Ravidassiya'S Hating On Sikhs

[genie]

I'm sure some of you have come across youtube video's where in their feud with jatts have abused Sikhs and Sikhism including Sant Bhindranwale making derogetory videos of him. Some Sikhs mistakenly thought it was hindu's at first but picture has come clear that it was chumaar ravidassiya's. So question is how do you deal with these scummy people, do we stay slient and let them abuse Sikhi and our sants?

[Singh559]

Why would you turn this into a caste thing? You can't label a group for one person's action(s)...

What we should do? Ignore it, that's all there is to it. If you ignore it they will stop on their own. When needed make an educated reply, don't incite more hatred or heat by contributing to negativity.

[whyhellothere]

Lol alot of ravidassiyas want to be called ravidassiyas just as many sikhs like to be called jatts.

We're stuck in a self created situation which directly contradicts our very heritage and ancestors. We've become like different races with different names(castes).

I believe the poster was calling them ravidassiyas as a way of identifying them, kind of like how on equal opportunities forms people are divided into categories like black, white, Indian(not brown), chinese and all the rest of it or in criminal situations where a suspect is described as caucasion, black or oriental looking.

But yeh saying a few ravidassiyas would have been better because people are gonna take it as a discriminatory or derogatory remark.

Having said that, as sikhi shuns the caste system I'll say that anyone who has a problem with someone identifying an individual as a ravidassiya jatt or any other caste needent because the only people offended will be those who identify themselves with a caste.

If someone calls me a jatt or a silly jatt I wont respond because although my family are jatt, I wont take on that title- I'm a sikh.

[Paneer Monster]

just something i wanted to share quickly: for many years my family had provided the ravidas gurdwara produce from our shop for langar (ive called it a gurdwara because previously Sache Patshah Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji would be theirin). I think it would be wrong for me to name the specific location of this ravidas place as there is a lot of tention there at the moment.

anyways following the killing of ramanand they came in to our shop and told us stright up that they have been given a edict or hukam by some senior in their community to only collect food from other ravidasis (because my family are not ravidas... they are not even sikh by definition, they are mainstreme punjabis). anyways... following the killing of their ramanand they protested rather loudly across london calling for a ban on the sikh kirpan. i am sure we are all aware of the incidences that had taken place in punjab following the killing.

my point: it will take alot now to rebuild bridges between common punjabis, sikhs and the ravidass community. needless for me to say, Sikhi does strongly promote equality, Ravidasiya's do have a place in Sikhi. However, unfortionatly as long as most ravidasis believe that 'aarti' is not "the most important prayer" in gurbani there will always be that thick seperating line between them and us.

prior to the whole vienna thing, the ravidassiya i had associated with seemed down to earth although their belief was different.

PS: i do agree that ravidasiyas do wanto be addressed as ravidassiyas. They do want to be seen as seperate - generally speaking.

[SinghWarrior]

This issue is being driven by RSS in India.

They want to cause split in community for their own benefit, and weaken Sikhi further. They are using Ramanand incident to fuel fire between castes, and build separate identity for "Ravidassis". Sad thing is, common "chamaar" (I hate to say this) is falling for it, as Sikhi is against caste, though average Punjabi Jatt/Tarkhaans Sikhs are also to blame as they don't treat their fell chamaar GurSikh brothers with equality. Situation in Punjab is so bad now that there is violence nearly every day in one area or another, based on Ravidassias demanding their rights, though Badal does nothing to stop the violence as he wants the votes of the Ravidassia community. Average non-Ravidassia Sikh is feeling victimised in Punjab.

What's happening in the West is just an extension of what's happening in India. Our role should be treat "chamaar" brothers and sisters with respect and love, and overcome the caste dividing barriers that elders have established (though which our Gurus were so against). In this way, we will fail the RSS agenda.

[dalsingh101]

Let's be frank. Ravidasias or so-called 'low castes' in general have been treated quite badly by some 'Sikhs' over time.

This has gone beyond a generally haughty attitude towards them has involved violence, rape and murder. There is also a concerted effort to keep them 'in their place' whenever they try to rise up in India also, this isn't confined to the Panjab but many other states too.

Hatred and supremacist attitudes between castes have become deeply ingrained in the panth now. Mainly because they have been ignored for so long. You can see how this has manifest itself by the way many villages in Panjab now practice a form of apartheid segregating castes at different ends of the villages, deny the use of communal facilities like wells. This has even crept into out most intimate religious practices with the chautha paur which essentially excludes people from the amrit sanchaar ceremony due to their caste.

I've seen my own family at it, especially in the really derogatory way they use the words chumaar or chuhra as an insult. That just highlights how they have dehumanised such people.

The ONLY way forward is to apply a healing touch of warmth and inclusion. It was dasvin padshah ji himself who said 'Rangretta, Guru ka bheta' and who himself was baptised with so called low castes, something some <banned word filter activated> Sikhs think they are above today?

We need someone to unite us and make us strong. Not people who will fracture us further and have us infighting. Let's recognised the injustice done through greed and hankaar towards certain communities and then change things for the better? Seems like the most sensible option.

Just watch out for the casteist hate mongers - they have a habit of hiding their intentions, but don't be fooled. The future of the panth does belong with the young, it will be a hard and long battle, but it has to be fought. We can change things bit by bit. We need to start by examining our own attitudes first. We can't keep blaming the RSS or Hindus or anyone else for all of our problems all the time. Sometimes we can actually be at fault ourselves.

[GPS]

This has even crept into out most intimate religious practices with the chautha paur which essentially excludes people from the amrit sanchaar ceremony due to their caste.

This is very very serious matter.This is the first time i have read this.

Please provide example/ reference so that this is brought into attention

of Akal Takhat.

[dalsingh101]

This is very very serious matter.This is the first time i have read this.

Please provide example/ reference so that this is brought into attention

of Akal Takhat.

Brother this is no big secret. I thought pretty much all people where aware of chautha paur in some traditional sampardayas?

I'm sure other people are aware of this also. If so please speak out.

I'm pretty sure the people in Amritsar are aware of this already. Like I said, it is no secret.

I'm sure you've seen this already, but it is well worth another look

about it for the youth:

[GPS]

Brother this is no big secret. I thought pretty much all people where aware of chautha paur in some traditional sampardayas?

My question is specific to your note about Amrit ceremony wherein you wrote that low catse

are excluded from Amrit ceremony.

Can you provide us the refrence here? Please do not generalise as this is very serious issue.

You should know that sampardaiye have low caste baptized sikhs who are treated at par like anyother

baptized sikh.

[dalsingh101]

Please read my original post more carefully, I said some sampardayas were doing this, not all.

I've heard as much from relatives in off the cuff conversations and am sure I've read as much on the Internet occasionally. No, I haven't gone out there to document the practice, so I have no documentable evidence.

I am curious though, do you think that this does not take place. Has nobody here heard of the chautha paur?

PS - It is not complete exclusion but from what I understand, so called low castes take amrit from a different bata to higher castes. Hope this clears it up. This isn't to say every last sampardaya does this, but that it takes place.

What you need to do is contact the Akal Takhat and have them look into Chautha Paur practices.