The Army And Me

[dalsingh101]

Some of you are overlooking the fact that the US and Saddam had good relations whilst Saddam was doing what he normally did. I think it was Saddam's refusal to play ball over oil that made the yanks turn against him. So, they weren't too bothered about "giving" democracy to Iraqis as claimed by some. This is plain old fashioned imperialism. Also many feel that the western aims of securing an oil pipeline through Afghanistan, Iraq etc. has also influenced foreign policy against these nations. Whilst I feel that the invasion of Afghanistan was an assault on Islamic fundamentalism, the attack on Iraq was nothing of the sort.

The truth is that Saddam never encouraged/fostered Islamic terrorism in Iraq. If anything he had such people killed. The war in Iraq is about nothing but control of resources.

I guess the bigger question we need to ask here is what exactly should the Khalsa fight for and when should they not. This is very important as the purpose of the Khalsa from my understanding was dharam or righteousness. The collateral costs in terms of loss of innocent life and destabilising the area from the actions in Iraq cannot be ignored by anyone claiming to be representing Sikhness. What has been done is morally wrong and justifying the attack because of Saddam's actions is just a smokescreen. There were many ways to deal with this but an invasion was undertaken to take control of the resources in the area. Another little known fact is that Americans are using cheap Latin American poverty stricken people to do security work in Iraq. This is all business.

PLUS - If anything the invasion of Iraq has bolstered and helped Islamic fundamentalism grow. Whatever problems Iraq had before, Islamic fundamentalism wasn't one of them. Now the west has invaded - IT IS.

People should be free to do whatever work they want but having Amritdhari Singhs unquestioningly joining morally undefendable actions isn't a good look for people claiming to represent the Khalsa. (Don't get me wrong I believe Sikhs should have military training but not at the cost of our morality, especially when innocent people are being killed and there are significant doubts over the aims of a war).

Sorry to rant on but I feel this is so important to us as a people.

[dalsingh101]

You know all of this has got me thinking. BIG respect to Dasmesh Pita who fought with his soldiers in any wars he involved himself in. Plus look at how he even sent his sons forward like common soldiers.......screw the Bushs and Blairs of the world who send other peoples children to war but keep their own children and themselves hidden from action like cowards.

[Punjabi_Link]

So, do you guys think Sikhs should be helping out Iraqis to fight against British and American army?

[proactive]

You didnt answer my question, and i never stated I was against war.

I await your response, still...

Classic! You claim the agenda of the British Army was to rape and torture the people of Iraq, take over the resources and now you state that you never said you were against war? I think this says it all. You cannot answer a simple question about what the Socialist answer was to Saddam.

Punjabi Link

Your question is a bit like asking whether the Khalsa could have made common cause with Abdali? Or helped to resurrect the Mughal empire in 1857? What does the Khalsa have in common with Al Qaeda? Or for that matter the insurgents? Could the Khalsa ever be a party to the killing of innocent people? Could the Khalsa be an ally to people who think nothing of using disabled women to set of bombs that kill innocent people?

Dalsingh101

What people seem to conveniently forgot is that when Saddam was first in power there was a cold war going on. Then in 1979 you had the mad mullahs come to power in Iran. Further east you had the USSR walking into Afghanistan. The west had to choose the best option. Either they did nothing and allow soviet influence to increase in Pakistan and then India and similarly watch the advance of extremist Islam towards the gulf states. Saddam offered the first line of defence in west asia and Pakistan offered the other in south asia. Saddam pre-empted everything by starting his war against Iran. In Pakistan the army came into power.

[proactive]

I'm not here to change your or anyone elses' mind but to give an alternative opinion. You seem to think that I have a vendetta against you and to be honest I don't know how you got that idea. I only respond to those threads which are of interest to me so if some of these threads are yours then that only shows that we have similar interests although on the opposite ends of the spectrum with regards to politics.

[dalsingh101]

So, do you guys think Sikhs should be helping out Iraqis to fight against British and American army?

Brother it seems of late we can't even defend ourselves against aggressors let alone help anyone else. I think we need to concentrate on getting our own strength and numbers up before we even contemplate helping anyone. This is not being selfish but realistic. It's like the old saying goes "You can't really help anyone else until you can help yourselves"

We need to good values of our culture to permeate in all of our hearts which is easier said than done because humans seem to have a natural bias towards selfishness from what I'm seeing.

[hellosingh]

hi all REMEMBER ME THE GUY WHO STARTED THE THREAD OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have read the replies and i can honestly say that i understand where all u guys are coming from but yet it like i have taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

i understand fully that the British army in the past havent done good but i believe that every1 is able to change and create a new chapter in their lives, the bad things done by the British army in iraq and afganistan are done only by a minority and we all understand that once a certain type of indivual create havoc it gives the whole army a bad reputation, my teacher at secondary school taught us that it takes a long time for a person to create a good reputation but it takes only a split second to lose that respect.

in every single religion, organisation or group there are always some kind of bad people, and its always the bad situation we see and judge instead of those good people who have devoted their attire life to help others. dont get me wrong those people who create misery of other people should be brought to justice.

this is the whole reason why i want to join the army, TO HELP THOSE WHO NEED IT, i cant say it more simpler then that, the idea of fightin for a white superorder doesnt enter my head once because i just want to help people, and that its my only agenda.

when i see those images of girls in afganistan that are not allow to go to school, i feel that its not fair that these girls are missing out on basic education that we take 4 granted just because a few big headed ego people believe that its not a right place 4 a women 2 be in and her place is at home.

i feel no closer on deciding on whether or not to join the army but lastly i just want to add that this is not just about iraq and afganisatn but fightin 4 justice around the world, countrys like darfur where ethic clensing is takin place and also zibawe where the president doesnt care about his own people and lets them stave to death, livin in fear from the very people u seek protection from. i dont just believe but i know that as sikhs we should be helpin these people just because they are 1000 miles away doesnt mean we just sweep it under the rug or give £10 to charity and then say we have done our bit.

i have got more 2 say but i be here all day, i just hope the sangat can understand why i wanted to join the army, and dont judge me to be those indivual who join the army to make other people life misery but instead make a diffrence in there lifes.

[lowest sikh]

So I ask you again, you wrote that the british army was raping civilians in Iraq. SO PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE OR WITHDRAW YOUR COMMENT!

Proactive, What I think is that u have been completelu brain washed with what u see n listen on TV and around u. u have to understand all this media, newspapers they all doing same things keeping facts away from people llike me n u. biggest ex is punjab gov used every part of its system till today we dont know the facts.

SO U WANT THE FACTS:

rent this documentary 9/11 if u havent seen it tells u about how bush won elections and in its end part they have shown how iraqi people r cursing every western country for attacking them burning there homes and actually it shows an attack by soliders on a home as well how they use power agaist woman kids there r thousands more like the one i just mentioned.

just to tell u u know how big is arms industry how mant hundreds of billions of $ are in wars all the big arms companies, airlines, food industry, cloth industry, automobile industry u know how much they earn in every war? do u have any idea how much money they make? no idea becoz no one want to tell u that u and me never thought, how many civil planes r used to carry these soliders thousands r fighting they keep going and coming back so someone is making money in that war isnt it.

have u heard of BLACK WATER if not google it one person who owns it has become billonarie just in iraq war he ll never want to end war he is earning money

all these wars they all about money in the end by compnaies, some people earning it.

u know ur former prime minister how much assests he have what he was he is a member of illuminati group may u never heard of it

its very deep we cant even imagine my friend. what i want to say is we shouldnt beleive any of those becoz its all lies we r listening do ur home workdont expect others to provide factsmay be this will change ur thinking about wars

[Jaspaul Singh]

Agreed ... never believe media to be 100% accurate ! That documentary on 9/11 was an eye opener :D

[proactive]

Lowest Sikh,

It's strange to be accused of being brainwashed by someone who believes in the Illuminati! Do you also believe that the freemasons and the Jews run the world as well? Was 9/11 an 'inside job'? Yeah 9/11 documentary definitive word in Iraq. Try reading up on the subject and then form an opinion. As for the moneymaking, hasn't Micheal Moore also made millions from Fahrenheit 9/11?