Is Love Forbidden In Sikhi?

[mskcan]

I believe, the reality is, that True Love is so very difficult to find these days.

The simplistic answers our elders and online community give is 'love is forbidden', and we adopt the Semetic fervor of hellish wrath if we are to even consider it.

The heart is a very powerful force. The force that it emanates is invisible, but can be felt, and even measured.

The heart indeed, has 500x the electromagnetic force, than that compared to the brain!

In an interesting experiment, A study was completed on people who had pets for many years.

Through that experiment, it was discovered that 'at a distance' there were various and repeated cases

of the pet understanding that their owner was 'thinking' of coming home, and the pet would await by the

door for their owner. Unbeknown to the pet, they were being recorded by camera as part of the experiment.

Full details are here: http://www.heartmath.org/templates/ihm/e-newsletter/2010/spring/online/pets-making-a-connection-free-newsletter.php

Although I know the above is in relationship to pets, it is most easy to study their behavior, because animals act merely from the subconscious, or the natural conditioning that is free from the mind. Similar studies have been done in humans, but this was just the most poignant.

Have you ever heard of cases when a mother without knowing where their child was, became drawn to the garden in time to save their child from eminent danger? How about cases where a husband and wife were so in sync that one almost understood what the other was thinking?

How about cases, in which one felt that at a distance a loved one was in harm, and that feeling wouldn't go away until you found out?

The fact of the matter is, in today's egoistic concoction of a world, we are often looking in despair at the lack of love in the world today.

True Love, is both admirable, courageous, and is a True connection to God.

If not, then what was the purpose of Bhai Khanaiya Ji to serve water and medicine to the Mughal army fallen ones?

Love for all of humanity is to be encouraged, and deep love for family and spouse.

Somehow, we just wish to find fault in relationships because of infatuation, and hormonal lust that teenagers have, and in order

to discourage this, we forbid love in any and all forms.

When will we as a community be removed from Satanic preaching, and consider and encourage True Love for community, God, and ultimately

ourselves and our personal relationships?

As we develop into a more egocentric society, in which relationships breakdown, and people continue to find difficulty loving themselves, we remove ourselves further and further from discovering community, cooperation, and family Love.

If we Trust in God, and Believe in the Lord showing us the path, we will find Loving relationships in our lives.

Case in point, at the recent Nihaal 2010 show in massey theatre in New West Canada, one of the key skits presented had to

do with family internal violence. This was shown in both a Practicing and Non-practicing Sikh families. The violence

within our community is well know both to the community members, and the larger society abroad.

Rather than speaking about Sin, Forbidden acts, and misunderstanding and misappropriating Gurbani to attempt to 'prove' our points. Why do we not extend Love from our hearts, to those who come into contact with us in our lives. And Trust God, that we are capable of finding Marriage partners, and more importantly Spiritual partners with whom we can share our lives in a Loving, Nurturing way?

Gurfateh!

[Only five]

Hi Singhni Ji,

Personally I don't know if it is forbidden in Sikhi, but the majority of the sanget seem to think so.

How do you know what love is if you have not felt it. People feel something warm and that comforts them and then define that as love. When this love goes away then it takes for form as sad or hate. Again you define it as hate or sad according to yourself.

In my humble opinon I don't think GOD would ever be upset/ annoyed / disappointed with someone if they fell in love with someone else. Why would GOD - he is all loving the creator! However if you hated or had bad intentions towards someone then maybe GOD would not be pleased.

God doesn't have feelings. God does everything, so why would he be upset with himself for doing something. And what else is there in this world other than God. Only God exist, you and I are just a creation of his(an illusion). God is God and exist in a state we as Sikh are trying to reach. The best we can do is explain his state as love, but again this is lowering the power of God to the finite. Eternal unconditional love would be a better definition here.

I have read some of the posts and, oh come on if you have a b/f or g/f they don't be on your mind 24/7. If you pray i'm sure you do it with 100% concentration. It's like anything else in life you can not think about Waheguru 24/7 it is impossible sometimes you have to concentrate your mind elsewhere.

In Gurbani it says to think about Waheguru 24/7 and it says it is possible. If you love someone then they are on your mind 24/7, even if they bring bad times on you. Like giving you a disease or in the next second blessing you with a cure. Cure is a happy mind and a disease is a sad mind then how can you love Waheguru. If this is what people do then a relationship with a person or Waheguru is just give and take and becomes a business deal. I do 10 minutes of simran and you give me a new car. Waheguru do we have a deal. Same applies to another person. Is a business deal.

As for your parents finding your match, there are many cases of arranged marriages even of Amritdhari couples breaking up or divorcing.

And that is my point. A marriage is only true if it is held with Waheguru love. There is no such thing as love marriages. It's called physical attractive people hook up and lust after each other. An actually love marriage is where physical or medical or education or status is not taken into consideration, but the union happens because they have the divine state. Does God look at a person's above qualifications before he blesses a person with divinty. This person is to ugly or this person doesn't have a leg, oooo well just through them to the jamdoot, better luck next time.

Sorry to offend anyone out there but if you have a g/f or b/f you know them very well before you take the descison to marry. Whereas with many arranged marriages the couple meet a few times, after being married they sleep in the same bedroom / bed. (NOT saying anything else happens ONLY SLEEPING). So I'm very sorry if from my western upbringing I fell that it is better to get to know someone before commting to spend the rest of your life with them.

Then for that matter, you probably don't love God at all. You don't know who or what God is. You don't even know him well then how can you even think about entering into a union with him. A person philosophy should not contradict itself.

Also someone commented on only having 1 spouse in Sikhi, I do not think it is written anywhere that this is true. It can not be, as many Sikhs who are held in high esteem by the panth i.e. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur & Maharaja Ranjit Singh had more than one wife. I know many people have their views both good and bad about these Sikhs. But you can not argue with the fact that our great Guru's 6th and 10th also had more than 1 spouse.

Please forgive me if I have offended anyone here. I have just stated my personal believes.

Read Gurbani, Sikhs are only allowed one spouse at one time. If a spouse dies they can enter into another union with another. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur did not have more then one spouse at one time neither did SatGuru Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji. You have been misinformed and Maharaja Ranjit Singh is not a representation of Sikhi. His actions do not at all speak for Sikhi or stand for Sikhi.

Also you serious need to read the Anand Karaj to better understand what a Sikh marriage is.

[TuhiNirankar]

No romance be4 marriage... end of story

after marriage dont get caught up in KAaam kaam kaam kaam kaaam kaam

thats not wat mariage is about,

if u start relationships be4 marriage and u do activity together then it doesnt work out u dont get married thats MAJOR PANGA

and trust me u wouldnt want to tell u husband what uv done in past relation shipss

thus dont have extra relationships to exercise kaami thoguhts

just totaly cut it out of the picture

only then can we have a relationship with Guru Sahib

but we are kaljugi kaami jeevs and have a hard time controlling oursleves

WE CANT control oursevles

thus surrender in maharajs charann

do dandout to Siri Guru Granth sahib ji

"I am full of kaam im worhtless please pic me up from this dark pit i dug myself into!

Take care of me and arriange my affairs

wherever u keep me i will stay,

Tuhi Tuhi TUHI!"

do abhyaas of this tuk of bani and other tuks of bani relating to kaam to clean ur mind of these thoguhts and dirty habits we have made to look at paraya roop, checking ppl out and having kaami thought, groseee

kwim k®oiD Bry hm AprwDI ]

kaam krodhh bharae ham aparaadhhee ||

I am a sinner, overflowing with sexual desire and anger.

ikAw muhu lY bolh nw hm gux n syvw swDI ]

kiaa muhu lai boleh naa ham gun n saevaa saadhhee ||

With what mouth should I speak? I have no virtue, and I have rendered no service.

fubdy pwQr myil lYhu qum Awpy swcu nwmu AibnwsI hy ]9]

ddubadhae paathhar mael laihu thum aapae saach naam abinaasee hae ||9||

I am a sinking stone; please, Lord, unite me with Yourself. Your Name is eternal and imperishable. ||9||

please checkout this article its very helpful- u need to educate ur self bout kaam so u kno that if u go towards kaam its all loss no gain:

http://khojee.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/charitropakyaan-katha-by-sant-singh-maskeen/

Kaam Article

[gurdssingh]

Only Five,

Please I stated I don't know in relation to Sikhi. My words were:

Personally I don't know if it is forbidden in Sikhi, but the majority of the sanget seem to think so.

In my humble opinon

So I just expressed my personal view.

How do you know what love is if you have not felt it

How do you know what love is? How do you know if I have not felt it? LOVE can be defined in many ways by the person who experiences it.

People feel something warm and that comforts them and then define that as love. When this love goes away then it takes for form as sad or hate. Again you define it as hate or sad according to yourself.

Maybe you are talking about something else like lust or temporary relations, I don't know what you are describing please clarify. True love, lasts. You know when you are experiencing it.

God doesn't have feelings. God does everything, so why would he be upset with himself for doing something.

Point noted thank you, you are right. How can I know what GOD feels, as GOD does everything GOD has no feelings.

But sometimes it is hard to use correct terminolgy with regards to GOD. You used the word he. GOD is GOD, neither he nor she.

In Gurbani it says to think about Waheguru 24/7 and it says it is possible.

So do you? Is everyone that perfect? What happens when are sleeping, can anyone prove that? How about at work or maybe you are still studying? When you have to sit an exam and give all your concentration to do something or answer an exam question can you do both think of Waheguru and figure out the answer?

Then for that matter, you probably don't love God at all. You don't know who or what God is. You don't even know him well then how can you even think about entering into a union with him.

Maybe I don't know GOD, I am still seeking GOD.

A person philosophy should not contradict itself.

Where is the contradiction?

[Only five]

Only Five,

Please I stated I don't know in relation to Sikhi. My words were:

Personally I don't know if it is forbidden in Sikhi, but the majority of the sanget seem to think so.

In my humble opinon

So I just expressed my personal view.

How do you know what love is if you have not felt it

How do you know what love is? How do you know if I have not felt it? LOVE can be defined in many ways by the person who experiences it.

The answer lies in your response. The fact that many people define love in many ways it does not make their definition correct. The only definition of love that is true is how Guru Sahib describes it. And to my understanding so far that is best described as Eternal unconditional love. Eternal, because it never dies. Unconditional, because it never decreases or increase, no matter what happens. The bond between a husband and wife is to be attached together by this kind of union. Only then are the two individuals one soul in two bodies(anand Karaj). Even though I am not God, I have an idea of what God is by reading Gurbani(our mool mantar discussion). Same goes for love. Because I read Gurbani I have understood what love truly means. If I could I wouldn't even attach love to this kind of relationship because it is misleading(the western society has completely distorted the words meaning), but it's the best word that others can understand; the experience attached to it. if you have noticed I don't attach feelings to the definition. For this we have to go back to mool mantar. We are trying to become one with God then how can we expect any less from our own selves. Feelings have no room in love.

People feel something warm and that comforts them and then define that as love. When this love goes away then it takes for form as sad or hate. Again you define it as hate or sad according to yourself.

Maybe you are talking about something else like lust or temporary relations, I don't know what you are describing please clarify. True love, lasts. You know when you are experiencing it.

The definition of true love has been clouded by dumbing it down. Love never fades or dies. But people say this word based on conditions(related to what I wrote above). Hence why divorces happen. This same feeling people describe as love turns into hate and there is no room in actual love for lust. Lust occurs becuase of a condition(attractiveness). Now take love, as defined by people now. What is it based on, Attractivness. If the person is attractive then he/she is going to love that person more. Remember the true definition of love is Eternal unconditional love. Take the attractivness away and all of a sudden that feeling which you thought was love is gone(you can replace attractivness with anything else like attitude, height any other variable). So when people say I had a love marriage what they truly means is, I found the other person to be attractive enough to marry me(or it could be some other condition like money, power, attitude). A true love marriage exist only if both go in with knowing nothing about each other and you have put your complete trust in Guru Sahib to pick the right person for you. Whether that person has the conditions or not should not matter, attractive, educated, power, money, status. But one condition is above all that is not a condition, but a requirment if you live as a Sikh. He/she is Amritdhari and practice Sikhi.

God doesn't have feelings. God does everything, so why would he be upset with himself for doing something.

Point noted thank you, you are right. How can I know what GOD feels, as GOD does everything GOD has no feelings.

But sometimes it is hard to use correct terminolgy with regards to GOD. You used the word he. GOD is GOD, neither he nor she.

I use he because Guru Sahib also uses masculine form. When you say God would not be upset(has feelings) with someone you are talking about limiting God to worldly ways, you are describing God. Using 'he' is a form not to describe God at all, but to describe a relationship one has with God. In Gurbani everyone is a soul bride of Waheguru and he is Husband.

In Gurbani it says to think about Waheguru 24/7 and it says it is possible.

So do you? Is everyone that perfect? What happens when are sleeping, can anyone prove that? How about at work or maybe you are still studying? When you have to sit an exam and give all your concentration to do something or answer an exam question can you do both think of Waheguru and figure out the answer?

What I do or don't do, is immaterial. What Gurbani tells us to do is, and this is to think about God 24/7, what matter here. For the full understanding on this you need to read Gurbani. When a person sleeps, eats, writes, writes a test, any other task you think is difficult to do without full attention, Guru Sahib says be thinking about God 24/7(it seems like a real hard thing to do, but with practicing Sikhi more a person understands). With alot of meditation and dedication all of this is possible. A person that is truly in love with Waheguru is not limited by anything.

Then for that matter, you probably don't love God at all. You don't know who or what God is. You don't even know him well then how can you even think about entering into a union with him.

Maybe I don't know GOD, I am still seeking GOD.

A person philosophy should not contradict itself.

Where is the contradiction?

The contradiction is when you say:

Sorry to offend anyone out there but if you have a g/f or b/f you know them very well before you take the descison to marry.

and, the fact you don't know much about God, but here you are trying to marry him. I'm not trying to discourage you from Sikhi, but telling you when you love Waheguru, this relationship start off blind(the person is blind), just like a true love marriage between two individuals. We have faith in Waheguru and if someone gets an arranged marriage and the family is Gursikh that faith both have in Waheguru will not make them have doubts of the other person, whether the person suit their match or not.

Read this it'll help you understand what I am saying in terms of having faith. http://www.sikhsanga..._0entry456585

[gurdssingh]

Only Five,

Thanks for the link I will view it. Maybe we have different views on topics. So if we disagree on somethings intially, I do appriciate the links you provide.

[Guest lucinder]

in SGGSJ it says husband and wife should be like soulmates.

It says treat everyone with love, but be attached to noone we come and go alone with only guruji and god with us. Strong love attaches us to people strongly and in order to overcome this we need to realise the true nature of everything- taht everything is Him and is created by Him. Also our souls have been placed in many vessels before these ones and will journey elsewhere after death so most people don't really know who they are or where they came from. If we don't really know someone our love for them is false.

[superduper]

I hope not.