T-shirts Stir Debate At Surrey School

[Punjabi_Link]

yeh thats when he just came from canada and was a beginner. yeh trust me I can tell if those pics on the bottom are trimmed beard or not....just look at the facial hair, looks so natural beard man, if u cant figure out that then u just blind. look at the bottom pic i posted with him wearing a dhumalla and u can see the gatra and as well natural lookin hair.

Look at it again. He has no hair on his cheek. His goatee is trimmed.

Beard = hair all over your face.

If you can't understand this, then please don't bother replying back to me.

[Punjabi_Link]

More mona shaheeds:

Here's the picture of that "mona" without his turban:

[buddasingh]

I see we don’t know his name here… perhaps out of respect, the place we want to take this discussion is to ask what was this brother’s name, who his family is, and anything else we may know about him.

Can someone volunteer this information?

[Muzumdar]

This is an interesting discussion that has demonstrated a number of things.

Firstly, it has always irked me how the Indian Government and various medias (Indian, Canadian etc) have depicted the 1980s struggle as a fundamentalist-extremist one when, in reality, it was far more complex than that.

For example, does anybody here know that one of Sant Jarnail Singh's chief 'hit-men' was a 'Sahajdhari' Sikh? (His name was Surinder Singh and is mentioned in Ram Narayan Kumar's 'the Sikh unrest and the Indian State'). Not to mention the 'Sahajdhari' Sikhs who had been part of the larger body politic of the Sikh community's upper echelons right up until 1849?

Did anybody know about the 'Sahajdhari' Sikhs - like those in the pictures - who gave their shaheedi for the Quam before commenting on this forum to vent their 'disgust' at those kids because they are 'moneh'? I doubt it. Because the comments seem to have been ignorantly and rashly made.

It seems that some of our less educated brothers have decided to accept the Indian government's and media's depiction of the struggle as a purely theocratic one, while failing to analyse the period and the people in any detail whatsoever.

Secondly, this thread indicates the differences between Sikhs in the West and Sikhs living in Punjab.

Sikhs living in Punjab do not give a damn if you are 'Sahajdhari/Kesdhari/Amritdhari'; if you commit your life to the betterment of the Sikhs, you are shown respect and are loved as a Sikh without any judgment (hence: Kartar Singh Sarabha, Udham Singh, Bhagat Singh etc etc).

However, many Sikhs in the West are unable to grasp this reality or way of thinking.

Is it any wonder that the movement for Khalistan is moribund when certain people cannot even grasp the ground realities in Punjab?

[Guest peacemaker]

I see we don't know his name here… perhaps out of respect, the place we want to take this discussion is to ask what was this brother's name, who his family is, and anything else we may know about him.

Can someone volunteer this information?

I agree with you, buddasingh. Constantly referring to this gentleman as the "mona shaheed", seems kind of disrespectful. We need a name on this beautiful face and information on this life he gave for the Khalsa Panth!

[khalsaforce]

I am pretty sure its BHAI HARJINDER SINGH PARA from canada, who joined KLF of Bhai avtar singh brahma...

[khalsaforce]

hello pajji or pehnji,

Did u read where I mention the last picture of him with kesri dhumalla, bana, and u can see the gatra?why would he trim his beard still? thats the same guy..some people dont have full grown beard and some dont even have beard at all..so blame it on them for shaving or trimming when they cant even grow any beard?

yeh thats when he just came from canada and was a beginner. yeh trust me I can tell if those pics on the bottom are trimmed beard or not....just look at the facial hair, looks so natural beard man, if u cant figure out that then u just blind. look at the bottom pic i posted with him wearing a dhumalla and u can see the gatra and as well natural lookin hair.

Look at it again. He has no hair on his cheek. His goatee is trimmed.

Beard = hair all over your face.

If you can't understand this, then please don't bother replying back to me.

[S1ngh]

.... What is your response, what would you say if a shaheed who died as monah stood before you?

I would say I am in awe and indebted to their love for humanity. I could only wish that given the opportunity, I had their courage to put love for humanity before my own life ----regardless of their appearance or faith claim.

I would also say that I am far lesser Sikh than them, but to be Sikh, we need to give our head to guruji on this earth and that means sikhi saroop.

Shaheedi in Sikhi includes a discipline of principle one assumes while alive. If a monas shaheedi for sikhi alone makes him sikh, then Guru Teg Bahadur's shaheedi for the hindus would make him hindu.

Bros MKLQ and Singhavelli,

I have the utmost respect for your intelligent postings on this forum and I agree with much of what you say in this thread. I prefer to have a spirited discussion without engaging in chest beating. I think these kids need to be supported, but also cautioned to be respectful not to misrepresent sikhi.

It is obvious that the majority if not all of those kids, claim they are sikhs in some form. I support their right to wear the t-shirts, however, hope they understand the extreme humility that needs to come with wearing such a shirt, so any claim to sikhi of theirs, does not malign the significance of sikhi saroop.

Are they willfully blind in representing to the public that sikhi saroop is optional for a Sikh? How many of us are willfully blind in representing that sikhi saroop is optional? Is it then really sikhi, where we offer our heads in humility, that we care to protect, or our own ego?

The point needs to be made that a Sikh must be dignified enough to know Sikh values before fighting for others as a Sikh. Sikhi saroop is part and parcel of sikh values. It can not be parsed. One can not take a stance for values yet blatantly violate the same values.

There are limited justifications to a claim to sikhi while violating sikhi, One is a being a minor who is learning. We have an entire generation of incompetent and ill educated parents. The other justification when one of us does not maintain sikhi saroop, is we remain extremely humble about our claim to sikhi and rather than justify ourselves, we insist that sikhi = amritdhari and nothing less.

So, there are two important points that need to be made. One is that sikhi saroop is mandatory. The other is that these kids have every right to wear the t-shirt, they deserve our caring support and guidance.

Well said and very humble reply !