Im Annoyed

[mukh]

Hahah I think we've gone off subject....(important issue too).

KarKirpaaVaheguroo had a really good point. The sangat that we surround our selves with is very decisive and reflective on our own image. I can say with experience....and have seen many others as well.

"What is dangerous is that often because of the difference in look - others will ask them questions etc. and when they are incapable of giving a decent answer it just makes Sikhs look dumb. This happens so often." (dalsingh101)

I think that's a pretty big generalization your making....I would think that Singhs/Kaurs that keep their hair would "usually" know more than what a "mona" would know about Sikhi...and even if they don't know very much about Sikhi for Guru Gobind Singh....just keeping your Kes and Panj Kikaars is 50% of a Sikh for Guru Ji.

Bhul Chuk Di Maafi

WJKK WJKF

[dalsingh101]

Hahah I think we've gone off subject....(important issue too).

KarKirpaaVaheguroo had a really good point. The sangat that we surround our selves with is very decisive and reflective on our own image. I can say with experience....and have seen many others as well.

I know that the company we keep plays an important factor in our lives but sometimes some Sikhs use the concept of sangat to hide themselves from interaction with the wider duniya. As long as we remember that many people in the Sikh sangat can be base and corrupt and some people from outside can be decent humans from who we can learn. Personally I would feel I could learn more from someone who is say a surgeon than your average giani.

"What is dangerous is that often because of the difference in look - others will ask them questions etc. and when they are incapable of giving a decent answer it just makes Sikhs look dumb. This happens so often." (dalsingh101)

I think that's a pretty big generalization your making....I would think that Singhs/Kaurs that keep their hair would "usually" know more than what a "mona" would know about Sikhi.

This wasn't my experience from mixing with Amritdharis at university. From my experience the majority were following due to family pressure more than internal motivation. That being said: It is really good to see that more and more people are practising from personal conviction these days despite discouragement from their families.

..and even if they don't know very much about Sikhi for Guru Gobind Singh....just keeping your Kes and Panj Kikaars is 50% of a Sikh for Guru Ji.

I hope Guru ji was deeper than that. So a trim Singh is cool because he is roughly 25% there!

[Punjabi_Link]

Thats what I hate. Personally i think the hair should be the last thing to do after learning all the necessary info. Otherwise you have all the trim SInghs and others who look Sikh but don't know jack about it.

What is dangerous is that often because of the difference in look - others will ask them questions etc. and when they are incapable of giving a decent answer it just makes Sikhs look dumb. This happens so often.

Word.

I remember there was a Sikh awareness day thing at my college campus and all the people were asking questions to some Singh guy and the dude didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't even know why Sikhs keep their hair. :D LMAO Luckily, there were some knowledgeable Sikhs and people such as myself at the event.

But yeah, I was laughing so hard that day. Oh man, it made my day. I think Singh guy felt stupid.

[dalsingh101]

Thats what I hate. Personally i think the hair should be the last thing to do after learning all the necessary info. Otherwise you have all the trim SInghs and others who look Sikh but don't know jack about it.

What is dangerous is that often because of the difference in look - others will ask them questions etc. and when they are incapable of giving a decent answer it just makes Sikhs look dumb. This happens so often.

Word.

I remember there was a Sikh awareness day thing at my college campus and all the people were asking questions to some Singh guy and the dude didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't even know why Sikhs keep their hair. :D LMAO Luckily, there were some knowledgeable Sikhs and people such as myself at the event.

But yeah, I was laughing so hard that day. Oh man, it made my day. I think Singh guy felt stupid.

I've seen this happen a few times. Once when asked about kesh at uni a guy replied that it was too not interfere with God's naturally given look. Then the other guy (gora) started asking about cutting your toe nails and finger nails. The Sikh guy was completely baffled. I was cringing in embarrassment. I have always been taught the the external form was given to make Singhs distinguishable so they can't hide their faith (as many did when Guru Tegh Bahadhur was made a shaheed), nothing to do with the natural looks theory. The Singh buried himself when the gora asked "if it was so important why didn't the previous Gurus make it mandatory". He just looked baffled and didn't say a word.

Another time a Singh friend of mine was on the tube and a gora came up to him and said "Your a follower of Guru Nanak, what are his key beliefs?" I only know because he came to the Gurdwara and asked for the answer and admitted he was baffled and didn't know what to say to the gora at the time.

I mean what kind of impression does this give?

[dalsingh101]

Sorry had to add this one - One thing that really gets on my nerves is when you are lectured by a Singh and then you find out that the geezer hasn't even bothered to learn to read Panjabi!! I mean what the flip!! Giving it large and you haven't even made the effort/commitment to learn the language. I find that unbelievable. Then everything they have learnt is regurgitating someone else's vichar without making and serious efforts to khoj themselves.

No offence anyone.

[KKV]

I agree with you but you gotta admit boys are treated better when it comes to some stuff.

p.s. whether they boys or girls that run away i think its stoopid and i don't see what realistic reason they could have - attention seekers lol

I can understand that many teenagers go through this thing where they feel they are not being treated with respect or their views are completely ignored and hence want to run away. I think because women can be more emotional than guys sometimes they can take such things much more intensely than guys and react more dramatically, whereas a guy will get peed off but shrug it off. Sometimes girls get too excited and get some seriously dumb advice from other female friends who console and amplify negative feelings leading to serious feeling of resentment. Next thing you know they have run of with Abdul from college.

Inflexible parents and family have a lot to learn and are responsible for a large part in this.

tru...but what also gets me most is that when these 'trimsters' or non-Kesdharee Sangath go to the Gurdwara - EVERYONE sorta seperates them - the Baba that gives the Parshaad will only give them a lil bit whereas, when a "Gursikh" comes up and he gives them a whole patheela of Parshaad (exageration :D ) - same goes for Langar. Its then that same "Gursikh" that you later see in the Langar hall etc chattin about girls and your like

Non-Kesdharee have more Shardhaa and Sathkaar for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee than what you would call your average 'Gursikh'. People like me go the the Gurdwara and act like we own the place, whereas these non-Kesdharee go with Nimerathaa.

As much as I take the peas out of some these trimsters (i only mess bout) - I respect SOME of them.

P.s. No one get offended, am not chattin about any specific "Gursikhs" - just random

P.p.s Mind the preach

[keerat]

well as a young sikh i say evryone is at fault. families, gurdwaras, friends, da people themselves etc u name it

evry1 is diffrnt; u cnt generalise ppl; its nt ryt, itz nt fair. u dnt kno their lifestory, so dont base ur view so loosely

i myself cum from a family that dont cut hair. my dad is a sardar, altho in his earli days he used 2 trim his daari. with age cums wisdom and understandin; as i am experiencein myself.

I use 2 nt cut my hair, but then used 2 trim it as i found it woz 2 long and dne hard 2 keep. recentli i cut it; stil long, but a gutth s nt my onli option nw.

i wantd 2 go punjabi skl bcos my sistaz used 2 and i wntd 2 c wot it woz lyk. i h8td it until i gt in2 doin my GCSE which i completed with pride 2 years ago (i gt a B,woo!). it woznt until da last few years if learinin punjabi dat i actuli njoyd it and wntz 2 learn it; othawiz it woz cos i had 2.

since i finishd i find dat i feel der shud b mor 4 young sikhs, so that we cn socialise and learn 2getha, altho my skl is mainly asian, i hav v. few sikh friends and i feel it.

there is a lot of communty things 4 ppl in da midlands, and evn in southall, but they are all associated and controlld by da gurdwara.

y dnt we hav ne youth clubs lyk gujjiz do, wher it cn b a relaxd environment but stil with restrictions?

[natsilahk]

Once again, I'll share my family story for those who diss "trimsters".

It's not about being part-time as it is one seeing the potential of someone atleast keeping a pugh that they may keep their full hair later on in life.

My dad was raised and he trimmed his dhari, so did his father, it was just something you did. My parents aren't religious at all.

When my father moved to the states, the first thing he heard was people telling him to lose the pugh, it would get him a job easier. The second thing he heard, was people in gurdwara telling him to lose the pugh, because he already trimmed his dhari. How do you think that makes an individual feel? I really wonder if the Gursikh youth who talk down to trimsters feel as if they are helping?

Regardless of that, my father kept his pugh because "it was just something you do." They hardly taught me anything regarding sikhi, or why i tied a patka. I went to school, and they wanted to cut my hair after 9/11 and me being a lower-classmen in high school at the time. I was also kicked off the basketball team for tying a patka for 2 seasons in a row.

Before that incident in my life, I kept a patka because it was something you do. When i was given the option to cut it, I kept it, because i was accustomed to it, and it felt a part of me.

I'm much older now, and by all means, I don't consider myself a Sikh at all (im more of an atheist), but I am the first person in 3 generations of my family, and the only one in my family, that keeps a full dhari and a pugh. I will also be the first person in unknown time to take amrit in my family.

The sole reason why i kept a joora while i was younger was because my father had one, and my mother tied a patka on me everyday before school started. If my father would have cut his hair, like the gur-sikhs in the gurdwara or the random punjabis had recommended him to do so, I would have never kept it.

4 other members of my extended family now, are growing full dharis (all from parents who trim their dhari, or were individuals who had previously trimmed)

You guys need to understand what potential is, and not be so quick to judge someone on their level of "full time or part time" sikhi.

Once you tie a pugh, its a lot easier to move up the ladder than starting from the bottom.

Reading this forum is almost like a turn-off from sikhi. It's almost as if the more religious people get, the more judgmental they become.

[Guest peacemaker]

OK! OK!!! I get it. I'm so annoyed that I'm going to go on the internet and make a post about people who wear caps or patkas. Hello??????Who really cares if somebody chooses to wear a cap????? Yeah, that's what I felt after reading all these replies going on and on and using such silly words as "trimsters" to describe fellow human beings.

This is just another WHATEVER topic. I could really give a damn. A Big Yawnnnnnnn for me. Infact, I think I'll go to sleep now. Nighty night.

P.S. If create useless TOPICS, I'll respond to them as if they were useless and didn't matter in the first place.

[pyaraji]

I'd disagree Peacemaker.

This topic helps us understand why some ppl would trim while wearing a dastar/cap and discuss the pros and cons of doing so. So far there have been some good points like how its a starting point for some ppl and it would eventually be easier for them to keep a full beard later. I think thats a valid point as long as they understand that hair is very important for a gursikh.

However, wearing a cap with a joora makes one look as if they are ashamed of being identified as a sikh. If one is ashamed of being a sikh, then whats the chance they will know or have the desire to know about sikhi? I think wearing a cap is showing that the person is getting weak and will eventually cut their hair.

Topics such as these give us insight into why people are doing what they are doing these days. By discussing, we can understand where they are coming from and can be in a better position to help them. This will also reduce the judging and what not we do.