Sant

[Inder Singh]

Inder singh the panth is waking up in the west. Compare this to Punjab where you will killed for bad mouthing an dera wala sant, by his chele.

You should know gurbani before write the above line.There are five stages on a man's spiritual journey called khands.

Those sants who become greedy remain at second stage only.Real sants raech final stage and they are like Akal purakh themselves.To bad mouth them is a sin.

Now coming to the topic these missionaries do not believe in Naam simran also.They do not beleive in soul,karma and reincarnation.These are baisc concepts of sikhism.The video shows them like ist grade students who do not know Gurbani and Gurmat principles.They are far worse than any sant.

By the way in whaich west you live.Is it the same west where these gurnindaks cannot even speak in Gurudwaras.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

The topic is about two main stream scholar type ppl getting a trashing from baba hari singh, its the same ppl that write books and do dodgy parchaar. Its a brilliant video that everyone should watch as they practically have no answers, its funny at points as even the presenter starts to agree with baba hari singh. The Scholar hasnt even taken amrit yet writes about his ''version'' of gurmat and is well known at debating and stupid beleifs.

[SunSingh]

V, I get your point and agree that the term is often used loosely.

But the topic here is about Baba Hari Singh Randhawe. Has he done any wrong to make you think that he is not a sant? To bring up wrong uses of the term when we are dealing with a real sant causes needless controversy.

[ghorandhar]

Good Post Veer V jee.

Veer Inder Singh jee could you please tell us which missionary school these people studied at? Im sure you cant study at any missionary school if you have not taken amrit.

If there are missionarys doing incorrect veechar then its good to discuss with them, however there are missionarys out there who are doing really good things. The following website has Giani Pinderpal Singh jees khata who studied at the Ropar missionary college http://gurmatveechar.com/katha.php Is that not a taksali website? Just as there may be some missionarys who do wrong parchar, not all taksalis hold hands with the RSS and not all Sants have secret meetings with the RSS, which im sure Sant hari Singh Randhawa was involved in.

Veer Khalistan_Zindabad, I agree with you that paadd ched printing was a wrong thing to do. I have laarivar maharaj bir parkash and think its best if we try and go back to the way the maharaj birs were originally. However, you have to assess the good and the bad. just as one Veer jee said that the Sooraj parkash has mistakes, this does not mean we are going to burn it, just as the SGPC should not be burnt. We should remember that it was Singhs in the SGPC that died to free our gurdwaras from the mahants and Sants were also involved in the Singh Sabha and SGPC like Sant Attar Singh jee, alot of sants did not sit at home or hide in hills like Baba Vadbagh Singh when our gurdwaras was under attack by mahants killing Sikhs. We can pick faults in every organisation, but end of the day they also have good points, it just looks daft to be bias. For example Kala Afghana sent a letter (many times) to the takaal however no replies were given, his supporters say that Kala Afghana ripped the Taksal to pieces, in my eyes this tutu maih maih is serving the panth no good, all this sending letters then making it public that flanna flanna cant give me any answers is just about peoples egos. Its easy to pick faults in others rather oneself. But Kala Afghana supporters dont mention the book Sabh Dust chak mara where kala afghana is attacked and provides no answers. There seems like there is no end to this tamasha. Our affiliations to organisations means that we are willing to ignore good points in organisations and hide our defend the faults in the organisations we follow.

[singh_bling]

if it wasnt for the pooran bramgianis through out our history no one would kno the meaning of sikhi, wer sikhi came from, the roots of sikhi, if u read gurbani carefully you will see what maharaj says about sant mahapuraks, yes there are fakes nowadays that have the sant infront of there name, but to have fake there must be real, its like having fake gold, there must be real gold to have fake gold otherwise fake gold would of never exsisted. you should never slander any sant, we dont kno what avastha they are at. guru maharaj says in bani that there is no difference between me and sants, sants that are at the ultimate stage not the fake ones, but wat can we say there wer nindaks from guru nanak dev jis times and there are nindaks today, they carry out ther daily duty of nindiya, may maharaj do kirpa on all of us

[V]

Singh_bling although most people acknowledge that sants do exist and they are given much respect in Gurbani we also need to appreciate that Gurbani gives us a description of what a Sant is like. Rather detailed one, and I must tell you most sants of the sant samaj do not fall into this catagory. I'm not saying all of them are bad. Butjust like the SGPC basket, sant samaj includes many bad aplpes that although do organize morchas, a lot of them are to get increased support

I'll give you the most obvious example, which I've repeated on the forum again and again. Baba Dhumma got his kursi (jathedari) and acceptence by taksalis because he followed the official line of taksal: baba ji is alive. Ram Singh said from the begining: baba ji is shaheed. Who got kursi? Dhumma. What happens once he gets his kursi? He goes back on his words and says baba ji is shaheed. If this is not double standards (read: pakhand) then I do not know what is.

Veer SunSingh, I'm not here to find other people's mistakes as I'm full of them myself. I'm sure Baba hari Singh is too (perhaps hence why the closed door meetings with RSS) The reason why I posted was due to you veer jeeo again and again posting the same thing: those who do not believe in sants do not believe in gurbani. I have full faith in Gurbani, and Gurbani tells me there are those genuine heeras who dedicate their life to this cause; Bhagat Pooran Singh, Bhai Sahib Bhai Gurdas Ji etc etc but Gurbani also tells me that most people on this planet are subject to making mistakes. They are bhullanhar. I do not have the buddi or right to go and judge others and say: oh pakhandi eh, oh sacha hai. I believe my path to Guru Sahib is straight. There aren't any middlemen. My rishta is to Guru Sahib, end of discussion. Hence why some other persons avastha doesn't concern me.

Again, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying all so-called sants are bad. I'm saying all parcharacs have many guns, however we should acknowledge that in the end of the day, they too have their awguns, and its Guru Sahib we are to be dedicated to. our mission shouldn't be to protect and hold allegence to a certain baba, sant or jathebandi

[singh_bling]

i agree with you that today in sant smaaj arnt all perfect, and i didnt say that we shud just dedicate our lives to just sants, sant are ther to guide us on the path and give us sikiya on what guru maharaj is telling us in bani. we cant get all the knowledge by just reading books, we need guidence of sum1 who has been there and done that and have all that is needed if you kno wat i mean, sum1 who has reached the supreme stage were bani is to take us.

iblwvlu mhlw 5 ]

bilaaval mehalaa 5 ||

Bilaaval, Fifth Mehla:

ibnu swDU jo jIvnw qyqo ibrQwrI ]

bin saadhhoo jo jeevanaa thaetho birathhaaree ||

That life, which has no contact with the Holy, is useless.

imlq sMig siB BRm imty giq BeI hmwrI ]1]

milath sa(n)g sabh bhram mittae gath bhee hamaaree ||1||

Joining their congregation, all doubts are dispelled, and I am emancipated. ||1||

jw idn Byty swD moih auAw idn bilhwrI ]

jaa dhin bhaettae saadhh mohi ouaa dhin balihaaree ||

That day, when I meet with the Holy - I am a sacrifice to that day.

qnu mnu Apno jIArw iPir iPir hau vwrI ]1] rhwau ]

than man apano jeearaa fir fir ho vaaree ||1|| rehaao ||

Again and again, I sacrifice my body, mind and soul to them. ||1||Pause||

eyq CfweI moih qy ieqnI idRVqwrI ]

eaeth shhaddaaee mohi thae eithanee dhrirrathaaree ||

They have helped me renounce this ego, and implant this humility within myself.

sgl ryn iehu mnu BieAw ibnsI ApDwrI ]2]

sagal raen eihu man bhaeiaa binasee apadhhaaree ||2||

This mind has become the dust of all men's feet, and my self-conceit has been dispelled. ||2||

inMd icMd pr dUKnw ey iKn mih jwrI ]

ni(n)dh chi(n)dh par dhookhanaa eae khin mehi jaaree ||

In an instant, I burnt away the ideas of slander and ill-will towards others.

dieAw mieAw Aru inkit pyKu nwhI dUrwrI ]3]

dhaeiaa maeiaa ar nikatt paekh naahee dhooraaree ||3||

I see close at hand, the Lord of mercy and compassion; He is not far away at all. ||3||

qn mn sIql Bey Ab mukqy sMswrI ]

than man seethal bheae ab mukathae sa(n)saaree ||

My body and mind are cooled and soothed, and now, I am liberated from the world.

hIq cIq sB pRwn Dn nwnk drswrI ]4]10]40]

heeth cheeth sabh praan dhhan naanak dharasaaree ||4||10||40||

Love, consciousness, the breath of life, wealth and everything, O Nanak, are in the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||4||10||40||

[Bijla Singh]

What V is saying is that the word "Sant" is being misused by many who are not even close to being real Sants. In Gurbani, "Sant" in singular form is either used for Guru Sahib or Waheguru and in plural form it is used for Gursikhs, Sadh Sangat etc. It is not used to praise any single individual as Gurbani only praises Nirgun Waheguru. No human is praised in Gurbani. Being Sant is an avastha not a title. Every Sikh is Sant and Sipahi so I fail to see the ridiculous need to have a "Sant" title with your name. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has explained it very well in "Sant Padd Nirnay".

Debate in the video and character of Hari Singh are two different topics. I simply focused on what was being discussed or debated and learned something about Gurmat. Leave it at that. Don't mix the topics.

[singh_bling]

lol u aint got a clue

[waaheguroo]

Excellent post Bijla singh.

Then how does one become an sant :gg: like sant maan singh?