the victim and his/her family in brining the culprit to justice?? Seems like most of us aren't even bothered about people around us but if it comes to our own family we'll be knocking everyones door begging for help..now how selfish is that?? Will you wake up when your own mother or sister or anyone in your family is a victim. I tell you Waheguru is watching all our actions, even if you opt to ignore something today for whatever reasons it'll come back to haunt you sooner or later. All i am saying is wake up and lead a life of self-respect, courage, dignity.

If you were a young person who saw a crime being commited, would you go to the police and get your statement recorded or would u just sit on a comfy sofa watchin your fav. show because the crime commited doesn't affect your family. I wonder if you would still be watching the fav. TV show if your mother was being assaulted.

I have seen many people who just love to stand and watch the show and fail to take action when it is required. HA! are you the Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?? Are you the lions that Guru ji made?? I see no lions all i see is SHEEP. We are trhe Khlasa but we have become Sheep because truth no longer matters to us. What matters to us is that our family is safe and sound, who gives a damn about others.

Many people here shout outta their buttholes that every other woman is our sister, mother, daughter but when it comes to helping our mothers in need, it seems the Khalsa goes blind.

Do parents play a role in stopping their kids from saying the truth because that would mean tensions amongst the kids and criminals?? If yes, these are the traits of SHEEP like Khlasa. I see Khalsa going down the drain.. Rise up and stand for truth, have the guts to die for truth.

Moh maya sabb ithe reh jaani aa, so wake up before its too late.

Very true statements by Dancing Warrior here. Those were the good times you have talked about but what abput the present times?? All i see is ocean of sheep and nothing else. It just leaves me sad and dejected seeing the ironic state of today's sikh and their thinking.

Gurus Khalsa hides from nothing including addressing his own faults, Khalsa is the calming shadow for the helpless and destitute.

A elderly Muslim once told me when he was a boy in Lahore he would have to catch a train to go to his school, his mother used to tell his father;

“when dropping of the boy, see if there is a Sardar Singh travelling the same way, ask him to look after our boy”

And when ever there was, guaranteed they would always watch over him. Such qualities are from Guru ji himself.

The Khalsa is the sword of humanity, Guru Ji made the Khalsa so it could never hide its responsibility to the service Humanity,

Degh, Tegh, Fathe’.

[jaag]

I agree with B4ND4 about this topic - lets not deviate and start talking about different types of martial arts etc. ALL MARTIAL ARTS TEACH the following - explore other means first. There is a large assumption that sikhs must WHIP out there kirpans. This is not the case. Lets make up a case where you see someone getting attacked. YOUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IS YOUR VOICE! You can yell, gather video evidence and help by giving statements.

This thread was created in response to an assault attack which occured in birmingham at a gurmat camp. The campers in the park saw and they need to ask themselves why are they not going to give statements????

The article is quoted below to jog people's memories. If you saw then please get in contact. I have spoken to the mnoderators and asked them if I can put this up. The reason they say the original thread was closed was because it got personal. There is a negilence issue but can we CONCENTRATE on getting statements and THINK about PREVENTION as this COULD HAPPEN TO ANY PINK, BLUE, PURPLE PERSON. Lets all think what we would do the next time we see someone getting hurt, robbed etc.....

ASK YOURSELF WHY THESE PEOPLE BEHAVED LIKE THIS. WHY THEY SAW IT ALL BUT DO NOT WANT TO COME FORWARD.

At the Gurmat camp in Birmingham, sparkhill. A young mother was assaulted in broad daylight by a group of Muslim youths, who threw a large piece of broken pavement directly towards her turban, causing bleeding from her head.

This occurred whilst she was on her way to the Gurudwara from the park (all the children from the gurmat camp were in the park) but after asking one of the group leaders she found out that her daughter was not in the park as she was entering a gubani competition in the gurudwara.

So the lady made her way back to the gurudwara. She was still in the park going over to the gurudwara when a group of muslim youths threw a piece of pavement block directly towards her turban, causing her to bleed in the head.

The injuries she received from this assault needed immediate medical attention as she was taken in an ambulance to hospital. The motive of the assault being that this lady is a religious Sikh woman wearing a turban and they were Muslims.

The reason why I am writing is because there are a number of things i am not happy with:

1. When the assault took place, everyone in park saw it but decided to ignore it.

2. Knowing that the lady was bleeding from the head -no one called the police or the ambulance (only the daughter that was with her did this – what if this happened to another lady who was not with someone?)

3. Nobody thought it was necessary to hold onto the muslim boys who had done this. The lady managed to hold on to one of them whilst bleeding but then a few sikhs came over and were telling the lady to let go of him.

4. When the police did arrive on the scene everyone came around pretending that they cared for the lady.

5. Two days later, the gurudwara gurmat camp was asked what they were going to do about this. Giani sukhdev singh was evasive saying he cared but he was not willing to give a statement, instead he said that he wasn’t free yet, he was busy with work and didn’t have time etc. When asked for his phone number rather than giving it to the lady, he told her to get it off a poster that was around the gurudwara building .This is the same person who gives lectures to sikhs about helping one another and sticking together.

6. When asked who would be willing to act as a witness or give a statement the people who saw the assault were too scared to step forward and when the lady asked them they said NO. when one female turban wearing person was asked she said, "yes i saw what happened the muslim boy hit me with something as well, but I just ignored it, and no, I wont go to the police to tell them, but honestly you should - you shouldn’t let them get away with it"

Is this how hypocritical sikhs have become?

I would like to point out that later on about 5 youths were concerned about the incident. But the people leading the gurmat camp, the committee members and all the other people turned a blind eye. Why did the muslims attack? well because the ENTIRE sikh community was present in the park in a normally muslim area.

Even though the park was full of sikhs and there were only 10 muslims - the sikhs did not do anything. Someone could have easily held the muslim boys who instead ran when they saw the police.

The attitude seems that sikhs people don't care about what happens even when its in front of their faces. If lets say the same had happened to another community such as muslims the reaction to this event, the outcome, the number of people willing to witness would have been more positive. I don’t think a single person would have said to ignore this racially motivated attack.

[Singh1983]

I have a 3inch scar running from my eye to my cheek for helping an innocent white man during a robbery in canary wharf.

Later i was taken to court for using excessive force againest the robber.

It doesnt pay to defend / fight for the innocent. Would i do it again .... Yes but next

time i would make sure the guy never woke up!.

[Medallion Stallion]

They probably didnt come forward because they were scared of any reprisals towards them and their families which of course is NO EXCUSE..............i cant figure it out i mean ive never been to one of these camps but arent there supposed to be people there with like bana on and shasters.....................something could have been done.

sikhs should only fear what Guru Ji thinks of us and not be scared of scum like them.

[Singh1983]

I agree with B4ND4 about this topic - lets not deviate and start talking about different types of martial arts etc. ALL MARTIAL ARTS TEACH the following - explore other means first. There is a large assumption that sikhs must WHIP out there kirpans. This is not the case. Lets make up a case where you see someone getting attacked. YOUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IS YOUR VOICE! You can yell, gather video evidence and help by giving statements.

This thread was created in response to an assault attack which occured in birmingham at a gurmat camp. The campers in the park saw and they need to ask themselves why are they not going to give statements????

The article is quoted below to jog people's memories. If you saw then please get in contact. I have spoken to the mnoderators and asked them if I can put this up. The reason they say the original thread was closed was because it got personal. There is a negilence issue but can we CONCENTRATE on getting statements and THINK about PREVENTION as this COULD HAPPEN TO ANY PINK, BLUE, PURPLE PERSON. Lets all think what we would do the next time we see someone getting hurt, robbed etc.....

ASK YOURSELF WHY THESE PEOPLE BEHAVED LIKE THIS. WHY THEY SAW IT ALL BUT DO NOT WANT TO COME FORWARD.

At the Gurmat camp in Birmingham, sparkhill. A young mother was assaulted in broad daylight by a group of Muslim youths, who threw a large piece of broken pavement directly towards her turban, causing bleeding from her head.

This occurred whilst she was on her way to the Gurudwara from the park (all the children from the gurmat camp were in the park) but after asking one of the group leaders she found out that her daughter was not in the park as she was entering a gubani competition in the gurudwara.

So the lady made her way back to the gurudwara. She was still in the park going over to the gurudwara when a group of muslim youths threw a piece of pavement block directly towards her turban, causing her to bleed in the head.

The injuries she received from this assault needed immediate medical attention as she was taken in an ambulance to hospital. The motive of the assault being that this lady is a religious Sikh woman wearing a turban and they were Muslims.

The reason why I am writing is because there are a number of things i am not happy with:

1. When the assault took place, everyone in park saw it but decided to ignore it.

2. Knowing that the lady was bleeding from the head -no one called the police or the ambulance (only the daughter that was with her did this – what if this happened to another lady who was not with someone?)

3. Nobody thought it was necessary to hold onto the muslim boys who had done this. The lady managed to hold on to one of them whilst bleeding but then a few sikhs came over and were telling the lady to let go of him.

4. When the police did arrive on the scene everyone came around pretending that they cared for the lady.

5. Two days later, the gurudwara gurmat camp was asked what they were going to do about this. Giani sukhdev singh was evasive saying he cared but he was not willing to give a statement, instead he said that he wasn’t free yet, he was busy with work and didn’t have time etc. When asked for his phone number rather than giving it to the lady, he told her to get it off a poster that was around the gurudwara building .This is the same person who gives lectures to sikhs about helping one another and sticking together.

6. When asked who would be willing to act as a witness or give a statement the people who saw the assault were too scared to step forward and when the lady asked them they said NO. when one female turban wearing person was asked she said, "yes i saw what happened the muslim boy hit me with something as well, but I just ignored it, and no, I wont go to the police to tell them, but honestly you should - you shouldn’t let them get away with it"

Is this how hypocritical sikhs have become?

I would like to point out that later on about 5 youths were concerned about the incident. But the people leading the gurmat camp, the committee members and all the other people turned a blind eye. Why did the muslims attack? well because the ENTIRE sikh community was present in the park in a normally muslim area.

Even though the park was full of sikhs and there were only 10 muslims - the sikhs did not do anything. Someone could have easily held the muslim boys who instead ran when they saw the police.

The attitude seems that sikhs people don't care about what happens even when its in front of their faces. If lets say the same had happened to another community such as muslims the reaction to this event, the outcome, the number of people willing to witness would have been more positive. I don’t think a single person would have said to ignore this racially motivated attack.

Are you for real? When did this happen?

Can’t believe it, has it become this bad. We can’t even protect and look after our own people.

Things need to change and fast. Even a non religious person with a hint of lug for humanity would have come to her aid. :wub:

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

true niddar singh can teach u how to fight. i used to go to his akhara, i learnt sumpowerful stuff at his akhara. but at what cost? i also heard sum of the bull he chats. jung vidiya is great and if u can learn it then pls do cus it will definately help u. but niddar singh and the rubbish he chats cud corrupt ur sikhi. jus cus he teaches jung vidya doesnt mean u shud learn it from him, sum 1 who corrupts the teachings of the gurus. we shud not hav contact with ppl like this.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

Yes people role up!! role up!! Niddar Singhs Crap is so powerful it can corrupt your Sikhi if his craps that powerful imagine what his Vidya could do to you!?!

Jokers

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

u kno as well i do that sangat is very important. one shud choose there sangat well as the way those act around u will rub of on u. if u wanna learn jung vidiya go ahead. just choose who u learn it off wisely.

[B4ND4]

A humble benti to stay away from this niddar singh issue. This thread is about helping our mother..if you have something constructive to add, please do.. otherwise beh jo tik ke

ThkQ :wub: