Preethams Sweet Centre

[jss]

while i can understand what Singh132 is saying (not necessarily agree)

i do take issue with the targeting of one community over other people.

You seem to think that every naamdhari believes that guru sahib is just a book and not as important as their "gurus". I used to think that also, but having spoken to several naamdharis i've learnt that it isn't exactly like that. I've learned that they do believe in guru sahib's importance, they simply have the belief that then need a human guru to explain to them what guru sahib is saying and show them how to live the life. I don't agree with that stance, but i can respect it as being someone else's belief.

In fact, you cannot just simply say if someone regards guru sahib as a book, they are insulting us or guru sahib...that is simply their belief...they could have a lot of respect for guru sahib in their minds... I have a goan friend who is christian...for the past couple of years she's been reading passages from guru sahib and going through pages and she has a lot of respect for the teachings of our guru and sees how they can be implemented in her life...but to her it is not guru sahib...simply a book of teachings...now am i going to look at the fact that she is taking the guidance and implementing it in her life in the ways she can at this point in time..or am i going to get hung up on the fact that she doesn't accept guru granth sahib as her guru???

Your stance doesn't make sense in regards to the naamdhari having their belief. I also don't agree on lumping naamdharis and nirankaris in the same group. The nirankaris have a totally different belief system, not only that, their actions had a direct impact on the sikh panth ..ie. 1978.

I am not aware of any similar experience of the sikh panth with the naamdharis.

having different beliefs isn't such a bad thing. As long as they're respecting you, you can respect them...and the main thing about dietary bibek (this distinction is very important as we shouldn't mislead people into thinking that bibek is this very limited concept of who you eat food from) is the vibrations going into the food...that naamdhari owner of that restaurant may be a strict nitnemi...might be reading tonnes of gurbani in their daily life, while cooking the food...from what i know of devout naamdharis they follow a very strict rehit and do lots of paaht and simran...

my point is ..if you're someone who feels that eating out isn't good for your soul journey..then don't do it...but it shouldn't be discriminatory based on someone's race, religion, or creed...

[Heera Singh]

^^ yeh.. wha he said...

[Sarbloh]

Your stance doesn't make sense in regards to the naamdhari having their belief. I also don't agree on lumping naamdharis and nirankaris in the same group. The nirankaris have a totally different belief system, not only that, their actions had a direct impact on the sikh panth ..ie. 1978.

I am not aware of any similar experience of the sikh panth with the naamdharis.

JSS, I have to disagree with you there. The presence of the namdhari "guruship" and constant re-representation of Sikh history and Maryada do have a direct impact on the Sikh panth. The problem is many of us are not prepared to see it like that and seem to look for evidence of historical conflicts.

I think Singh 132 has given a good summary.

[Morakh]

Singh 132 good reply

:D

[Heera Singh]

every other religion see's Sree Guru Granth Sahib Jee as a 'book'... does that mean we should stop associating wit people from other religions? shoot... most "sikhs" see Maharaj Jee's Saroop as a 'book'... they're disrespecting sikhi more then nebody..

bottom line.. i dun tink we can put a generalized label on a certain group...

also.. buyin food from grocery store and then comin home n 'washin' it doesn't do netin to the vibrations that are already in it... because remember, not all amritdharee people do bani/simran whilst makin their food..

although i agree we shud TRY not to eat from outside... we'd save a lot more money.. its the 'safest' way... n of course, nothin beats a nice home cooked meal by momma (p.s. momz makin pizza tomorrow, so party @ my place :D )

[B4ND4]

As long as we keep defending our actions our understanding on dietary bibek will be limited. Bibek is a must for amritdharis. I am not capabale of explaining bibek but Singh132 veer has summed it up very well. We should always look up to great gursikhs and not come up with weak statements just for the sake for having a meaningless debate. Try being bibeki, you'll know how it affects your sikhi.

ps: humkire ji i was jokin about kajuu barfi. It takes me ages to make dal n roti i don't think i have time for kajuu barfis. You can type the recipe here or pm me, i mght try it someday :D .

[japmans]

though in general, i agree with jss, i also found myself to agree alot with what Singh132 said.

i think you're missing his main point, that Naamdharis propagate themselves to be Sikhs, that's why for him, there's more of an issue..

jss, your goan friend is not a sikh, is not claiming to be a sikh, and is not claiming that her way was the way that is real ever since 1708...

similarly heera, every other religion in the world is the same way. they are not claiming to be sikh, to follow sikhi, and so on so forth.. i don't see how we should expect them to think any differently of our Guru if they're not prescriing themselves to the path...

I do agree with jss that we shouldn't discriminate based on caste/colour/creed/belief, so on so forth.

i agree with what Singh 132 said about the concept "ultimately what your conscience allows you to do"... i think that's very important... but I think his point, specifically about naamdharis, is the fact that they openly propagate to be Sikhs, that the true sikh panth and path and rehit is the one that Bhai Ram Singh "supposedly" took and so on... that's why his sentiment is that it's a direct insult to Guru Panth.

just clarifying.

[N30S1NGH]

I dont want to make this an namdhari debate, if my post did, this wasnt intention. Before i cut and paste few points i manage to point out earlier in observation regarding namdharis. I genuinely want to point out bibek/suchmta namdharis beleive in is same than bibek tapoban or akj follow up, soo much so i wouldnt be commiting mistake if i say they even follow more bibek than tapoban or akj. How do i know this? I have a namdhari freind, who took me his house as a tour to clear up mis conceptions. He showed me via history/pratically they do full ishnan including kesi ishnan 3 am in the morning, also use sand to enhance their suchmta. Their nitneem is of das granthi- 5 regular banis along with sri akal ustat, ugardanti, chandi di //, shabad haazarie patsah dasvian, bachitar natak.

Few misconceptions hope to clear way-

people make it sound they deliberatly change the history same hinduphobia/rss the fact rss wasnt even there that time when they happen to misinterpret the history. on the issue of sri guru gobind singh ji disappearing- i genuninely think this beleif sir guru gobind singh ji being aloop was common around that time sri guru gobind singh ji did not hide but went Aloop(gupt) and people had no doubts that sri guru granth sahib ji was given gurship in hazoor sahib, sri guru gobind singh ji body being aloop it orginally came from nander, where still there is still an beleif in hazoor sahib ji- nobody could find sri guru gobind singh ji pavitar sirar, its was aloop, this account is very common within sachkhand hazoor sahib, there was angeeta(pyre) but body was not found.

Now issue sri guru gobind singh ji coming back as in baba balak singh ji. thats one major/twisted misinterpertation.

I dont think this beleif sri guru gobind singh came as baba balak was an act of person to cause divisions within panth, i dont think this was malicous act but an honest misinterpertations of people which turned into firm beleif now. You know if 100 people call false- true, they geniunely started thinking that as a gospel truth, same deal here.

Its a major misconception that they do beadhi of sri guru granth sahib ji- shabad guru, they may not follow 100 percent outer parkash maryada(which is sad because they used to in all namdharis gurdwaras) but regardless gurbani is on their lips both gurbani from sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji. I dont find anything wrong with their emphasis more on shabad guru than physical form of guru. After all our main aim is to merge with nirankar with shabad guru.

What is bani?

Sri guru maharaj says:

Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankar Hai ||

Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela

They fully beleive that bani is only link with Nirankar. All their nitneem, naam simran all comes from sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth. They fully beleive in concept of shabad guru.

Even physical form of guru which is physical sri guru granth sahib is there to show you inside essence which is shabad guru. I dont have problem with them putting more emphasis on shabad guru which they do in their daily nitneem and monthly akhand patts. Only problem i have and i will ever have with namdharis is the sri gobind singh ji successcor lineage issue- i firmly beleive sri guru gobind singh passed his gurgaddi to sri guru granth sahib ji but they do otherwise, and i respect their beleif, leave that differences aside like all the other samparda's do and live like brothers.

Looking at the sad state of affairs right now modern days groups rejecting dasam bani, bhai gurdas ji varan , bhagata di bani, samparda's, doing nindya of real sants.. I appreciate namdharis more than them for keeping traditions alive along with nihangs and nirmale. Traditions like- Sri dasam granth akhand patt, gurmat sangit maryada, shastar vidya, observing strict daily maryada.

I do agree with namdhari gurmat sangeet have hindu classical music influence however this still does not negate- puratan reetiyan, promotion of classical instruments they have perserved seena-basina and they also beleive in nam dritha concept.

my 2nd post on namdharis:

I fully beleive in that, baba ram singh ji ji wrote letters that said that he was not a GURU, but you have to remember, all the great mahapursh from namdhari samparda they dont consider themselves Guru poran Avtar unlike radhaswami guru who twist gurbani to suit their own needs (eg- anand sahib puri on sant sajan bhai sarsaie ) or mock amrit sanchar intiation, or mock sri guru gobind singh potrait by sobha singh.

Namdharis fully beleive in shabad guru in tri form- aad guru granth sahib, sri dasam granth, sri sarbloh granth and dont have any their rest of guru's writing nor their claim that is gurbani but anmol bachan. Radhaswamis have pick and choose gurbani to suit their own needs(they claim guru amar das ji refered to their dera- sarsa in anand sahib), they add their guru's writing and claim it gurbani, they are simply creationg of arya samajis, in this regard- namdharis are far better more align with samparda's than radhaswamis who are heretic group.

- Namdharis follow strict amrit vela maryada, akhand patt maryada both sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji, all are strict keshadaris, whereas radhaswami don't since they pick and choose from idealogy of sikhs.

- Namdharis traditions seems more consisent from their guru's to guru's than radhaswamis, traditions like- gurmat sangeet reetiyan going back to guru sahib time, naam dridh akhand patt of sri guru granth sahib ji, sri dasam granth sahib, chandi di // pats. Radhaswamis traditions gets changed as soon they have new guru.

- Namdharis have amrit sanchar intiation with panj singhs giving amrit and gupt naam which is vahiguroo anyway no mixture of mantars like radhaswamis pick one from gurbani and rest add their own, mix khalsa intiations and add their own- recent-pink sarbat which was outrageous too see.

- Namdharis especially their guru's in bhaini sahib had sri guru granth sahib ji fully parkash, i saw that picture myself which my freind showed, satkar was fully given, they all matha taik to first their guru then shabad guru because for them their guru is their ishat dev, gurbani is shabad guru in tri form.. i really wish all the namdharis gurudwara should have parkash of sri guru granth sahib as bhaini sahib, as i saw myself in the picture.. i am willing to even scan picture if people like to see.

- Namdharis as a group have always sided with khalsa panth from the history with an exception of 1984 time, they have always sided with sarbat khalsa- attain shaheediya read their history, help implement sgpc maryada which many sikhs followed, namdharis were invited along with nirmal, udasi, nihang, taksali , akj to implement an maryada. All the takth jathedars along with most sampardava's- nirmal/nihangs/udasi/sevapanthis, master tara singh, sri singh sahib yogi bhajan, bhai avtar singh ji raagi also have immense respect for namdharis. Sri hazoor sahib jathedar had immense respect for baba ram singh ji namdhari.

Namdharis are not heretic far from it, true they have innocently little misguided on lineage issue in my view, everything else they do, beleive, read, interact with is very much sikhi.

In essence, i would request others to follow singh 132 advise not to eat out at all, having moderate level of bibek as jaigaso is beneftical but personally since i eat out, I would without question go to namdhari resturants than going to gorreh resturants, we people have an tendency of assuming just because that person is gorrah/kala , we assume they are christian, therefore in beleif system, they might be atheist or Satan Worshippers for all you know which is even worst as gurbani points nirguraie ka hai naam boora. how do you justify your bias approach then?

[Wicked Warrior]

Sometimes, we get things like samose and barfi from them because they are pure veggie.

[sikh_youth_uk]

i be honest when i went in yesterday i did order something but walked out, before the brain washed simple women came with the food.

Firstly she was takeing too long secondly there were two massive pictures of narmdhri men which i kept on looking at, so i made my mind up.

rs and narmdari leaders always target people with businesses has they have plenty of money to fund their cause. Just go down soho in to most indian jewlers plenty of pictures of rs leader in those jewlery shops.