Bhram Gyani

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Theywerent brahmgianis, some got attached to maya, some to kaam, others to family. . . read dasm granth maharaj speaks very openely about them.

[lowest of the low singhni]

Should we worship them??

Here are some thoughts, as I have just confused myself in the space of 30 seconds:

Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells us not to call Him God.

Does our Dasmeh Patshah also tell us not to worship him? (I'm not sure, perhaps Khalistan Zindabad will know.)

Was Guru Saheb more than a Brahmgyani? Can there be anything more than a Brahmgyani if Gurbani says Brahmgyani = Akaal Purakh?

I was originally going to say, if Guru Gobind Singh Ji tells us not to worship Him/treat Him as God, then surely we shouldn't do that to a Brahmgyani either. But in light of what Siri Sukhmani Sahib says - seems like worship of such a saint is good - my point seems silly.

And all this confusion leads onto the question, what gives us the right to call someone a Brahmgyani?

[Babbar Shere]

Should we worship them??

ps: i wish i had the same 'something' u are blessed with <_<

inorder to get better understand of this topic, read sukhmani sahib. it talks about bhramgiani's and who can understand them.....

if you seriously wanna know the answer...read the bani....no joke

[Mehtab Singh]

where's Mehtab Singh when you need him

I am the last person who has the potential to post in this thread. I am going to stay out of this.

[OhTwadi]

.

[JustME]

Were Shiva, Bhrma, Vishnu .. and many other gods/avtars Bhramgyanis??

i was listening to Gyani Thankurs Singh Jees katha and he was saying something about Laxmi Devi place is where the sangat take off their shoes and she does johreh di sewa.........

These avtars are exactly like the human only they more powerful and we a weaker spieces, they all fell prey to the 5vices and crave a gurmukh jeevan......... i need to listen to the katha again cos i got totally lost in some places

lolz.. am not questioning Gurbani.. i don't understand the worship part JustME bibi wrote...

i found this tuk but Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Jee Sahib: -

eyk idRsit kir smsir jwxY jogI khIAY soeI ]1] rhwau ]

eaek dhrisatt kar samasar jaanai jogee keheeai soee ||1|| rehaao ||

One who looks upon all with a single eye, and knows them to be one and the same - he alone is known as a Yogi. ||1||Pause||

now Ik-Oan-Kar......the meanings to this as Giani Thankur Singh Jee says are endless and i cant even begin to contemplate the the vastness of "Ik-Oan-Kar" so my murakh mind simplifies this to the general interpretation: "God is One"

everytime bani mentions "ONE-IK" this all ties back to the same "IK" being waheguru..........

so lets aply this to the question at hand of worshiping a braimgyani..............waheguru, guru, man are all of the same joth.......and its this JOTH we should be seeing in everyone........not just a braingyani............now this dont mean you worship everyone u see but when, u reach such an avastha where you can seee waheguru "all-prevading" there is no such thing as "Waheguru, Guru and Man" its becomes just WAHEGURU................ ..............i think..............ok im abit confused..........so ill stop there.......plz forgive my useless rants...........

When we think Gurbani doesn't answer our questions, is it the receiver or the message that is dysfunctional?

a very good point pehnj............i personally think the mind cannot cope with the vastness of bani when clouded by panj chor/maya/"worldly" stuff..............the message is clear but also unique to each person who reads it.............one hukamnana for the panth can extract a thousand different meanings for the person reading it..........and thats the way it was meant to be........the mind is a beautiful thing...........when we use it for its intended purpose.......... but when we look at bani and say "how can that be?" our mind fails to recieve the instruction from waheguru because it is too clouded by the illusion, that, waheguru himself has place in front of that person............as Mahrajee says

Awpy mwieAw Awpy CwieAw ]

aapae maaeiaa aapae shhaaeiaa ||

He Himself is Maya, and He Himself is the Illusion.

Awpy mohu sBu jgqu aupwieAw ]

aapae mohu sabh jagath oupaaeiaa ||

He Himself has generated emotional attachment throughout the entire universe

sikhi seems easy on the outside but to live, breath and BE sikhi is, like maharaj says:

KMinAhu iqKI vwlhu inkI eyqu mwrig jwxw ]

khanni-ahu tikhee vaalahu nikee ayt maarag jaanaa.

The path they take is sharper than a two-edged sword, and finer than a hair.

but like the sword the path is straight and never waivers........

we SHOULD worship guru sahib only. in fact a bhramgyani will ensure that we worship guru sahib and no one else and they won't let anyone else worship them either

okay hers something else to think about and this is where i get confused..........if waheguru, guru and man are all the same, a braimgyani is man, guru and waheguru........so if we do worship him........is it a defect in our perception that we differentiating them as seperate enitities?

because if a bhraimgyani is all of the above we should, in effect, see Guru, Waheguru and Man within him but when we only see waheguru..........our mind loses the perception of him being a "man".......and only "sees" waheguru...............

[wjkk wjkf]

when we say "worship" a braimgyani....is this like matta tekh'ing and stuff like that?

[JustME]

waheguruuuuuuuuuuu.........

this tuk is taken from Shri sukhmani sahib

heres the STTM linnks for the Astpadi http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...&PageNo=272

and it continues over 3 pages

bRhm igAwnI kw kaun jwnY Bydu ]

barahm gi-aanee kaa ka-un jaanai bhayd.

Who can know the mystery of the God-conscious being?

bRhm igAwnI kau sdw Adysu ]

barahm gi-aanee ka-o sadaa adays.

Forever bow to the God-conscious being.

but the whole asdpatti talks about the qualities and vitues of a TRUE braimgyani so before this tuk comes a very beautiful and divine description of the attributes of a Braimgyani and after reading all of this........my murakh mind says how can we NOT bow down to a TRUE braimgiani?

The issues lies in reaching such an avasts in ones self to be able to see past the braimgyani's pysical appearce and see the joth inside of him...............otherwise this tuk can be mis-coinstrewed as being idol worshipping.............yet these are two very different things

Again sorry for the useless rants............me murakh

[khalistan_zindabaad]

A sakhi about sant daler singh jee shahbad valeh comes to mind. . . (nirmaleh mahaourkh)

Once baba jee was doing parkarma of sri darbaar sahib and whilst doing the parkarma sangat who knew who they were started to pay respect saying fateh, bowing to them in the parkarma etc etc. . .a scholar/missionary type giani (similar to alot of the youth today) . .. walked over and started to question baba jee. .. he said what have you got that i havnt, why do ppl respect you, i know all the granths that you do, you are doin beadbi etc etc. . .baba jee then calmly spoke and said will you come with me too do darshan of sree guru granth sahib jee. . .the giani agreed. . .they walked insde to do darshan. . .then baba jee openly did ardaas so that ginai could hear. . .Baba jee joined both of his hands and stated maharaj ''MERA KAKH NA REHE'' meaning ''may i lose everything'' . . .then baba jee asked the giani to do the same ardaas, the ginai outrightly refused. . .thats the difference between sant, mahapurkhs and wanna bees. . .baba jee never had any ichaa and never kept any money on them. . they reached the greatest avastha

[OhTwadi]

Another saakhi from Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee's life.

Once Babaji was travelling with his jatha doing parchaar. They were passing by a village where Baba Isher Singh Jee were staying. So Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee decided to meet Baba Isher Singh Jee.

When a sevadaar at Baba Isher Singh Jee's dera saw Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee coming his way. He quickly ran and told Baba Isher Singh Jee. Babaji without thinking anything started running towards Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee. When he got near, Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee did a dundaut bandna (matha tek by lying flat on the ground) and said, suneya see they ishwer rehnda, aaj darshan vi ho gaye (I had heard that Ishwer(god) lives here, today i have seen for myself

If a bhramgyani bows down to another, why can't we shed our ego and do it too? I would say that we shouldn't bow down to anyone else in hajoori of guru granth sahib jee