Questions From A Young Christian

[Heera Singh]

If you can live a pure life, with always love for you fellow human being, and without one single sin, than you can be saved. That's why I believe babies who were born dead are saved, because they haven't sinned yet, so they don't deserve any punishment.

But, christianity believes that man is BORN with sin; so doesn't your opinion go against that belief? Christianity doesn't believe in re-incarnation so doesn't believe in past karma -- so a baby who is dead at birth would not (by beliefe of Christianity) be liberated/saved. -- even before it is actually 'born' there is life in that being; so it would (at one point) have been 'alive' even if it was still inside the mothers womb.

Yes, if you live a perfect life, without one single bad action and even without one bad thought, you will be saved, that's beyond all doubt. But, honestly, is there anyone on Earth who has never done anything wrong ? I don't know for you, but I know anyway for me that I have sinned. And I suppose you're the same. I suppose you've never killed anyone, I haven't either. But, have you never stolen, have you never lied, have you never said anything nasty to someone, or even thought ? I have done each of these things, and I suppose nobody can say he hasn't. The Bible says that all men have sinned, and surely it's true. And God is simply too holy to tolerate only one single sin if His presence, and He is too just to let one single sin, ever so small, unpunished. That's why by human nature all men and womed, me included, are due to Hell as a punishment for their sins. And all the good you can do simply can't help you to please God, because only one single sin is sufficient to be punished.

As Sikhs we also believe that we are of Sin. But we are given this human form so that we can wash away our sins from our past lives (and the current life) and become God-Conscious Souls. We can only wash away our sins by total devotion; seva (selfless service of humanity), simran (mind-focussed meditation), sangat (congregating with like-minded and saintly people), kirat karna (earn a truthful living), vand shakna (sharing your wealth -- i.e. tithing), reading Bani (from our Guru - Sree Guru Granth Sahib Jee), PURE love of the heart etc... However, there are those beings who have over lifetimes washed away all their sins and have become 'God-Conscious' souls (Brahm Gyanee's). There are those enlightened beings who become "Jevan Mukat" (liberated while still alive) -- where they only see God, and they only Live God; and their soul has already merged back with the Lord just like a raindrop merges back with the ocean it came from.

So, mankind is totally incapable to save itself on his own. But that's why God, who loves His creatures and doesn't want them to get lost, did Himself everything that was necessary for our salvation : He came Himself on Earth as a man, Jesus, who was at the same time entirely human and entirely God. Jesus lived, and told people about love for each other, because that is indeed what God desires from us. And Jesus is the only human being who ever lived, who actually never committed a single wrong thing : because He was God become flesh on Earth, He was without sin. But He hadn't comme to instaur a religion on Earth, and to teach his followers forever on : He came in the purpose to die for us, in ouyr place, to take on Himself the punishment of our sins. Jesus died on the cross, and He suffered the punishment that you and me diserve. But He became alive again too, and by His resurrection He has wone the victory over death for ever on. And after this He went back to Heaven, but He will come back on Earth at the end of time, to judge all men's deeds.

Do you have any source that says Jesus is the only one who lived who did not commit any wrong? I could say the same for our Gurus... Again, ur thoughts come from the bible; and the bible is not the Word of God, but the Word of Man... there's a BIG difference!

[00singh]

:vaheguru:

I also have a couple questions for Phillip or anyone who is of Christian faith. My friend was telling me about Christianity, but he arrived to a story about Joshua stopping the Sun and he reversal of the Sun's course by Isaiah. I was just wondering two things, one is that wouldn't people all around the world be in complete awe and amazed at the sight of the sun stopping and moving? If so wouldn't it be widely published in many doctorines? Another question is that my friend said Isaiah reveresed the Sun's course, however, the Sun doesnt have a path around the Earth. The Earth travels around the Sun, so wouldnt Isaiah really be changing the Earth's course not the Sun's? Another thing I had a question about, was how the universe created in 6 days. Why did it take God a day to create the moon, another for the sun, another for the Earth, etc when the moon is a speck compared to the Sun? Also if god is powerful , then why so many days, why not 1? I final question that I have is how a religion can say that all other religions are false and to follow others will result in one to go into hell. This seems to me and to other atheist I know, as an intimidation and using pathos to keep a religion alive. Further clearing of this will be greatly appreciated because I do not wish to see another religion as having an evil persona. I am not trying to point out any flaws as many of my Christian friends thought, I would like to clearify my understanding about Christianity so I can better work with my fellow classmates and co-workers. My friends could not answer my question, so I was hoping Phillip or any other Christian could assist me. I felt bad beacuse I feel as if I may have offended them when I question their beliefs. Thank You. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

Thank you for asking. I'l answer here, I hope it iisn't a problem for the admins (if it is you can delete it and I'll answer by private messages).

When Israel was fighting against his ennemies, Joshua prayed to God, and God stopped the course of the sun so that his people had the time to win the battle. Now, of course we know now that in fact it is the Earth that goes around the Sun, but seen from Earth, the Sun stopped. It isn't a contradiction with science, because you still say today that the Sun goes up in the morning, even if scientifically it isn't so. What really happened is that, on this single day, God (God himself, not Joshua, Joshua only prayed to God) stopped the whole course of the Universe ! All the moves of planets around stars, of moons around planets and everything else, stopped for one day to give God's people the time to beat their ennemies ! It's simply the greatest miracle of the whole Bible (or the greatest "scientific" miracle, the miracles of lives wholly changed by Jesus are far greater). And for Isaiah who made the Sun go backwards, in fact he made the shadow move backwards, which could be explained by special light conditions (that doesn't mean it isn't a miracle, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Sun went back).

Why didn't any other people notice what happened. That's an interesting question, and in fact I never thought about it. Maybe (I say maybe, I'm not sure about this) the scientific knowledges at this time weren't enough advanced to notice what happened. When you look out of your window you don't see the Sun moving, so you wouldn't necessarily realize if it stops for a time.

And another thing : the most modern sciences have discovered that in the astronomic moves, it is as if somewhere a few hours are missing. Just as if the whole Universe stopped moving for a few hours of time. And this was most certainly the day when Joshua prayed. This was found out by the Nasa. You can read more about it on this page : http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologeti...ualongday.shtml. (The site says the 23 hours 40 minutes accounted for become a day, like the Bible says, if you count what Isaiah did. I think the Bible speaks approximately, and 23 hours 40 are approximately a day).

For your other question, I'll answer it in a second post as someone else asked the same.

Using this arguement you say that the Earth stopped rotating. The Earth spins at approx. 1,000 miles per hour, therefore, if one stops this rotation, all life on earth would vanish, atleast most would. Inertia would keep all the bodies moving in one direction, eastward to be exact, so that means all the buildings would collapse, water from the ocean would cover land, drowning millions, and many bodies would be toppled and launched eastward. This would result in utter destruction of life all over the world. Since this clearly did not happen, otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this, then it could not have happened. I am not trying to be rude, but just trying to get a logical understanding. Also with regards to the Earth slowing down according to NASA, the Earth could have always spun at 23 hours 40 mins. If you do not believe so, and say that it progressed, then it is possible through attraction. Earth is attracted to the Sun, which is increasing in mass, so the attraction would increase with the Sun, thus changing our course a little and altering day night differences. Earth is also affected by all other bodies in the Universe, far more than our telescopes can see, and alterations in these large stars will also affect us, but only slightly. A huge buildup of these small alterations will cause a noticeable difference in day time differences, noticeable by using advances in science that is. Also Earth is constantly being bombarded by debris, and this will definitely cause alterations over a period of time. There is no doubt there Earth doesnt spin at 23 hours and 40 mins, thats why there is leap years. Just a logical view to better understand, but I am sorry, Isaiah's story does not seem rational and believeable. But if you can explain why there was no destruction and how these outside forces do not affect Earth then please do so because I would like to understand more about my fellow brother and his beliefs. The laws of Physics abide the Lord, by his hukam they were placed and all of nature follows his laws. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I very highly encourage many people to take a quick glimpse at www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz/Sikh_Religion.pdf the amount of Science in SGGS is absolutely amazing. The Spiritual Aspect far exceeds anything in the world. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

[00singh]

This is exactly what missionaries use to go and convert people (and i'm not saying ur a missionary or anything). But they go around and tell people "as long as u believe in Jesus, u'll be saved"... umm.. okay, so I can be an alcoholic, a druggie, a rapist etc.. but as long as i believe in Jesus i'll be saved? sounds too convenient for me... doesn't make any sense.. u have to do some logical thinking on this... when christianity first started it was very controversial and in many places 'illegal'.. once it became legalized they had to find a way to spread it fast... in my opinion, this is what happened.. in that time there was a lot of religious tension in places.. and for them to get the most followers they had to tell stories... one of them being 'Jesus died for your sins', another being "believe in Jesus as your saviour and u will be saved"... most people would probably be like "dang.. i don't have to do anything and i can be liberated? sign me up!!!"... logically speaking, it wouldn't come down to that...

I agree, most religions only survive on intimidation and such. Such as Islam, Christianity, etc. But Sikhism, and there must be others, gives freedom for one to choose his or her faith, that is the point of having ones own faith. Saying that one will go to hell because one does not awknowledge Jesus Christ is absurd, this is just using pathos. This intimidation is cold hearted and instead of making the faith stronger, it makes it weaker because it hurts its ethos, it cannot be held credible. I respect your faith, but I do not respect you saying everyone else will suffer the firey depths of hell, all based on absurdity.

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“The world is going up in flames, O Lord— shower it with Your Mercy, Save it, and deliver it from sin through whichever door (religion) humanity approaches” (SGGS 853).

“I aspire for neither worldly pleasures nor do I crave for salvation. I crave for the love of the Lord’s feet” (SGGS 534).

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :vaheguru:

[00singh]

I would like to understand how it took God 1day to create the sun and 1day to create the moon where as the moon is basically a lump of rock and the sun is so much more complex, although it is said that the moon was actually another planet that broke up and part of it got caught in the earths gravitational field, but lets not go there.

Actually it is said that the moon was part of Earth. Where the current Pacific Ocean is to be exact, and a meteor skimmed the earth sending the huge chunk of the "Pacific Area" into space. They say this because the moon rocks are identical to the ones found at the bottom of the Pacific. Can anyone find the Shabad that stated the Earth and Moon came from the same body? I remember reading this, or something similar, in one of the shabads but having a hard time trying to find it! WJKK WJKF :vaheguru:

[Guest Chris_Latta]

Hmm, this is my first taste of your religion. It is very interesting.

[TejiKaur]

Sorry, but I really cannot agree. I agree wholeheartedly all faiths diserve respect, and all faiths have things you can learn from. And that's the reason I'm here

But I totally disagree that all are equally true, and that they all point essentially to the same place. All religions, philosophies, faiths, spiritualities etc, speak of love, peace and brotherhood between all mankind. And all have excellent moral values. But no, all don't lead to God.

Can you please explain this? I do not see how all faiths are not true. You are saying as if I live a pure life filled with love for my fellow human being, no matter what his or her appearance or beliefs, and with love for the one universal God and attempt my best to aid men and women and live a humble life, I will not achieve salvation? If this is not what you are saying then please clarify, for I do not understand how one can boldy say that one religion is correct except their own, even if they live a saint life. I respect your view but do not see how it is possible, maybe you can help clarify. Thank you. WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

If you can live a pure life, with always love for you fellow human being, and without one single sin, than you can be saved. That's why I believe babies who were born dead are saved, because they haven't sinned yet, so they don't deserve any punishment.

Yes, if you live a perfect life, without one single bad action and even without one bad thought, you will be saved, that's beyond all doubt. But, honestly, is there anyone on Earth who has never done anything wrong ? I don't know for you, but I know anyway for me that I have sinned. And I suppose you're the same. I suppose you've never killed anyone, I haven't either. But, have you never stolen, have you never lied, have you never said anything nasty to someone, or even thought ? I have done each of these things, and I suppose nobody can say he hasn't. The Bible says that all men have sinned, and surely it's true. And God is simply too holy to tolerate only one single sin if His presence, and He is too just to let one single sin, ever so small, unpunished. That's why by human nature all men and womed, me included, are due to Hell as a punishment for their sins. And all the good you can do simply can't help you to please God, because only one single sin is sufficient to be punished.

So, mankind is totally incapable to save itself on his own. But that's why God, who loves His creatures and doesn't want them to get lost, did Himself everything that was necessary for our salvation : He came Himself on Earth as a man, Jesus, who was at the same time entirely human and entirely God. Jesus lived, and told people about love for each other, because that is indeed what God desires from us. And Jesus is the only human being who ever lived, who actually never committed a single wrong thing : because He was God become flesh on Earth, He was without sin. But He hadn't comme to instaur a religion on Earth, and to teach his followers forever on : He came in the purpose to die for us, in ouyr place, to take on Himself the punishment of our sins. Jesus died on the cross, and He suffered the punishment that you and me diserve. But He became alive again too, and by His resurrection He has wone the victory over death for ever on. And after this He went back to Heaven, but He will come back on Earth at the end of time, to judge all men's deeds.

So today, if someone realizes he is a sinner, and he is completely lost, far away from God, and that all his efforts to live love towards others are completely vain, and who believes that Jesus has died on the cross for him personally, and accepts Him as his personal Saviour, this person is saved, and all his sins are forgiven, washed away. There's nothing at all to do to be savec : only to accept that you cant do ANYTHING, but that Jesus has already dole EVERYTHING for you. Everyone who believes this is immediately saved, and can be perfectly sure that all his sins are forgived, because Jesus already bore the punishment. All this out of pure love for you and me.

After I have accepted Jesus as my saviour, when I was 11 years old, of course I do my best to love other people, because I want to please God and to love others. But not because I believe it changes anything at all about my salvation : I am already perfectly sure that I am saved.

But there's also the other side of the message : that everyone who refuses to believe in Jesus remains under the wrath of God, and under His judgement. Even if he is ever so nice and loving.

why cant God save us himself

God is all powerful

how come if parents can forgive our sins and take us back y cant God

Gods the one that gave parents their love

how can one who is in love with the lord ever be far from him

see its more than just about salvation

salvation is the beggining of a relationship with our lord

guru arjun dev ji taught us

raj na chao mukat na chao man preet charan kamalare

( i dont want heaven nor liberation my mind is in love with your lostus feet)

the greatest reward is not matirial pleasures but it is Gods love

i read this online somewhere

if u can imagine a little boy lost in a mall

at first he would go to the candy shop and eat all the candies

than he would go to the toy store and play with all the toys

but at the end of the day he would feel homesick and he would miss his mom and he wud run past all the candy and toys into his moms arms

thats how it is with us and God

matirial pleasures of heaven and paradise cant make us happy

riches and wealth dont bring eternal hapiness in this life y wud they help us in the next

true hapiness comes in Gods love

all else leads to ennui

those who love God will find him

all saints have the same message

jesus was filled with Gods light as was mohammad as was buddha and all religous saints

god lives inside us as well as outside

the true prophet is loving rememberence of Gods name for this is the phrophet who delivers us to God and gives us peace and comfort hear and hearafter

[00singh]

Could not have said it any better Teji, WJKK WJKF. :vaheguru:

[Matheen]

Philip777:

Do you speak/read classical Greek, which you need to to understand the New Testament in its original language (itself written many centuries after Jesus)? Have you read the original text?

You speak of 'being saved', there are many examples of ordinary people in Sikhi who have become 1 with God while alive, let alone after dying! God is closer to us than our own hands and feet, and we don't need a middleman to meet 'Him'.

I could go on, but don't want this to turn into a Christianity vs. Sikhi debate, unless you want it.

You are entitled to your views, but please don't come here pretending to be interested in learning about our faith and then start preaching to us. We may be tolerant, but we aren't idiots.

[BABBAR KHALISTANI]

jesus was filled with Gods light as was mohammad as was buddha and all religous saints

Jesus and Buddha were fine but it's hard to accept in Mohammad's case.......i doubt he was truly a little bit god-conscious let alone being filled with God's light. Just my stand...no intentions of stirring up a debate here.

[Heera Singh]

Oh Philip philip.. where art thou?