Michael Jackson

[Khalsa_Girl_1 2]

Check this out

Lotta people say that MJ had a Caucasian Amrit-dhari cook too..

[humkire 107]

keerpa veerjee, in relation to your immediate post b4 this , i think u were a little too harsh on nit picking little faults ppl make wen doing a quick translation from gurmukhi or punjabee to english as they quote relevant verses to make their point . i am sure if you heard these being pronouunced in original by the same ppl they probably sound even better than you and me could pronounce em hahaaa. writing on a forum is not liking writing a book as an intellectual where you are very careful to edit . most ppl just come on , no matter how good or bad their english or power of translation is and read a thread , quickly type their thoughts and are gone . its all being part of the family no matter how good or bad is someone's grasp of languages and ability to translate . would be nice to see you show more softness , try to focus on the point being made and let more of your compassion and love and tenderness to your brothers and sisters show through . if all i wanted was to express my opinions bout things i might as well write a book , but coming on this site is akin to enjoying showing love to the rest of the family , showing appreciation , encouraging ppl ,and contributing in a positive constructive way that makes others feel you are not head strong but rather wise ,gentle and caring .

ohhhh you mean "candy-coat" yeah I dont do that . hahahaha

i am sure if you heard these being pronouunced in original by the same ppl they probably sound even better than you and me could pronounce em hahaaa.

Like what "vekh ke andit kerna' htas not correct at all, not a mere "slipping on a letter' but totally changing the word. I am in super depth study of santhiya and do strict study of pronounciation so people that have been Sikhs for like 10 times longer than me should know how to speak or read correctly.

I simply speak my mind, if someone has completely changed a word then I will red flag it, cuase as you say kids comeone here and might continue your vocabulary of "vekh ke kerna" or "sarbat da pala" or 'pul chuk maaf" All of which are as backwards as like saying we live on planet Girf.

its all being part of the family no matter how good or bad is someone's grasp of languages and ability to translate .

"vekh ke andit kerna" "pul chuk maaf" "sarbat da pala" are not translated at all it is transliterated and not just poorly but incorrectly, Guru Gobind Singh himself would have told you off for that, he also would tell me off when I do and I always keep that in the front of my mind.

"That person who does not respect and fear Gurbani cannot be my Sikh."

(Gurpartap Suraj Granth)

At Sri Anandpur Sahib, a Singh was reading Gurbani slightly wrong and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji said, "O Singh! You are breaking my limbs." This is why Guru Sahib Ji taught and explained all the meanings and correct discourses of Gurbani to a number of Singhs. The chosen Singh’s would then pass on this

knowledge, understanding and correct pronunciation of Gurbani to all.

"Oh Sikhs, listen to this teaching - recite Gurbani correctly (i.e. pronounce it correctly). Read it and obtain many pleasures, herein and thereafter."

Satguru ji gave the utmost respect to Gurbani in all his ten forms.

One day, a Sikh was reciting the a holy composition from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He read the line, "Karte kee mit Karta jaanai, 'ke' jaanai Gur soora". (The word 'kai' was wrongly pronounced. He pronounced it as 'ke').

When Guru Ji listened to this, he ordered his Sikhs to cane the man. Other Sikhs prayed, "Guru Ji, why did you get this Sikh caned? A person, who recites even a single line of your bani, he is liberated; but this Sikh recited (whole of the composition of) 'Oankaar' and is beaten".

Guru Ji smiled and said, "Brother! He did not 'research' before reading."

Guru Ji asked that Sikh what he read. The Sikh again read that line wrongly.

Guru Ji said "Pronounce this line, as 'Karte kee mit Kartaa jaanai, 'kai' jaanai Gur soora'.

"Brother! The meaning of this line is like this, 'The Creator knows His extent or the warrior Guru knows'. This Sikh mispronounced a vowel, which distorted the meanings like this, 'The Creator knows His extent. What does Guru know?' This is the contrary meaning.

Sikh brothers! He, who pronounces the bani accurately, will be liberated. One who does not recite the Bani correctly will be punished.”

So watch what you are reciting/reading, and you think Im harsh about mispronouncing, if someone misleading people with wayyyyy incorrect Ardas then its best for me or anyone else that notices to correct the person so they dont continue the beeaadbi further.

veerjee you really need to stop getting paranoid that anybody on here is asking you to candy coat anything and getting yourself off the pedestal of a holier than thou attitude. A Sikh is not one who is quick brush off other people's wisdom and advice but tries to gain an insight into what another brother/sister may be trying to share. You are really preaching to the converted by reemphasising again and again the need for correct pronunciation of Gurbani. My advice is take a few deep breaths and chill and relax a bit. The original purpose of this thread is about a celebrity called MJ and various Sikhs on here are trying to grapple with how to interpret this celebrity and his death from a sikhi viewpoint as its a contemporary issue we keep reading about in the media.Its a weakness ,not a strength to start correcting people's grammar and sentences in the middle of them talking to you .

The topic of correct transliteration and translation of Gurbani into german or english or french or chinese or eritrean , ethiopian or maori language is a totally different issue which deserves a separate thread you are entitled and encouraged to start. Thats because especially with Sikhs settling down in so many countries with their own national languages, there is an increasing need to ensure that Gurbani is being accurately transliterated and translated into every possible known language of the world. Dont get me wrong , this is infact an increasingly critical and important issue and it needs to be addressed urgently without any candy coating. Infact you could write a book on it as its close to your heart.

But do read my earlier reply very slowly and carefully . I am only trying to help you, and if you think you are wiser than a lot of people on here , and do not appreciate corrections to the trend of your thoughts and feel you have sussed it all out , and if indeed you feel other people on here are less committed in their faith than you , and love to candy coat and compromise with Sikhi , then it will be better for me to not sacrifice my time and effort in replying to you.

[KEERPA 2]

You are really preaching to the converted by reemphasising again and again the need for correct pronunciation of Gurbani.

Yes I am emphasising the correctness of speaking Gurbani correct. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj also was very strict in santhiya so dont think Im the only Sikh that stresses the need to not say "vekh ke andit kerna" when in fact is "DEKH ke andit KEETA".

veerjee you really need to stop getting paranoid that anybody on here is asking you to candy coat anything and getting yourself off the pedestal of a holier than thou attitude.

holier than thou nah, correcting someone that is completely incorrect YES

Its a weakness ,not a strength to start correcting people's grammar and sentences in the middle of them talking to you .

So was it a weakness of Guru Sahib to get the Sikh caned for saying Gurbani wrong???????? hmmmmm????????? Im not interupting your sentence as this is a forum, in person yes it also sometimes is needed to correct someone while they are talking.... (cant wait to see your answer )

there is an increasing need to ensure that Gurbani is being accurately transliterated and translated

Sure so why not start right here correcting your statement of "vekh ke andit kerna" Why? because there is an increasing need to ensure that Gurbani is being accuratly transliterarted and translated

I am only trying to help you, and if you think you are wiser than a lot of people on here , and do not appreciate corrections to the trend of your thoughts and feel you have sussed it all out , and if indeed you feel other people on here are less committed in their faith than you , and love to candy coat and compromise with Sikhi , then it will be better for me to not sacrifice my time and effort in replying to you.

wow contradictions contradictions, so If you are the ustad Ji then are you "holier than thou" or if I correct completely wrong statements then I am supposedly "holier than thou"??????????? If I teach someone something then I "think Im so wise and awesome " but when you always say "read my post" "read my post slowly' etc that is saying that you have the right of way by teaching people what you need to say but when I do I have to back down??? :lol: So yeliding the floor to someone that says "vekh ke andit kerna" is a huge blunder if I dont correct you Ji If you want to ignore my posts thats fine with me but brushing off my advice of needing to "maybe proof read your posts" is a sort of ignorance Ji

As conversations morph so does a thread in a forum. While your at it go to every thread and make sure they are strictly about the title of the topic and complain to all those who get a subject "related" to the thread subject :lol: :D

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

[AmarjitKaur 13]

You are really preaching to the converted by reemphasising again and again the need for correct pronunciation of Gurbani.

Yes I am emphasising the correctness of speaking Gurbani correct. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj also was very strict in santhiya so dont think Im the only Sikh that stresses the need to not say "vekh ke andit kerna" when in fact is "DEKH ke andit KEETA".

Veerji, why do I smell ego here?? why do I smell krodh here??

If it is indeed there, could we bring it down please. I am sure babaji is as unhappy with ego/krodh in his SIKHS as much as he is with incorrect pronunciation.

jin prem kiyo tin hee prabh pa.iyo

(sorry, if you find some mistakes in above tuk, but I know what I am saying)

We don't have to keep repeating the same thing over and over. It is dekh ke aN dith keeta. Sarbat da bhala. if you find faults in my roman gurmukhi, please buy a ticket for me to come to you to learn or you fly to east coast. Lets have a real face to face class.

waheguru waheguru.

we can use your knowledge, your energy, your wisdom, your time on other topics as well.

Thank you jee, for listening.

Gur fateh.

[KEERPA 2]

Veerji, why do I smell ego here?? why do I smell krodh here??

people please dont pull out the ego and anger card please. It is not ego to correct someone, it is not an anger issue with teaching someone not to say incorrect pronunciations. I will use this example, lets say some guy walked into the Darbar Sahib with shoes on and no turban or at least rumala k? is it ego to tell the guy to get out of here with shoes on???? is it ego to tell the person to cover their head before coming into Darbar Sahib???????? Are you angry if someone did that??????? is it anger that starts a debate???? (maybe sometimes) but in this case I am correcting a completely wrong statement by my brother. Im sure he knows the correct way to say what he needed to correct (for his own good of doing Ardas correct) Did I gain anything from correcting him????(NO) Did he gain something for correcting his Ardas???(YES) Please dont use the "holier than thou" card as this is saying any teacher whether teaching Kirtan/Panjabi/Santhiya/Gurmat is teaching out of ego and angry if they get students that continue to struggle with a subject, this is saying the teacher is helping the students they are not flunking a student out of lifes journey. If a teacher gives a test and a student fails the test with a "F" grade does the teacher give that grade out of ego as in the teacher knows how to pass the test but the student needs to sharpen up their learning on the particular subject???? Does the teacher get full of anger just because someone might not have passed the class??? Now if someone is saying something relevant and true in a subject and someone is ignorant to the truth just because of who said it then which one is falling to ego???? what makes ignorance??? [two factors one or both 1. false information or 2. ego] If someone dont want to listen out of ego then it creates ignorance, but in a case where the information is false then it is a good thing to be ignorant, am I saying false information??? if so let me know where I am posting false information and I will be gladly looking forward into how I can change that.

Please dont use cards that are incorrect. Seriously I deal with a surrounding amount of people who always critisise me and try to run me off because they must feel insecure with their Sikhi. I deal with people being racist(which is against Sikhi) I have people try to test me all the time. I had a babaJi from India come to my house just to test me and after 45mins of being grilled they said he was quite impressed of my knowledge of Sikhi from such a short time of being a Sikh and putting up with the bad half of the punjabi community. His jatha all left my house pretty happy with themselves, did I gain anything??? (no other than knowing people try to test me all the time) Perserverance is the key to understanding Sikhi not intellect, intellect has flaws while perserverance shapes your bad into good while there are scholars out there who "think they know it all" ie. a scholar mcleod (who just died either last month or two months ago) was not educated with santhiya in Gurmukhi and was a bias christian missionary trying to "debunk Sikhi" with saying what-did and what didnt happen in Sikh Sakhis. His information was strictly from "translations" and on one issue regarding the Kartarpur Bir he never actually studied or read or seen it and only got his information from another source (which was incorrect) and based his whole studies off of false scholars. SO... if you go back to his scholarly information (which because he recieved a phd in Sikh history was considered true because he went to a certain school etc) Everything was wrong in his academic studies and he still recieved a phd.... now if he perservered through finding his faults and correcting them then he might have figured he has a long way to go in order to recieve this suppoed "phd in SIkh History". Two reasons why he didnt care for false info 1. he was a christian and needs to make Sikhs not a credible religion for the world masses, and 2. he needed to be a scholar to have others that read his writings to not step into the classroom and just take his supposedly "scholar information" and ridicule Sikhs with it for the christian worlds benefit by using his false information that has been dressed up as true by his "phd'.

again please dont pull out the ego card from me trying to help my brother out with stressing the need to know the Gurbani you are posting on a world known forum, false information is absorbed quickly by many while the deep truth is only wanted by a few people. This goes into the same subject of those that are Amritdhari supposedly "think they are better than everyone" which is a cheap excuse for those who dont follow Guru Gobind Singhs Marg of Gurmat Sikhi.

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

[AmarjitKaur 13]

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Vaheguru

Are we cool, veerji? now lets focus on other topics.

[humkire 107]

keerpa veerjee, i am getting the impression that you just have not grasped some of things i have tried to tell you . You have pointed out some common errors made in transliteration and i have already told you that ,yessss , its important . i have evven encouraged you to start a new thread on it which you have not done yet because i think your concern is very important . I have tried to explain that wen we all get on this forum , we tend to type stuff in free style , treating it like a running conversation rather than writing a book or university essay where everything is carefully sanitised, edited and checked. Dont assume or get elated that if a person said vekh rather than dekh in some quick passing reference in cyber, that you have suddenly caught out someone making that mistake in real , all thruout their life and need to 'correct' such a person. Far from it!. I am sure you have used a wrong word here and there many a time in your life but people dont make an issue out of it because they understand . I have seen the best of Sikh preachers and ragis pronouncing a word wrongly, even within Darbar Sahib, accidently and thats life. Your point has been accepted and appreciated and i dont see the need to keep harping on about it and feel you are being rejected or ignored. I remember i corrected you once for wanting cracked music software but i never harped on about it again and again.

Secondly, we are all the same here . None is pretending to be a teacher . we come here , talk to each other , share beautiful thoughts and Sikhi and are gone . you must trust that people read wot you say and take in the wisdom you share, ,but you have to give an impression that you do the same, else for all your beautiful ideals , you end up to be seen as egoistic ,defensive and argumentative. there is a time to make a point , hear a person's appreciation and explanation in reply and then back off , rather than behave as if u are trying to draw someone into a battle .

Thirdly , you need to focus on cultivating Sikhi in your life and sharing it , than to judge whether other ppl are inconfident or candy coating or wotever. If you do feel someone's Sikhi is in dehndee kela than help such a person, considering yourself lower than them.

Fourthly, if ever another Sikh gets an impression that you are being egoistic and says it to you on your face, never be too quick to turn around and accuse them of pulling out the ego card. Its a very serious matter if thats the impression someone is getting for anything you have said. The best thing to do in such a situation is to shut yourself up ,and go through a process of self reflection and ponder how on earth did you end up making someone feel that way about yourself, as the hall mark of Sikhs towards one another has to be humility . Thats probably among the top 10 items in a gursikh's rehat list as ego is a very dangerous hidden enemy and when you take Amrit , it even changes form and camaflauges itself in xpressions of righteousness and religiousity. In my life no matter how right i feel i am , the moment anyone were to say im being egostic , i know thats wen i need to shut up and beg that person to pray to God to make me humble apart from reflecting as to how i ended up creating such an impression ,even if i was right . I want to be right but be felt as being humble , not ,right but felt to be egoistic .

That person you addressed about the ego card as 'people' was not 'people' . That was bhenjee amarjit kaur , a very blessed amritdharee bibi who in the midst of having to work, and cook for and look after her family and kids, still manages to sacrifice her precious time by coming here and writing the most inspirational of posts.It brings tears to my eyes that a married Sikh lady with so much on her plate can come on this sikh youth site and share her time with us. I would consider it utterly rude and very un-gurmukh to call a sikh woman as 'people'. you are concerned that this site is used by people from the world over but then u use cultural english calling your gursikh brothers and sisters as 'people', rather than 'sangat jee' or gurmukho'. Gurbani says ''methth nivi Nanaka ,gun chengiayia tat''.

When you love Gurujee, there is always a tendency to be headstrong but also try to be dove -like in character , gentle in spirit , and kind and compassionate . There are a lot of posts i put up on this sit e and other sikh sites, but they are not based on a lifetime spent talking a lot but .... based on a lifetime of learning to shut my gap a lot and listen to the wisdom of many many many many blessed Gursikhs over the last 52 years of this little life. and what i have realised is ''hum nehi changeh,bura nehi koee'' .

As most of you can see i make a lot of typing errors ,millions of them in every post i write because honestly im not computer literate as i come from an older generation and i type all this with one finger and it takes me a long long time to write even 1 sentence correctly as i need to look to screen to see every word im typing and sometimes i write a long post ,press one button as im also poor sighted and the post dissapears then i start all over again feeling so stupid . but i only do this because i want to come on here to show you young youth that i am soooooooooooo very proud of you and want to give you my 100% suppoort as im soooooooooo happy in my heart that sikh youths have a website which preaches Gursikh jeewan and promotes Sikhism . I dont even see this as a website . i see this as a beautiful Gurudwara and as i read all your names, next to your posts i try to picture how beautiful you all look as sahibzadas and sahibzadian of my Gurujee and i almost feel im seeing you real before my eyes . It energises me and brings great chardikela to my soul as i read all your beautiful posts and learn from your inspired generation of all the wonderful young sikhs here ,talking ,sharing ,arguing ,loving and teaching each other and me . i could easily just ignore all this and just mix with people of my own age but my spirit is determined to give my 100% support to all of you and share whatever Gurujee taught and blessed me with in my small little life before i akal chelana . In my generation we struggled without any modern technology and you have no idea how lucky you are to have this website . i desire that the day i chelana , i would have time to say fateh to all of you on that day on here just before . I come here everyday no matter how busy i am in my life, even for 2 minutes at least everyday just to make a point that i am with you and read the latest beautiful thing anyone has said about Sikhi .

[AmarjitKaur 13]

keerpa veerjee, i am getting the impression that you just have not grasped some of things i have tried to tell you . You have pointed out some common errors made in transliteration and i have already told you that ,yessss , its important . i have evven encouraged you to start a new thread on it which you have not done yet because i think your concern is very important . I have tried to explain that wen we all get on this forum , we tend to type stuff in free style , treating it like a running conversation rather than writing a book or university essay where everything is carefully sanitised, edited and checked. Dont assume or get elated that if a person said vekh rather than dekh in some quick passing reference in cyber, that you have suddenly caught out someone making that mistake in real , all thruout their life and need to 'correct' such a person. Far from it!. I am sure you have used a wrong word here and there many a time in your life but people dont make an issue out of it because they understand . I have seen the best of Sikh preachers and ragis pronouncing a word wrongly, even within Darbar Sahib, accidently and thats life. Your point has been accepted and appreciated and i dont see the need to keep harping on about it and feel you are being rejected or ignored. I remember i corrected you once for wanting cracked music software but i never harped on about it again and again.

Secondly, we are all the same here . None is pretending to be a teacher . we come here , talk to each other , share beautiful thoughts and Sikhi and are gone . you must trust that people read wot you say and take in the wisdom you share, ,but you have to give an impression that you do the same, else for all your beautiful ideals , you end up to be seen as egoistic ,defensive and argumentative. there is a time to make a point , hear a person's appreciation and explanation in reply and then back off , rather than behave as if u are trying to draw someone into a battle .

Thirdly , you need to focus on cultivating Sikhi in your life and sharing it , than to judge whether other ppl are inconfident or candy coating or wotever. If you do feel someone's Sikhi is in dehndee kela than help such a person, considering yourself lower than them.

Fourthly, if ever another Sikh gets an impression that you are being egoistic and says it to you on your face, never be too quick to turn around and accuse them of pulling out the ego card. Its a very serious matter if thats the impression someone is getting for anything you have said. The best thing to do in such a situation is to shut yourself up ,and go through a process of self reflection and ponder how on earth did you end up making someone feel that way about yourself, as the hall mark of Sikhs towards one another has to be humility . Thats probably among the top 10 items in a gursikh's rehat list as ego is a very dangerous hidden enemy and when you take Amrit , it even changes form and camaflauges itself in xpressions of righteousness and religiousity. In my life no matter how right i feel i am , the moment anyone were to say im being egostic , i know thats wen i need to shut up and beg that person to pray to God to make me humble apart from reflecting as to how i ended up creating such an impression ,even if i was right . I want to be right but be felt as being humble , not ,right but felt to be egoistic .

That person you addressed about the ego card as 'people' was not 'people' . That was bhenjee amarjit kaur , a very blessed amritdharee bibi who in the midst of having to work, and cook for and look after her family and kids, still manages to sacrifice her precious time by coming here and writing the most inspirational of posts.It brings tears to my eyes that a married Sikh lady with so much on her plate can come on this sikh youth site and share her time with us. I would consider it utterly rude and very un-gurmukh to call a sikh woman as 'people'. you are concerned that this site is used by people from the world over but then u use cultural english calling your gursikh brothers and sisters as 'people', rather than 'sangat jee' or gurmukho'. Gurbani says ''methth nivi Nanaka ,gun chengiayia tat''.

When you love Gurujee, there is always a tendency to be headstrong but also try to be dove -like in character , gentle in spirit , and kind and compassionate . There are a lot of posts i put up on this sit e and other sikh sites, but they are not based on a lifetime spent talking a lot but .... based on a lifetime of learning to shut my gap a lot and listen to the wisdom of many many many many blessed Gursikhs over the last 52 years of this little life. and what i have realised is ''hum nehi changeh,bura nehi koee'' .

As most of you can see i make a lot of typing errors ,millions of them in every post i write because honestly im not computer literate as i come from an older generation and i type all this with one finger and it takes me a long long time to write even 1 sentence correctly as i need to look to screen to see every word im typing and sometimes i write a long post ,press one button as im also poor sighted and the post dissapears then i start all over again feeling so stupid . but i only do this because i want to come on here to show you young youth that i am soooooooooooo very proud of you and want to give you my 100% suppoort as im soooooooooo happy in my heart that sikh youths have a website which preaches Gursikh jeewan and promotes Sikhism . I dont even see this as a website . i see this as a beautiful Gurudwara and as i read all your names, next to your posts i try to picture how beautiful you all look as sahibzadas and sahibzadian of my Gurujee and i almost feel im seeing you real before my eyes . It energises me and brings great chardikela to my soul as i read all your beautiful posts and learn from your inspired generation of all the wonderful young sikhs here ,talking ,sharing ,arguing ,loving and teaching each other and me . i could easily just ignore all this and just mix with people of my own age but my spirit is determined to give my 100% support to all of you and share whatever Gurujee taught and blessed me with in my small little life before i akal chelana . In my generation we struggled without any modern technology and you have no idea how lucky you are to have this website . i desire that the day i chelana , i would have time to say fateh to all of you on that day on here just before . I come here everyday no matter how busy i am in my life, even for 2 minutes at least everyday just to make a point that i am with you and read the latest beautiful thing anyone has said about Sikhi .

I know we don't do clapping in SIKHI, please allow me to have a Jaikara..................

Boleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee soooooooooooo nihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

Sat sriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal.

Please don't be confused that I did jaikara for veerji putting some nice comments for me (that will feed my ego, I rather not let it), the Jaikara is for veerji sharing lot with me. Considering this site as Gurudwara and readers/contributers as cyber sangat. saying that we are all learners not teachers, preachers, knowing more than others kind of sangat. saying that we share what we have got so far, and ready to learn what others have to offer. Considering that we are tuchh (knowing nothing), just that we like to be part of the sangat. It gives pleasure and great comfort knowing that our words might have helped someone and at the same time, when somedays our boat is shaking we know where to come for support, for chardi kala. Considering that all those teens,young or older adults who are the silent readers, come to this site to learn, to lift up their spiritis from day to day. And if all of us, could be as +ve, as possible, it is lifting up the spirits of sangat. We are giving back to community. When I do ardas after I read my nitnem banis, I beg for "kirt karni, nam japna and vand chhukna". that vand chhukna, I don't just ask for sharing my earnings/ food only, I also mean to share any of little tiny tiniest wisdom I may have ( I know I don't have a lot).

Anyways, time to move on. And its good idea to start a new thread on some words people use/type wrongly.

I know PJs veerji, is still getting over the phenji (I know I can use hawa for myself, its pretty hot here :-)))

[KEERPA 2]

Just to make a quick comment.

Last night we all got together to do reharaas Paath (I drove 1 hour to family sangat) GrandpaJi was the wisest one that was doing the correcting. If we messed up he surelt corrected us and we quickly made the correction and continued on. We did not question him and complain that we were messing up a few times on Guru Gobind Singhs bani, we just knew that he could not allow us to say the Bani wrong (which is a blessing to have someone know everything of the bani, Im talking slightly wrong is wrong and correcting us is good for everyone)

With the ego thing, they ordered pizza and half the family is kewl with eating from nonAmritdharis and other half has discrimination from eating foods etc. When the arguement came down to "you guys think you are better" all we could do is say "you eat what you want and we eat what we want" and we have already argued this out and it will never end, so sometimes people use an ego card and its not ego, we simply are following Gurbani.

ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

maaran paahi haraam mehi hoe halaal n jaae ||

By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.

lgy idvwn mUl n jwvY rihq ibnw pRswd bRqwvY ]

lagae dhivaan mool n jaavai rehith binaa prasaadh brathaavai ||

Sinful are those who show disrespect while in the Divaan; sinful are those who distribute food or Parshaad in the Gurdwara without living a life according to the code of conduct.

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

SO Im glad we all came to an understanding and can step away from this thread as a finished conversation, with all our personal points established

If anyone wants to talk about Micheal Jackson then go for it but the side subject has been spoken , kewl????

[Sarbat da Pala 31]

In our ardas we pray 'vekh ke andith kerna'.

I dont say "vekh" as this totally completely changes the meaning of the true words as "DEKH ke anditt kitta" say it correctly as in read the Panjabi it does not contain the letter "V" because if it was a "V" it wouldnt have the letter "D"

Pul Chuk Maaf.

"pull" chuk maaf????????? The word in panjabi starts with a "B" switching the letter B with a P just screws up what the word means.

sarbat da "Pala"

People you need to start reading the panjabi letters, it is not "sarbat da "pala"" It is a "B" as in bumble bee not pumple pee.

If you cant even pronounce the prayer correctly then what value can it hold, you can really mess up the meaning of the words by replacing the correct letter with an incorrect one.

Basically its like saying "Beace pe abon you" or saying we are "Zikhs" or Waheguru Ji Ki Vateh"(excuse my delibrate misspelling of the holy GurFateh Guru Sahib, just trying to prove a point)

Say the correct words and letters, learn that ph or B or bh sound is different than the F sound, learn that the P sound is not the b sound etc etc etc.....

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Now as to my comment about MJackson not Micheal Jordan He could help all the people in the world with money but helping his spiritual life and actions is the only thing that matters. Doing seva is supposed to help your spiritual life but isnt your spiritual life, he can buy evey kids clothes in the world but what is the use if doing evil actions??????????????

ਪੁੰਨ ਦਾਨ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਚੇ ਕਿਆ ਤਾਸੁ ॥

punn dhaan changiaaeeaa bin saachae kiaa thaas ||

you may give donations to charity, and perform good deeds, but without the True One, what is the use of it all?

Being clever by being the stupidest of fools and doing fruitless seva is just a waste of money and effort.

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

sehas siaanapaa lakh hohi th eik n chalai naal ||

Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.

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ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੁਗਧ ਕਰਹਿ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ॥

manamukh mugadhh karehi chathuraaee ||

The idiotic self-willed manmukhs try to be clever,

ਨਾਤਾ ਧੋਤਾ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥

naathaa dhhothaa thhaae n paaee ||

but in spite of their bathing and washing, they shall not be acceptable.

ਜੇਹਾ ਆਇਆ ਤੇਹਾ ਜਾਸੀ ਕਰਿ ਅਵਗਣ ਪਛੋਤਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥

jaehaa aaeiaa thaehaa jaasee kar avagan pashhothaavaniaa ||2||

As they came, so shall they go, regretting the mistakes they made. ||2||

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧੇ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ॥

manamukh andhhae kishhoo n soojhai ||

The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not understand anything;

ਮਰਣੁ ਲਿਖਾਇ ਆਏ ਨਹੀ ਬੂਝੈ ॥

maran likhaae aaeae nehee boojhai ||

death was pre-ordained for them when they came into the world, but they do not understand.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਏ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥

manamukh karam karae nehee paaeae bin naavai janam gavaavaniaa ||3||

The self-willed manmukhs may practice religious rituals, but they do not obtain the Name; without the Name, they lose this life in vain.

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ਲਖ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਜੇ ਕਰੀ ਲਖ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਪੁ ॥

lakh siaanap jae karee lakh sio preeth milaap ||

Even if someone has hundreds of thousands of clever mental tricks, and the love and company of hundreds of thousands of people

ਬਿਨੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਧ੍ਰਾਪੀਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੂਖ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥

bin sangath saadhh n dhhraapeeaa bin naavai dhookh santhaap ||

still, without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, he will not feel satisfied. Without the Name, all suffer in sorrow.

ਹਰਿ ਜਪਿ ਜੀਅਰੇ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਚੀਨੈ ਆਪੁ ॥੩॥

har jap jeearae shhutteeai guramukh cheenai aap ||3||

Chanting the Name of the Lord, O my soul, you shall be emancipated; as Gurmukh, you shall come to understand your own self.-----------------------------------

Bhai Sahib ji for my Nick Name Sarbat da Pala..... for your kind of information I am from Germany. And our Pronouncing is a littlebit different than english one. And for my Punjabi ਮੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਪੜ ਅਤਿ ਬੋਲ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ...

[KEERPA 2]

Bhai Sahib ji for my Nick Name Sarbat da Pala..... for your kind of information I am from Germany. And our Pronouncing is a littlebit different than english one.

VeerJi kindly ask the admin to adjust your account name to be correct(with a"B") main panjabi bahuta aandha hai