Inappropriate Vaja Tunes

[akal sahai]

why do you have knowledge of a tune being a 'bollywood' or 'hindi film' tune in the first place?

Not everyone is born into Sikhi, you can't be born a Sikh.

I'm sure many use to listen to Hindi/Punjabi songs before they got into Sikhi which they remember, when the tune is replayed at the gurdwara sahib, which I feel is an inappropriate place for it, hence the title 'Inappropriate Vaja Tunes', many have been exposed to that type of music so these tunes are kind of like a reminder, which shouldn't be happening in the first place, the tunes have been given to us in the form of raags, if one doesn't have sufficient knowledge of raags then they make up tunes, I think that's fine, but when one starts to COPY tunes from a hindi movie, I think that is inappropriate.

:goodpost: totally agree..........

[Akritghan]

raag is in Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj for a reason...it is Gurbaanee...and is it right that we should ignore this part of Gurbaaneee? cos that is what we are doing?

im guessing that everyone agrees that all of Dhur Ki Baanee is Hukam for everyone to follow...but its ok to cut that bit out????isnt that beabdi in itself?yet we shout and scream at naamdhaaress for changing or ignoring tuks of Gurbaanee.....yet its alright for us to do the same?

we are stupid people and think we know better then our Guroo when we dont make the effort to learn raag...anyone here who doesnt have the opportunity to learn raag...pm me and ill put u in touch with a few people who could teach u-not naamdhaarees dont worry...

and also why do u want to learn the vaaja when Guroo Sahib has blessed us with instruments such as sarangi, dilruba, taus, rabab saranda? we say that we play the vaja cos its easier to learn....i guess that i dont have to learn gurmukhi either cos i can just read the english translation.....same thing isn't it?cos we know more than our Guroo hunna?(thats sarcasm btw)

p.s i am a hypocrite cos i aint had a tanti saaj or santhiya lesson for over a month

[Jaspaul Singh]

We must be very careful when we write stuff on forums...

Yes raags are important but their are MANY countless gursikhs that havnt done raag in kirtan sevaa. To name a few Bhai Saahib Jeevan Singh jee, Sant Isher Singh Jee, and many more. We cant question them why they didnt take the time to singh in raag, maybe they did and just didnt do it in sangat.

we are stupid people and think we know better then our Guroo when we dont make the effort to learn raag

bhenjee be very careful in the way you address it, I know it was meant intentionally but there are others that would

Back to the topic..

I personally think deliberately listening to a hindi song and converting it into a shabad tune is wrong. But a lot do it and some truly get closer to guru saahib, so whatever floats your boat.

This one singh was telling me, who has SOO much love for sikhi. He loves doing kirtan, day and night. He knows raag but sings in akhand kirtan too. He tells me sometimes he would open up a amrit kirtan random page and just do a random shabad and whatever 'tune' comes to his mind.

I dont think this is wrong, as it is coming from the heart, from within.

[chatanga]

Sant Isahr Singh did kirtan in Dharna which is totally difrent from gurbani kirtan.

[curious_man]

in a Katha by Sant Singh Maskeen ji, he mentioned about some raagis singing on filmi tunes. but, he said what to do, "hun koi srota hi nahi rehya" (now there is no listener/admirer of raag in the sangat that comes to gurughar).. so raag is fading away!!

but again.. there are only 7 sur, some raagis get a similar tune to bollywood songs accidentally, but its our effort to listen the shabad instead of remembering the tune and relating to some filmi song!!

[Akritghan]

Sant Isahr Singh did kirtan in Dharna which is totally difrent from gurbani kirtan.

ahhh but sant baba isher singh jee was a brahmgiaanee....bramhgiaanee aap nirankaar....we aint even worthy to be the dust of baba jees servants' servants' feet....sorry if i was rude in my previous posts but raag should be learnt by everyone...alot of youth say raag makes them go to sleep.....and that really hurts...and that also implies that the youth dont listen to the Gurbaanee kirtan itself but the tune....

for example gagan dhumama baajaaoo....thats in raag maroo right?the raag reflects the meaning and strengthens the impact to those singing and listening....so imagine that sabad being sung with a tune from kuch kuch hota hai?wouldnt the impact on the sangat be nearly lost?

[ghorandhar]

There are some people who have issues with non raag because alot of these tunes are what our ustads call filmy tunes. I think there is a bigger issue here, if our gurus told us to do kirtan in raags, why should we turn around and say flanna flanna did flanna flanna? Is our gurus hukam not enough for us?

The same people who would say you have to take amrit and keep your kesh to be a Sikh or reach sach khand also say we can rectify our guru jees hukam and not do kirtan in Raag. So following one hukam is a must, but the hukam on doing kirtan on raag......ohh ta badhoo kam hai. If we bending the rules and start saying you can take amrit if you dont keep your kesh, the panth would not stand for such beliefs, the reason is because of the hukam of our guru maharaj. In my opinion the same applies to doing kirtan in raag, saying that the main thing is that your mind is focused on the shabad in fair enough, however when our guru maharaj hukam is for example: har utam har prabh gavia, kar naad bilawal raag. Are we respecting out Gurus hukam?

If we accept guru maharajs hukam in not eating meat, bhang etc but when it comes to following the hukam on doing kirtan in raags, why do we find such a difficulty?

[Akaali]

for example gagan dhumama baajaaoo....thats in raag maroo right?the raag reflects the meaning and strengthens the impact to those singing and listening....so imagine that sabad being sung with a tune from kuch kuch hota hai?wouldnt the impact on the sangat be nearly lost?

Good post.

ghorandhar also has a good point.

[chatanga]

ghorandar, i was thingking exactly the samething that you posted. some people say that as long as you do paath, and be a good person then you dont need to keep 5 ks etc, and we say no, 5ks are a must. its the same wiv raag and kirtan.

its is our duty to learn raag vidya on tanti saaj. Guru Ji did no create these so we could toss them aside later. they are important to us as anything in sikhi.

[Chandni Kaur]

im not sure exactly what you mean by filmi tunes, could some one post a clip of a raagi doing such kirtan please?