London Sikhs Dont Support Khalistan News Report Sohan

[gurmzz]

to the guy who posted abt equal rights,

i think we are heading towards a civil war, *yawns* *scratches neck*

[Only five]

First of all, what a generous move to defend the opinion of someone else . You totally went off track from my post. Its called sarcasm. There is no "my version" or "your version" of Sikhi (and yes the name is Sikhi). In case you didn't know, a Gurdwara is supposed to be based on Guru's maryada and Gurmat, not what I or you think. What makes you think that a Gurdwara which is pro-Khalistan is not doing parchar of Naam Simran? Have you been to all of them?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think its you who has a problem (a personal one?) with the idea and concept of Khalistan. Guru Sahib says "raaj bina neh dharm chaley hain, dharm bina sab dalay malay hain. He makes it clear as to WHY one would need raaj. Look at the Islamic coutries. They follow and even enforce Islam in their raaj. Christians do the same in their controlled nations. Hindus are going to the extent of engulfing non-Hindu faiths as "branches of Hinduism" in their raaj, i.e. India. The present day situation of Sikhs in India (and all over the world for that matter) is exactly what Dasmesh Pita Ji said "dharm bina sab dalay malay hain". That is what we've become, dalay malay. Don't worry no one is going to oppress the kind of Sikhs you've enlisted above, because forcing religion down someone's throat is not the Sikhi way, atleast not that I know of. Where have we heard of Gurmukhs like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale forcing people to keep kesh or quit alcohol? Yes he did make them do it, through love and inspiration. Maharaj said "jab eh gaye bipran ki reet, mai nah karu inn ki parteet". Loads of Sikhs are stuck in bipran ki reet already, like going to fake babas, doing other meaningless rituals that are non-Sikh and unSikh to the core. That is why Guru Sahib isn't really doing parteet of such Sikhs. So now we are stuck in bipran ki reet, and therefore we have become dalay malay. The solution is then to have Sikh raaj, to have Khalsa raaj. Guru Sahib also tells us how to get it. "Koi kisi ko raaj nah deh hai, jo leh hai nij bal se leh hai", you have to fight and win it. No one is going to offer it to you. Khalsa raaj is something Gurujee has predicted Himself. The earlier we wake up and accept it, the better. For more, read Bhai Rama Singh Ji's own vision of Khalsa raaj in his autobiography.

By the way, I am not from UK, so I don't know (or want to know) this person in the video, which is why I am not commenting on him. If you are here to defend him, lol, good luck!

"raaj bina neh dharm chaley hain, dharm bina sab dalay malay hain"

Where did you get this quote from, I know one thing it couldnt be out of the Guru Granth Sahibji as gurbani teaches us the complete opposite. Unless you have taken it out of context. Now the following is a complete contradiction and is from SGGSji.

"Raj na chahon mukat na chahon man preet charan kamlarey"

I think you should stop brainwashing our youth into practicing hatred against others and teach them about naam simran, which is reiterated again and again in SGGSji. In my view (and probably not yours) Sikhi isnt about dividing people its probably one of the very few religions that would and could unite the whole of humanity no matter what caste, creed and religion. But I think Superbell used the word 'Idiots' which fits in nicely to portray the kind of people that are using Sikhi to divide views and take people away from the spirtual teachings of SGGSji.

Also where has Guruji predicted Khalistan?

The assumption of Khalistan would divide people is completely wrong. Khalistion would strenghten the Sikhs and with the right men in power, which we can refer to as Khalsa will help where it is needed. Just look at the state of the Panth now. The Akal Takht is run by decievers; Badal.

First things to do is get control of Akal Takit and then move forward to panthic problems. Like Dasam Granth; not a problem some just made it one. Caste should be clearly destroyed. If Khalsa gets a strong hold of Akal Takht, you might not even need Khalistan. For Khalistan to be established alot of work is needed to be done. This can take 50 or even 200 years. Khalistan is a long term goal and the short term goal should be take re-control of Akal Takht. Once the true Khalsas are in power there then the people will listen to Akal Takht and the support for behind Akal Takht will be enough to take on any challenge the Panth faces.

More the chaos in the panth less likely the unity will happen. It's all on the Khalsa to put down there differences and unite for the Panth. So far everyones pride has got the best of them and, well I don't need to repeat the state of the panth-everyone reads the news.

[Mehtab Singh]

So from what you know its a quote. Thats enough reason to use this quote as an excuse for Khalistan? Should you not do your homework before you start putting quotes up on forums? I think you have read this quote somewhere on the internet taken it out of context and you are not even sure where its origin is and you question me when I say you are brainwashing youths...

I don't doubt Dasam Patshah's Bani. If you belong to that camp, sorry, we can't proceed then.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh took up arms to fight oppression from the Moghals, to stop them oppressing the Hindus aswell as other religions in India is that not clear to you, these are the same Hindus that you and other Khalistanis preach hatred against.

You better watch it now. The kicker for you here is that I am born to Punjabi Brahmin Hindu parents, who are still professing their faith. I repeat, don't just throw around labels if you don't know the one you are dealing with. I used to be a die-hard "Jai Hind" freak, but the truth which was bitter exposed the real Indian mentality towards Sikhs. I got nothing against India or Hindus (who happen to be my family members as well). Its the unjust tyrants I can't handle. You got a problem with that?

but the answer is not Khalistan. The answer is not division because SGGSji teaches us the opposite.

Fine, thats your opinion, and feel free to believe in it. Doesn't have to be right, and nobody is going to prosecute you for it.

You are doing this using this forum, whether you know it or not a lot of youth use this forum some to learn about sikhi, we should point them in the direction of SGGSji and help them along the path, not push them in the direction of political issues like Khalistan.

Just like you, I am only expressing my opinion. The youth are free to decide what path they want to choose. I am NOT advocating violence on here, nor am I propagating hatred for India or any non-Sikh community.

I tell you what you read Bhai Rama Singh Jees vision of Khalistan and ill stick to reading my Gurus vision of Khalistan from SGGSji.

Suit yourself buddy. Just remember that Bhai Sahib's vision was in NO way contrary to Gurbani.

Also where has Guruji predicted Khalistan?What is Raj Karega Khalsa then?

'Raj Karega Khalsa' has not been taken from SGGSji nor was this from Sri Guru Gobind Singhji it was added onto ardas by a Sikh poet and is still used today during ardas. So I hope that answers your question.

Please provide reliable and authentic references. I would be interested, and will await comments from other members on this as well.

I repeat, I advise everyone youth, adults, girls, boys, hindus, muslims, jews, christians anyone that breathes to read SGGSji as these are the words from Gurus, Bhagats and Brahmgyanis that are one with God. You can listen and learn FOR FREE from any Gurudwara http://www.gurudwara.net/gurudwaranet/.

Good deal!

P.S. Ive wasted enough time arguing with you now, I could of spent this time doing Naam simran but its Kalyug and the darker powers got the better of me namely Krodh but we live and learn right.

Likewise. Finally we agree on something.

[Mehtab Singh]

khalistan has no sikh angle to it all and as such the name should be scrapped. Punjab will remain Punjab and nothing will change that.

Neither you nor me can decide that by posting on here on an online forum. The name for which thousands have sacrificed their lives and lost everything will not be scrapped. This reminds me of the saying/proverb "To make great achievements, great sacrifices need to be made".

[jalandharsingh]

khalistan has no sikh angle to it all and as such the name should be scrapped. Punjab will remain Punjab and nothing will change that.

Neither you nor me can decide that by posting on here on an online forum. The name for which thousands have sacrificed their lives and lost everything will not be scrapped. This reminds me of the saying/proverb "To make great achievements, great sacrifices need to be made".

The vast majority of the Sikh population was wiped out in the wadha gallughara. Out of this the Sikhs rose and not once did they seek to change the name of Punjab. So we not changing it now whether you like it or not !!!!! The land for which a large proportion of the Sikhs were wiped out will not be superceded by some name dreamt up by a handful of people.

[HeatSikhingMissile]

Khalistan is a political issue and has no place in a Spiritual Gurudwara.

Gurdawaras are where the Guru Granth Sahib Ji Resides. Did the Gurus not talk about social and political issues...............does the phrase Miri Piri mean anything to you ??

Do the terms Gurdwara and Takhat mean anything to you?!?! Sikhiwiki was correct, the Guru's DID seperate politics and religion, Guru Ghar was meant for spiritual enlightenment and Thakhats for political discourse, unfortunately they have merged since Sikhs have lost the plot, I find it hilarious even today that great Western countries are fighting the constant battle of Church and State whereas the Guru Jis had such foresight centuries ago.

[xtremesingh18]

Somebody said:

1)Just because someone doesn't believe in keeping kesh doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh

2)Just because someone thinks its ok to drink alcohol doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh

3)Just because someone thinks its ok to worship Hindu deities doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh

4) Just because someone thinks its no big deal going to fake saints and wearing their threads doesn't mean he/she is not Sikh

em... 1) technically yes.

2)again yes

3) yes, one of the fundamental prnciples of sikhi is there is one God.

4) wats wrong with goin to see fake saints? they are only fake according to ur judgement :S

however anyone can enter the gurdwara regardless of their faith / beliefs

and what does it matter what samra thinks, do u go to havelock road to see him or do u go their to see Guru Ji??

[Mehtab Singh]

4) wats wrong with goin to see fake saints? they are only fake according to ur judgement :S

For the 7th time, that was a sarcastic comment to highlight what kind of logics we will face in future.

khalistan has no sikh angle to it all and as such the name should be scrapped. Punjab will remain Punjab and nothing will change that.

Neither you nor me can decide that by posting on here on an online forum. The name for which thousands have sacrificed their lives and lost everything will not be scrapped. This reminds me of the saying/proverb "To make great achievements, great sacrifices need to be made".

The vast majority of the Sikh population was wiped out in the wadha gallughara. Out of this the Sikhs rose and not once did they seek to change the name of Punjab. So we not changing it now whether you like it or not !!!!! The land for which a large proportion of the Sikhs were wiped out will not be superceded by some name dreamt up by a handful of people.

1.) How do you know they did not want to change it back then?

2.) How do you know the population is handful?

You are right about one thing though. Whatever is meant to happen, will happen, whether I like it or not, or whether you like it or not.

[jalandharsingh]

4) wats wrong with goin to see fake saints? they are only fake according to ur judgement :S

For the 7th time, that was a sarcastic comment to highlight what kind of logics we will face in future.

khalistan has no sikh angle to it all and as such the name should be scrapped. Punjab will remain Punjab and nothing will change that.

Neither you nor me can decide that by posting on here on an online forum. The name for which thousands have sacrificed their lives and lost everything will not be scrapped. This reminds me of the saying/proverb "To make great achievements, great sacrifices need to be made".

The vast majority of the Sikh population was wiped out in the wadha gallughara. Out of this the Sikhs rose and not once did they seek to change the name of Punjab. So we not changing it now whether you like it or not !!!!! The land for which a large proportion of the Sikhs were wiped out will not be superceded by some name dreamt up by a handful of people.

1.) How do you know they did not want to change it back then?

2.) How do you know the population is handful?

You are right about one thing though. Whatever is meant to happen, will happen, whether I like it or not, or whether you like it or not.

Think before you post. Do you not think that Sultan-ul-quam the great Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia could have changed the name if he had wanted? Do you not think the Bhangi sardars could have changed the name.

You can gauge the support for Khalistan by the fact that the pro Khalistan political parties were virtually wiped out in the last state elections. Even the raving loony party in the UK used to get more % vote than the like of Mann managed. The movement is spent and none of the propaganda you spread on the internet is close to ground reality in Punjab.

[Mehtab Singh]

Think before you post. Do you not think that Sultan-ul-quam the great Sardar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia could have changed the name if he had wanted? Do you not think the Bhangi sardars could have changed the name.

They most definitely could have, no doubt. But just because something wasn't done back then doesn't mean it is pointless today as well. At that point of time, survival was the top priority as we were being hunted right and left. Today things are not that bad. Moreover, in the words of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, the day the Indian army walks into Sri Darbar Sahib, the foundation of Khalistan will be laid.

You can gauge the support for Khalistan by the fact that the pro Khalistan political parties were virtually wiped out in the last state elections. Even the raving loony party in the UK used to get more % vote than the like of Mann managed. The movement is spent and none of the propaganda you spread on the internet is close to ground reality in Punjab.

Punjab on this day needs a wake up call first of all. Do not go by what is going on in Punjab because the kind of Khalsa that is envisioned in Khalistan is rare in Punjab today. Like most have posted on here, the masses first need to be educated on Sikhi before anything else. Khalistan will be the last chapter in our "book of struggles" as we need to master the ones before. However, dismissing it as "least important" is what would be a mistake. We have scores of other issues to be sorted before that, and I don't deny that. But just because someone doesn't like a particular idea is no reason to claim that the idea doesn't make sense. And remember, the majority in Punjab that is not in favor of Khalsa Raaj (which most like to talk about and use as a jutification) is not even in Sikhi saroop to begin with, the least requirement to atleast "look like a Sikh". That is chapter 1 which needs to be resolved. The plain and simple truth is, unless you don't wake someone up, they won't realize they were asleep and were dreaming. Simple as that.

We could argue pages over pages on this forum, slapping labels and blames on each other. I have faith on what Gurmukhs have seen and said, you can continue to hold on to whatever you feel is right. Because lets get one thing straight, I am not bothered about changing your opinion, and trust me you can't change mine (not like you would be bothered either).