New So Called Gur Matta Re Dasam Granth Ji

[AK-47]

who started this whole topic? people saying dasam granth shouldnt be parkash start the topic, and all we did was respond (see thread by takshilak). the whole panth is in flames and all you and your frigging sgpc chums seem to want to do,is create more splits and divides.

well done.

nobody has said that dasam granth must be parkash. singhs are just saying that if it is, it is not desrespectful to guru granth sahib ji, who will always be the guru no matter what.

v, say what you like, i dont like playing games, so ill just re-repeat what i said. if the politicians think something is wrong, then they should do something about it. your talking loads on here, but who will put their head on the line and go stop the parkash from happening? nobody, as i said its just to split the panth and the singhs even further.

theres nothing wrong with disagreeing with people. but i dont like snakes.

bottom line is, personally i have full 100% faith that there is nothing wrong in having parkash of dasam granth sahib ji next to guru granth sahib ji. if im wrong then vaheguru will punish me as he sees fit. i guess when i am being punished for this particular mistake, i'll be in the sangat of great mahapursh and gursikhs who did and do the same mistake. im sure they could explain why they do this galti a billion times better then i could.

On a final note, I will say that the reason for us even speaking out is due to the pain of witnessing us moving further and further from sikhi. Perhaps the only time any gurbani or katha done of guru gobind singhs jis bani is done when dasam granth ji is there. The only people who seem to do the parchar are the ones that have dasam granth ji there. if this ban goes ahead and singhs are forced to stop the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji, then most of the parchar will also likely stop.

Maharajh kirpa karn. At the moment we need his help more then ever.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

And just to add to that, most the singhs that gave kurbania if not all, beleived in dasm bani, recited dasm bani and gave there head for repect of guru granth sahib jee, now these sgpc chums, pscho scholars, missionary prats, badals chamchey are trying to take us away from maharaj jees bani, wasnt it the same sgpc that created contorversy wrt guru granth sahib jees mangal charans? and then the Sant Smaj (***SANT***) held protests and meetings and stopped this beadbi, meetings took place at rara sahib and the biggest at bindra, then seva was given by sant gurbachan singh jee to sant kartaar singh jee of the mangal charans, wasnt it the same psycho scholars that questioned, bhagat bani? raagmala? dasm granth, the panj kandieh, they are all part of the same crew of LOST THE PLOT JOE BLOGGS and now the same have there influence and control over takht sahib jathedars. hence the state of the panth, i remember when sant jee stated that the jathedars of the takhts have openly told lies, but they cudnt say they were wrong, but wud say it to sant jee that we are wrong, but on stage cudnt.

[ghorandhar]

who started this whole topic? people saying dasam granth shouldnt be parkash start the topic, and all we did was respond (see thread by takshilak). the whole panth is in flames and all you and your frigging sgpc chums seem to want to do,is create more splits and divides.

well done.

nobody has said that dasam granth must be parkash. singhs are just saying that if it is, it is not desrespectful to guru granth sahib ji, who will always be the guru no matter what.

v, say what you like, i dont like playing games, so ill just re-repeat what i said. if the politicians think something is wrong, then they should do something about it. your talking loads on here, but who will put their head on the line and go stop the parkash from happening? nobody, as i said its just to split the panth and the singhs even further.

theres nothing wrong with disagreeing with people. but i dont like snakes.

bottom line is, personally i have full 100% faith that there is nothing wrong in having parkash of dasam granth sahib ji next to guru granth sahib ji. if im wrong then vaheguru will punish me as he sees fit. i guess when i am being punished for this particular mistake, i'll be in the sangat of great mahapursh and gursikhs who did and do the same mistake. im sure they could explain why they do this galti a billion times better then i could.

On a final note, I will say that the reason for us even speaking out is due to the pain of witnessing us moving further and further from sikhi. Perhaps the only time any gurbani or katha done of guru gobind singhs jis bani is done when dasam granth ji is there. The only people who seem to do the parchar are the ones that have dasam granth ji there. if this ban goes ahead and singhs are forced to stop the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji, then most of the parchar will also likely stop.

Maharajh kirpa karn. At the moment we need his help more then ever.

Bhai Sahib jee I said you started this thread (therefore starting a discussion) and then when someone disagrees you are telling people to shut up. That is what I found very strange.

Veer jee Like ive said before, this view of the dasam granth being parkash has not just jumpted out of no where, Jathedhar sahib of Akal takhat in 1934 has already made a decision on this matter, I feel this is a crucial piece of evidence which you seem to have not absorbed when claiming other people have started the topic. The Akal Takhat concluded the topic, we are merely disussing its reasoning.

The problem is not that this issue is going to split the panth, but the fact that you said it will 'split it futher'. The fact that there is disagreements on nearly every issue in Sikhi only makes us conclude that the role of the Akal Takhat has become undermined and its decisions have been made a mockery. Those people who have split the panth further (which you acknowledge) will always claim to be legitimate, however there are people out there who believe that if we follow the Akal takhat we would have not been split in the first place and therefore this issue would not be splitting us futher.

Veer jee we all do this ardass: kir aupdysu iJVky bhu BwqI bhuiV ipqw gil lwvY ] ipCly Aaugux bKis ley pRBu AwgY mwrig pwvY ]2]

Veer K_Z jee im sure you would find alot of kurbania from 1920s to 1970s by those who you call the SGPC and Akali Dal etc. The point here is not whether you believe in dasam granth or not, its regarding parkash. Regarding parchar only being done if dasam granth is parkash is also backed up with no evidence, you will regualry hear people doing khata and kirtan from the dasam granth and all the time you will hear kirtan from darbar sahib from the dasam granth. Its also ironic that both Veer V jee and myself will do kirtan from the dasam Granth in Raag and according to gurmat sangeet. The issue of the content is therefore not the issue and neither in my opinion would not having parkash of the dasam granth reduce or inhibit parchar.

Veer K_Z the role of defending the Bhagat bani and Dasam granth etc was not reserved to Sant Gurbachan Singh jee and Sant Kartar Singh jee, you should read Prof Sahib Singh jees responses to these people, esp his baghat bani sateek which is devoted to answering those who were against the bhagat bani. :D

[Inder Singh]

Veer jee Like ive said before, this view of the dasam granth being parkash has not just jumpted out of no where, Jathedhar sahib of Akal takhat in 1934 has already made a decision on this matter, I feel this is a crucial piece of evidence which you seem to have not absorbed when claiming other people have started the topic. The Akal Takhat concluded the topic, we are merely disussing its reasoning.

See the post i cited.There was Dasam Granth in akal takhat till 1944.An akhand path ws conducted of Dasam Granth in 1944.Please stick to facts.

[khalsaland]

Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is a "non-issue". It has been done in Sikh History out of respect for Guru Gobind Singh Sahib banee. Playing the 'conspiracy theory card' is not only foolish but also has no historic background.

No one is forcing anyone to do parkash of Sri Dasam Granth. Moreover none of the regular gurdwaras has the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth. So why to ignite this non-issue? Those like Ragi Darshan who suddenly woke up realising the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth should first explain their main intent behind igniting this controversy.

Those who are opposing the parkash must think if it is not the same melign intent that is often reflected when opposing the banees of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib....those who oppose the parkash are the same bunch of people who oppose the Dasam banee in general. This also reiterates the fact that the 'parkash' is a non-issue!

A sevaadar at Hazur Sahib has much more respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji than people like Ragi Darshan, whose main agenda is to attack the Dasam Banee by all means, and who is cashing it with the notion of restoring respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

[Inder Singh]

Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is a "non-issue". It has been done in Sikh History out of respect for Guru Gobind Singh Sahib banee. Playing the 'conspiracy theory card' is not only foolish but also has no historic background.

No one is forcing anyone to do parkash of Sri Dasam Granth. Moreover none of the regular gurdwaras has the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth. So why to ignite this non-issue? Those like Ragi Darshan who suddenly woke up realising the parkash of Sri Dasam Granth should first explain their main intent behind igniting this controversy.

Those who are opposing the parkash must think if it is not the same melign intent that is often reflected when opposing the banees of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib....those who oppose the parkash are the same bunch of people who oppose the Dasam banee in general. This also reiterates the fact that the 'parkash' is a non-issue!

A sevaadar at Hazur Sahib has much more respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji than people like Ragi Darshan, whose main agenda is to attack the Dasam Banee by all means, and who is cashing it with the notion of restoring respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

I agree with above.One of the persons Gurtej singh Ex IAS is the main ocnspirator.See his double standards from the below post

http://www.5abi.com/tuhade_patra/18_default_030903.htm

AmrjIq isMG Kosw

04/09/03

gurqyj isMG ikhVw???

‘dsm gRMQ dw CoCw sRI gurU goibMd isMG jI dI Swn dwgI krn dw Xqn’ jdoN ieh lyK sqMbr,2000 ivc piVHAw qW mn ivc ivcwr AwieAw ik ieh pqw nhIN ikhVw nvW gurqyj isMG pYdw hoieAw hY?, ikauNik sR.gurqyj isMG AweI.ey.AYs.,nYSnl pRoPYsr AwP is`iKzm,jo ik isrdwr kpUr isMG jI dy bVy nzdIk rhy hn, qy ijMnHW dI iek pusqk ‘c`kRivhU” (ieMgilS) BI pVHI hoeI hY, Aqy bVy mwx nwl auh Awpxy Awp nUM isrdwr kpUr isMG jI qoN bwAd aunHW dIAw lIhW qy c`lx vwly hox krky mwx mihsUs krdy hn, ieh auh nhIN ho skdy[ kwrn ieh hY, ik isrdwr kpUr isMG jI swrI aumr ‘sRI dsm gRMQ swihb’ dy h`k ivc ilKdy rhy hn, Aqy aunHW ny SRo.gu.pR.k. v`loN pRkwSq hox vwlyy ‘gurmq pRkwS’ ivc lyK ‘ik`sw rUp kOr dw’ ilKky pRo.rwmpRkwS isMG AYm.ey.AYl-AYl. bI. Aqy aus vrgy keI hor piVHAW iliKAW dy Brm BulyKy dUr kIqy hn[aunHW dI AwpxI pusqk ‘Sikhism An Oecumenical Religion’ pM:198-99 aupr jdoN auh AMimRq sMcwr dI ivDI d`sdy hn qW swP iliKAw hY- pMjW ipAwirAW v`loN pMj bwxIAW jpu, jwp, svYXy, bynqI cOpeI Aqy AwnMd swihb (pihlIAW pMj qy AwKrI iek pauVI) pVHIAW jWdIAW hn[aunHW nUM ies g`l dw BlI BWq pqw sI ik jwp, svYXy, bynqI cOpeI Awid ieh bwxIAW gurU gRMQ swihb ivc nhIN, sgoN dsm gRMQ ivcoN leIAW geIAW hn, Aqy ieh gurU goibMd isMG jI dI rcnw hY[dsmgRMQ ivcoN ‘vwr sRI BgOqI jI kI’ Ardws dw AMgryzI ivc qrzumw pM:213 aupr kIqw hoieAw imldw hY[iesdy nwl hI inqnym dIAW bwxIAW ivc BI jpu qoN bwAd jwp, ‘sRwvg suD’ vwly ds svYXY Aqy rihrws ivc bynqI cOpeI ‘hmrI krhu hwiQ dY r`Cw’, svYXw ‘pwie ghy jb qy qumry…’Aqy dohrw ‘sgl duAwr ko Cwif kY…’ieh BI dsm gRMQ ivcoN leIAW dsmyS bwxIAW hn[iesy pusqk dy pM:150 aupr ‘Aru isKhoN Apuny hI mn ko’ cMfI cirqR ivcoN, pM:161 aupr ‘dyhurw msIq soeI’ Akwl ausqq ivcoN, pM:189 aupr ‘jb Awv kI AauD indwn bny’ cMfI cirqR ivcoN Aqy pM: 193 aupr ‘cUM kwr Az hmh hIlqy’ zPrnwmw ivcoN hvwly id`qy dyKy jw skdy hn[ isrdwr kpUr isMG ny AwpxI pusqk ‘bhu ivsqwr’ ivc dsm gRMQ ivcly lyK Pqh nwmw bwry pM:63 qoN 74 q`k bVy ivsqwr nwl iliKAw hY[aunHW dI iek hor pusqk ‘spq isRMg’ dI BUimkw ies qrHW SurU huuMdI hY-“gurU goibMd isMG ny AwpxI iek A-smwpq jIvn kQw ilKI hY, bicqR nwtk[aus ivc Awpxy ipCly jIvn bwry ikhw hY:- Ab mY AwpxI kQw bKwno…qihM hm AiDk qp`isAw swDI]” ‘puMdRIk’ nwm dI pusqk isrdwr swihb jI dI iek bhuq hI mh`qvpUrx dyx hY[ausdy pM:140 aupr iliKAw hY-ieho rudR-dyv hV`pw-s`iBAqw dy DrmWSW qoN pRBwvq hoky ipCoN mhW-dyv qy sdw-iSv bx igAw hY[swFy iqMn hzwr vrHy ipCoN gurU goibMd isMG jI ny pihlI vwr ieh nukqw smiJAw qy ikMqU kIqw:_ mhWdyv ko kihq sdw isv]inrMkwr kw cInq nih iBv](cOpeI) hux iek hor pusqk ‘isMG nwd’ pVHn nUM imlI qW jwx pCwx vwly pM:11 qy iesdy ilKwrI sR.gurqyj isMG d`sdy hn ik “iek smyN BweI swihb isrdwr kpUr isMG ny Kud aunHW izMmyN ieh syvw lweI sI, ik kdI is`K isDWq dw p`lw nhIN C`fxw]” sR.gurqyj isMG dy ‘isMG nwd’ dy pM:93 aupr: “rihq mirXwdw sMbMDI mYN prcy ivc ieh iliKAw hY, ik SRomxI kmytI v`loN CwpI rihq hI Asl pMQk rihq hY[ies ivc vwDw Gwtw locx vwly aus duSmx dy h`QW ivc Kyf rhy hn, jo ieh AwK irhw hY, ik guris`KI dI koeI qihSudw rihq nhIN Aqy AmUmn is`K iesnUM bdldy Awey hn]” ieQy gurqyj isMG is`K rihq mirXwdw, sRI Akwl qKq swihb Aqy ‘gurU-pMQ’ nUM pUrI qrHW smripq hY, ijvyN ik hr guris`K nUM hoxw cwhIdw hY[iPr pM:150 aupr ilKdy hn –“ij`Qy dUsry DrmW ivc mukqI pRwpqI dy hor Anyk swDn hn, auQy Kwlsy leI prm purK ivc AByd hox dw ie`ko ie`k rwh ieho hY ik auh DrmI purS dy Awqimk ivkws Aqy duinAwvI KuSI ivc ivGn pwaux vwlIAW AinAWkwrI SkqIAW nwl inrMqr Xu`D krdw rhy[ gurU goibMd isMG jI dy Aim`t vwk- ‘DMn jIE iqh ko jg mY muK qy hir ic`q mY juD ibcwry] ’dy ieho Bwv hn”[ieh lweInW dsm gRMQ AMdr gurU goibMd isMG ricq ‘ikRSnwvqwr’ pM:570 aupr AMikq hn[ ‘isMG nwd’ dy pM:223 aupr sR. gurqyj isMG ilKdy hn –“pihlW gurU gRMQ swihb ivc KVg lPz keI vwrI vriqAw igAw hY[ie`Qy Aqy Dwrimk lihrW dy ieiqhws ivc ikRpwn dw smwn AwrQk ieh Sbd ‘Drm dy s`cy su`cy igAwn’ jW ‘Dwrimk PlsPy dy AMqRIv Bwv’ leI hI vriqAw igAw hY[dsvyN pwqSwh dy ‘jY qygM’ vwly Sbd ivc vI qyg dw ieho ArQ hY”[ieh Sbd ‘Kg KMf ibhMfM Kl dl KMfM qoN surU hoky mm pRiqpwrx jY qygM’ qy Awky smwpqI huuMdI hY, Aqy ieh BI dsmgRMQ ivc bicqR nwtk dy SurU dw iqRBMgI CMd pM:39 aupr drz hY[ iPr sR.gurqyj isMG dy ‘isMG nwd’ dy pM:224 aupr drz hY ik–“eysy Bwvnw ADIn dsvyN pwqSwh PurmwayNdy hn, ik KVg dw kwT (h`Q jW mu`Tw) h`Q ivcoN C`fx vwly (pRwDInW) nUM KVg dI Dwr DOx qy sihxI pYNdI hY”[ieh dsm gRMQ dy cirqRopwKXwn vwly cirqR nM:297,31-1 pM: 1247 aupr drz, Aqy ies qrHW hY-KVg hwQ ijin qjhu KVgDwrw sho] sR.gurqyj isMG dI pusqk ‘c`kRivhU’ dy pM:143 aupr isrdwr kpUr isMG dI h`Q ilKq dI Poto kwpI, jo ik aunHW nUM ‘nYSnl pRoPYsr AwP isiKiesm’ dI srvu`c pdvI imlx smyN dI spIc (iviKXwn) hY, ausnUM auh vwihgurU jI kI Pqih] qoN SurU krky ‘myru kro iqRx qy muih jwih grIb invwj n dUsr qo so]’ (bicqR nwtk) Aqy pM:147 aupr ‘DIrj Dwm bnwie iehY qn buiD su dIpk ijau auijAwry]’(ikRSnwvqwr dw AwKrI sYXw) vwlIAW lweInW, jo ik dsm gRMQ ivcoN hn,AwpxI ilKq dI pRoVqw leI vrqdy hn,ijvyN ik hr pMQk guris`K dw Drm hY[ ‘dsm gRMQ dw CoCw…’vwly lyK ivc ies gurqyj isMG ny koeI nvIN qW nhIN, pr bxw suAwr ky auhI lkIr ip`tI hY, ik 18vIN sdI dy A`D q`k ies gRMQ dI hoNd nhIN sI, dUjw iesnUM pRmwixq is`K Drm gRMQ vjoN svIkwr nhIN kIqw jw skdw, qIjw iesnUM gurU goibMd isMG jI ny gurU gRMQ swihb ilKdy smyN nwl Swml ikauN nhIN kIqw, Aqy cOQw auhI ik ies ivc nwnk nwm Cwp dI vrqoN ikauN nhIN kIqI[ Bwg isMG AMbwlw, ipRM.hirBjn isMG cMfIgVH, ipRM.hirBjn isMG is`K imSnrI kwlj luiDAwxw,ig.surjIq isMG imSnrI id`lI, Aqy ku`J hor pMQ doKIAW ivcoN lMGdI hoeI hux ieh bImwrI gurbKS isMG kwlwAPgwnw Aqy ies gurqyj isMG qy Aw phuMcI hY[ ieMnHW Aqy ies qrHW dIAW hor Fu`crW dy juvwb pMQk ivdvwnW v`loN bhuq vyrI id`qy jw cu`ky hn[Aksr imlIAW hoeIAW syvwvW dw mu`l vI qW is`KI nUM FwA lwky hI qwirAw jw skdw hY[‘dsm gRMQ dw CoCw…’ 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dw ipAwsw, byikrk, koJw qy Awm hI v`fIAW lVweIAW lVn qy l`KW kroVW lokW nUM kql krn vwlw hY[ieh dyh Dwrn krdw hY, Aqy AwpxI hr dyh ivc iehnUM KUn dI holI KyfidAW ivKwieAw igAw hY[ ku`J inhMg sMprdwvW hiQAwrW dI AwrwDnw krdIAw hn,pr ies AwrwDn dw gurU gRMQ swihb dy drSn nwl koeI sMbMD nhIN hY[gurU gMRQ swihb Anuswr hiQAwr Aijhy aucy sdwcwr vwly XoDy hI cu`k skdy hn, ijhVy Akwl purK,scweI Aqy mnu`KI kilAwx pRqI pUrI qrW smripq hox[hiQAwr Awpxy Awp ivc koeI pIr nhIN hn, qy nW hI pUjw dI vsq hn[ijhVI vI cIz sdwcwr qoN s`KxI hY,haumY ivc rMgI hoeI hY jW Akwl purK dy hukm qoN bwhr hY,auh gurU dy bcn Anuswr siqkwrXog nhIN hY[hiQAwr qW nwdr Swh, AbdwlIAW, cMgyz KwnW Aqy ihtlrW dy swDn vI huMdy hn, so ieh g`l insicq hI hY, ik dsm gRMQ, gurU swihb dIAW isiKAWvW qoN kohW dUr hY[gurU gRMQ swihb dy hr pMny ivcoN ipAwr dI vrKw huuMdI hY,Aqy dsm gRMQ dy ies ivcwr ADIn ih`sy ivcoN ihMsw fu`lH fu`lH pYNdI hY[ s`cI g`l qW ieh hY ik dsm gRMQ dy bhuqy ih`sy dw ie`ko ie`k mMqv isv Aqy ausdI sMgxI cMfI nUM mhWkwl dy sB qoN v`D SkqISwlI AvqwrW vjoN sQwipq krnw hY[ Aihswn PrwmoSI Aqy mUrKqw dI isKr qoN ielwvw ieh mnu`K zwqI dy prm AwdRS dsvyN gurU dI ArS CUMhdI Swn nUM dwgI krn dw Gor kmIxw Xqn vI hY[cirqRopwKXwn vrgIAW ASlIl ilKqW nUM pYgMbrW dy auqrwiDkwrI dy nW nwl joVnIAW cMd qy Qu`kx dy brwbr hY”[ hux dyK lvo ijhVIAW g`lW ieh ilKwrI A`j ilK irhw hY, aus bwry nW qW gurU sihbwn dy smyN vwly is`KW nUM qy nW hI ‘is`K rihq mirXwdw’ bnwaux vwlI swrI kmytI nUM pqw sI, ijsnUM bnwaux leI audoN qyrW swl qoN aupr smW l`igAw[isrdwr kpUr isMG,d`Kx v`loN is`K sjy nMd isMG, drSn isMG PyrUmwn Aqy aus qoN pihlW ho cu`ky jW hux vI iksy vI guris`K, ivdvwn, jW mhWpurS jo ik pUrn is`KI rihq ivc rih ky jIvn bqIq kr gey/rhy hn, auh dsm gRMQ, in`qnym, AMimRq sMcwr, Ardws, ds gurU sihbwn eyk joq, sRI gurU gRMQ swihb, Dur kI bwxI, SSqrDwrI hoxw, srb`q dw Blw mMgxw, Bwxy ivc jIvn ijauxw Awid sB g`lW qoN Anjwx sn/hn[auh sB AkloN KwlI sn/hn[gurU dy lV l`g ky BI aunHW nUM koeI soJI nhIN sI/hY[so ieh bVy Aihm nukqy hn, ijs krky isrdwr kpUr isMG jI Aqy sR.gurqyj isMG ‘isMG nwd’ qy ‘c`kRivhU’ vwly Aqy ies ‘dsm gRMQ dw CoCw…’ vwly gurqyj isMG dw vKryvW bVw hYrwnIjnk, SMky BrpUr, kmInqw dI h`d qoN pwr huMdw hoieAw ikvyN gu`Jw rih skdw hY? hux BI ieh GuMfI auvyN hI AVI peI hoeI hY, ik iek gurqyj isMG, isrdwr kpUr isMG dw mu`deI hY[iek sR.gurqyj isMG ‘c`kRivhU’ qy ‘isMG nwd’ dw ilKwrI hY[iek gurqyj isMG ‘dsm-gRMQ dw CoCw’lyK ilK irhw hY[ieh sB Al`g Al`g hn,jW ie`ko dy keI mKOty hn[iek hoxw qW AsMBv l`gdw hY[ienHW dy Al`g Al`g hox ivc hI pMQ dI BlweI hY[gurU BlI kry!AsIN qW isrdwr kpUr isMG vwly gurqyj isMG dy DVy dy hwmI hW,jo ik gurU-pMQk DVw hY[ r`b nW kry jy ieh ieko hY,- qW iesdw isrdwr kpUr isMG jI dy inktvrqI hoxw iDRg hY[isrdwr kpUr isMG dy kihx krky iesny is`KI dw p`lw qW nhIN C`ifAw, pr isDWq sB C`f id`qy hn[Awpxy gurU jW ausqwd qy XkIn nW krn jW S`k krn vwly nUM ‘AikRqGx’ ikhw jWdw hY, qy iesdw shI srUp BweI gurdws jI dI iek vwr ‘md ivic irDw pwieky’ ivc dyiKAw jw skdw hY[iPr ijhVI g`l Ajy k`l AwpxI pusqk ivc khI hY, A`j ausdw hI KMfn kr irhw hY[hux iesdI AkldwnI ivc iksy ny ku`J izAwdw hI mwiek JurlU Pyr id`qw l`gdw hY[swnUM qW pqw nhIN ieh audoN byvkUP sI jW iPr hux[ies g`l dw inrxw iksy dUsry qoN krwaux dI bzwie Kud hI kry qW byhqr hY[ AmrjIq isMG

[Jangal Da]

Unless historical facts are well known or accepted, then it really annoys me when people blurt out the pages of history and do not back it up with sources for evidence.

(From Transactions of the Asiatic Society vol 1 pp293, pub 1788 - can be read at the India Office Library in London): In 1781 Charles Wilkins (an orientalist working for the East India Company) visited the Takht at Patna Sahib. Here he was told about the existance of a second 'book' (he refers to the Dasam Granth) which the priests told him was held in almost the same esteem as the Guru Granth Sahib. He did not witness it being in parkash next to the GGS. The priests undisputedly agreed that this was written by Guru Gobind Singh.

Chhibar's Bansavali Nama Dasam Patshahian Ka tells us that the Dasam Granth would sit seperately from the GGS in Gurudwaras. In 1698 he says that the Khalsa asked Guru Gobind Singh to bind the Dasam Granth with the GGS, but Dasmesh pita replied "This Adi Granth Guru is the root and the other one is my own diversion, always remeber this and let the two remain seperate."

Whatever the arguments, such issues are fools' arguments and should never be a focus of dispute in the Panth. The Gurmatta has been passed and I am pesonally happy to accept it.

[Inder Singh]

Unless historical facts are well known or accepted, then it really annoys me when people blurt out the pages of history and do not back it up with sources for evidence.

(From Transactions of the Asiatic Society vol 1 pp293, pub 1788 - can be read at the India Office Library in London): In 1781 Charles Wilkins (an orientalist working for the East India Company) visited the Takht at Patna Sahib. Here he was told about the existance of a second 'book' (he refers to the Dasam Granth) which the priests told him was held in almost the same esteem as the Guru Granth Sahib. He did not witness it being in parkash next to the GGS. The priests undisputedly agreed that this was written by Guru Gobind Singh.

Chhibar's Bansavali Nama Dasam Patshahian Ka tells us that the Dasam Granth would sit seperately from the GGS in Gurudwaras. In 1698 he says that the Khalsa asked Guru Gobind Singh to bind the Dasam Granth with the GGS, but Dasmesh pita replied "This Adi Granth Guru is the root and the other one is my own diversion, always remeber this and let the two remain seperate."

Whatever the arguments, such issues are fools' arguments and should never be a focus of dispute in the Panth. The Gurmatta has been passed and I am pesonally happy to accept it.

Charles Wilkkins was not told .He wrote what he saw at Patna.He saw Dasam Granth in parkash and he wrote that.

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Even British sources confirm the practice of both Granths at the Takhts including

Patna Sahib. Charles Wilkins upon his visit to the Takht in 1781 states that he

witnessed two Granths present at Patna

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In the same way John Malcolm viisted Punjab in pursuit of Holakr.he saw what he wrote.He testified that when sikhs take Gurmattas both Granths in Parkash.

Whom we are kidiing here?

The issue is not Parkash of DG at present.The issue is disowning of DG by a certain grouip of sikhs who are using bad language for this scritpure.They are not in a position to usnderstand DG.DG talks about sipahi role of khalsa.In other words it talks about functional role of akal purakh when he enters history of mankind to correct wrongs.Without DG there is no khalsa and without khalsa there is no sikhi.

[Jangal Da]

Whom we are kidiing here?

The issue is not Parkash of DG at present.The issue is disowning of DG by a certain grouip of sikhs who are using bad language for this scritpure.They are not in a position to usnderstand DG.DG talks about sipahi role of khalsa.In other words it talks about functional role of akal purakh when he enters history of mankind to correct wrongs.Without DG there is no khalsa and without khalsa there is no sikhi.

Fully agree with Inder Singh's point. Dasam Granth is integral to the Khalsa and Sikhi as a whole.

[Inder Singh]

Whom we are kidiing here?

The issue is not Parkash of DG at present.The issue is disowning of DG by a certain grouip of sikhs who are using bad language for this scritpure.They are not in a position to usnderstand DG.DG talks about sipahi role of khalsa.In other words it talks about functional role of akal purakh when he enters history of mankind to correct wrongs.Without DG there is no khalsa and without khalsa there is no sikhi.

Fully agree with Inder Singh's point. Dasam Granth is integral to the Khalsa and Sikhi as a whole.

Here is what Charles wilkin's saw at Patna sahib in

1781.

http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org.uk/history/...gePatna1781.htm

They told me further, that some years after this book of Noneek Sah had been promulgated, another10 made its appearance, now held in almost as much esteem as the former. The name of the author has escaped my memory; but they favoured me with an extract from the book itself in praise of the Deity. The passage had struck my ear on my first entering the hall when the students were all engaged in reading. From the similarity of the language to the Hindoovee11, and many Sanscrit words, I was able to understand a good deal of it, and I hope, at some future period, to have the honour of laying a translation of it before the Society. They told me I might have copies of both their books, if I would be at the expense of transcribing them. I next enquired why they were called Seeks, and they told me it was a word borrowed from one of the commandments of the founder which signifies "Learn thou"; and it was adopted to distinguish the sect soon after he disappeared. The word, as is well known, has the same import in the Hindoovee.

I asked them what were the ceremonies used in admitting a proselyte. A person having shown a sincere inclination to renounce his former opinions, to any five or more Seeks assembled together, in any place, as well on the highway as in a house of worship, they send to first shop where sweetmeats are sold and procure a small quantity of a particular sort which is very common, and as I recollect, they call Batasa, and having diluted it in pure water, they sprinkle some of it on the body, and into the eyes of the: convert, whilst one of the best instructed repeats to him in any languages with which he is conversant the chief cannons of their faith, exacting from him a solemn promise to abide by them the rest of his life. This is the whole of the ceremony.

FOOTNOTE

9

This view held by the Sikhs as early as 1781, when Wilkins visited Patna, lends further support to those who hold that Gurmukhi characters were invented. or perfected in their present forms, by Guru Nanak himself and not by Guru Anged, the Second Guru.

10

Evidently, the Dasam Granth, also called the Daswin Padshahi da Granth

11

Hindi, Devnagri

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