What Made Sikhs Such Great Soldiers

[yubacitysingh]

what you mean in someone else's country the uk canada america arn't someone else's country's their home for everyone who is a citizen

[ks55]

All the more necesaary for sikhs to build rich insitutions within their host countries - serving all - to earn the respect we deserve - this is what the jews did after 2nd world war- but we can't trust one another let alone build insititutions - dream on

[HSD1]

All the more necesaary for sikhs to build rich insitutions within their host countries - serving all - to earn the respect we deserve - this is what the jews did after 2nd world war- but we can't trust one another let alone build insititutions - dream on

:huh2:

That's not the only thing they did.

[yubacitysingh]

looking at the history of sikhs theirs so many inspirational stories in how driven they were, but as time goes on their less and less sikhs who can conquere such great feats

as well purpose of this thread is why arn't sikhs fired up like they use to be, it can be in anything, instead sikhs make excuses, if the why and emotional drive is strong enough then people make things happen

also i have a thread up just for this what fires people up http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/63344-what-are-some-things-that-motivate-you-guys-to-hit-your-goals/

i don't know to much about bhullar and his death sentence but if sikhs could come together with a fire for justice then we would just use democracy to our advantage by threatening politicans in punjab we will vote for who saves bhullar and end the careers of those who don't, but instead like said earlier another problem is sikhs are driven by greed and ego and are so selfish

you got to love how much emphasis is given in this speech about working together and team work

[JSinghnz]

I hope this answers your question.

We Sikhs are not great, we are the GREATEST.

Maj. General M. Khan of Pakistan wrote in his book

'Crisis of Leadership' about the bravery of the Sikh

soldiers during the Indo-Pak war. Here are some

excerpts:

"....the main reason of our defeat was Sikhs fighting

facing us. We were helpless to do anything in front of

them. Sikhs are very brave and they have a great

craving for martyrdom. They fight so fiercely that

they are capable of defeating an army many times

bigger than theirs."

"....On 3rd December 1971, we fiercely and vigorously

attacked the Indian army with our infantry brigade

near Hussainiwala border.. This brigade included

Pakistan army's fighter Punjabi regiment together with

the Baloch regiment. Within minutes we pushed the

Indian army quite far back. Their defence posts fell

under our control. The Indian army was retreating back

very fast and the Pakistani army was going forward

with a great speed. Our army reached near the

Kausre-Hind post. There was a small segment of the

Indian army appointed to defend that post and their

soldiers belonged to the Sikh Regiment. A few number

of the Sikh Regiment stopped our way forward like an

iron wall. They loudly greeted us with the ovation of

'Bole-so-Nihal' and attacked us like blood thirsty

hungry lions and hawks. All these soldiers were Sikhs.

There was even a dreadful hand-to-hand battle. The sky

filled with roars of 'Yaa Ali' and 'Sat-Siri-Akal'.

Even in this hand-to-hand fighting the Sikhs fought so

bravely that all our desires, aspirations and dreams

were shattered."

".....In this war Lt. Col Gulab Hussain of Baloch

Regiment got killed. With him Major Mohammed Zaeef and

Captain Arif Alim also died. It was difficult to count

the number of soldiers who got killed. We were

astonished to see the courage of those handful of Sikh

soldiers. When we seized the possession of the

three-storey defence post of concrete, the Sikh

soldiers went onto the roof and kept on persistently

opposing us. The whole night they kept on showering

fires on us and continued shouting the loud ovation of

'Sat-Siri-Akal'. These Sikh soldiers kept on the

encounter till the next day.

Next day the Pakistani tanks surrounded this post and

bombed it with guns. Those handful of Sikhs got

martyred in this encounter while resisting us, but

other Sikh soldiers then destroyed our tanks with the

help of their artillery. Fighting with great bravery

they kept on marching forward and thus our army lost

its foothold."

"....Alas, a handful of Sikhs converted our great

victory into a big defeat and shattered our confidence

and courage. ."

"....The same thing happened with us in

Dhaka(Bangladesh). In the battle of Jaissur, the

Singhs opposed the Pakistani army so fiercely that our

backbone and our foothold was lost. This became the

main and important reason of our defeat and the Sikhs'

fancy for martyrdom and mockery with death for the

sake of safety and honour of the country, became the

sole cause of their victory."

Similar type of comments were made by Pakistani army

in East Pakistan under the leadership of General Niazi

while surrendering their weapons to General Jagjit

Singh Arora. The bravery and spirit of sacrifice of

Sikhs were respected and honoured by one and all. May

God rest the souls of all the fallen soldiers (Sikhs

and Pakistanis), in peace. Thought: "Sawa Lakh se ek

laraun, chirian to(n) main baaj taranun, tabhe Gobind

Singh naam kahaun" (Unless I raise one to stand

against many, cause sparrow spurn hawk, I shall not

deserve to be called Gobind Singh.)

Just one example of millions of our bravery.

BE PROUD OF OUR HERITAGE.

[Cisco_Singh]

I know that we as Sikhs like to paint a rose tinted view of ourselves as being pure, spiritual naam jaaping warriors but I'm not convinced that most Singhs were like that.

When you read historical accounts that others have written about us, it sounds like there was a big variety.

Many historical accounts paint the picture that Sikhs were very aggressive and fanatical fighters. Particularly accounts by the British suggest that Singhs were pretty dirty fighters. They would often show little mercy and butcher the wounded. Sometimes they would pretend like they have surrendered, and when the opponent turned their back would stick them from behind. Singhs would often mutilate the bodies of their enemies as a warning and as a way to intimidate them.

Of course there were some singhs who had a great jeevan and did lots of simran, bani etc and that would have contributed to their warrior prowess. However, I think that most of the time, they were basically just normal guys but extremely fierce and aggressive as fighters.

I agree such is the art of warfare. kill or be killed. Deception is a weapon. Hit and run tactics, guerilla warfare etc are all classic Sikh battle tactics. Fight on the periphery skirmish never engage the enemy directly as they outnumber you, draw them out and frustrate them pick them off slowly demoralise them etc.

Theres also stories of how Sikhs would delibrately maim and leave enemies badly injured but not kill them,.Leave them deliberately on the battlefield to catch infection and die. Or disembowel an enemy and leave his intestines around his neck. Why ? Physchogical warfare...you can kill 100 but scare 100 million with stories of what sorts of deaths await them....A fear spreading tactic.

Anyone who went to GT1588 exhibition on the "Abode of the Warrior" day of talks would have heard Nidar Singh Nihang, Davinder Toor etc talk of such stories from Sikh history.

[HSD1]

what you mean in someone else's country the uk canada america arn't someone else's country's their home for everyone who is a citizen

That's exactly my point. A Sikh is affected by their country of birth more than they are by an untangible history of a militarised state and nation. It's no coincidence that people use phrases like 'hippy sikh' or 'taliban sikh' to describe one another rather than using more appropriate names. Or look at how in some American Gurudwaras where they fly the Stars and Stripes alongside or even higher than the Nishan Sahib. Sikhs are proportionally represented in the armies of most of the countries they live in.

Why should Sikhs increase their numbers in the military? There is no one size fits all solution. Going out and buying a hammer means that one day you have to use it. Even if Sikhs joined the armies of the world in large numbers, would we be socially, economically, politically and intellectually ready for the consequences of an armed struggle against us by people who see us as big enough to slap down but small enough to contain?

[pedrorizzo]

That's exactly my point. A Sikh is affected by their country of birth more than they are by an untangible history of a militarised state and nation. It's no coincidence that people use phrases like 'hippy sikh' or 'taliban sikh' to describe one another rather than using more appropriate names. Or look at how in some American Gurudwaras where they fly the Stars and Stripes alongside or even higher than the Nishan Sahib. Sikhs are proportionally represented in the armies of most of the countries they live in.

Why should Sikhs increase their numbers in the military? There is no one size fits all solution. Going out and buying a hammer means that one day you have to use it. Even if Sikhs joined the armies of the world in large numbers, would we be socially, economically, politically and intellectually ready for the consequences of an armed struggle against us by people who see us as big enough to slap down but small enough to contain?

This is a very good point. Sikhs saw this first hand in 84. With large numbers of Sikhs in the military, nonone thought that the Indian Government would dare to touch us. However, when it did finally kick off, it was clear that the command and control structure of the Indian Army, the brainwashing, Indian Nationalism and attempts to keep the Sikh soldiers on board was enough to stop them from rising up in any consequential way.

However, on the flipside, there are other benefits of large numbers of Sikhs being in the army. The fact that it produced military strategists of the calibre of Major General Subeg Singh, who if brought on board with a panthic struggle, could do some serious damage. Also, during civil unrest, having a large number of ex-servicemen or guys exposed to military training is an advantage. Sikhs, were able to enjoy this advantage in organisation and experience, during the partition for example and did a good job of protecting the community and clearing out the <banned word filter activated> from East Punjab, despite their smaller numbers.

The other advantage of joining the military of the nations in which we have migrated is that it becomes a good bargaining tool. We have used it successfully for many years and it has been one of our best cards to get things done our way. Eg, the sacrifices of Sikhs in WW1 and WW2 can be used to imply patriotism to Britain, and has helped in many Sikh campaigns, eg the wearing of turbans on motorcycles etc.

However, I take your point. Large numbers of Sikhs in the military does not necessarily mean that we are prepared for armed struggle. This is just one piece in the jigsaw puzzle. Unfortunately, we as a community are so un ready for war that it is actually scary. And the people that call for war in our community are highly irresponsible for even suggesting it.

[HSD1]

I know what you mean Pedrorizzo. I would like to see more Sikhs in the military. It's a (relatively) steady job, gives training and the more Sikhs who join lowers the chances of bullying/discrimination. But having said that joining up out of some ideal that our host countries love us and bend over backwards for us is misguided. In the 80s the British Army tried to prevent Sikhs getting training as they were worried they would be seen as supporting the Khalistan movement. Recently, when the Army tried to set up a Sikh Regiment, all sorts crawled out of the woodwork to oppose it. The Indian government, Hindu and Muslim UK groups and all other sorts. Faced with them on one hand and half hearted promises or hyperbole by our own community leaders it's no surprise the Army took the advice of the racial commission and 'shelved' the idea. Talking about stuff like this on a public forum is just plain stupid and makes us sound far more dangerous than we are. Yubacitysingh's heart might be in the right place and he gives good reasons for more Sikhs to join the military. But not everyone will see it like that, and going on and on about it on a forum that is so public and probably monitorred is incredibly naive and stupid.

If you want to make a change yourself, change your family, change your friends, change how your Gurudwara is run, change your community.

If joining the armed forces is part of how you will change yourself, please look into it carefully and not jump in because you have a rose tinted view of how it will pan out.

[yubacitysingh]

england canada america arn't like india 1984, these western country's are home to everyone thats why you have minority's doing so well look at the american whitehouse or the sikhs in canadian parliment or success of sikhs in england, also indians are the most economically successfull community in america

these are our country's and our homes, these country's are home to all who live their

and joining the army gives you free post secondary education, you learn leadership skills, you learn to fight advirsity, you learn to set and hit goals, you gain so much respect heck if your a war veteran you'll never get a speeding ticket 90% of the time if your pulled over unless you act like an <banned word filter activated> and get vip treatment in many places, also for the singh's cryiing about girls not liking sardars in the states its college athletes and war vet's who get the most women

AND ITS NOT FIGHTING FOR YOUR COUNTRY BUT FOR HUMANITY AS A SAINT SOLDIER, YES THEIR ARE A MINORITY OF BAD APPLES IN EACH ARMY, BUT THATS WHY WE NEED MORE SAINT SOLDIERS ON THE BATTLEFIELD

AS WELL ITS A SIKHS JOB TO BE TRAINED IN COMBAT, IF WE ARE WELL TRAINED IN COMBAT AND WELL ORGANISED HECK WE COULD BRING JUSTICE FOR SIKHS IN INDIA, AS WELL THE PAKIS WOULDN'T BULLY THE SIKHS IN ENGLAND CAUSE OF THE MILITARY TRAINING, THE SIKHS IN AMERICA IF MOST SARDARS WERE TRAINED IN COMBAT LIKE BOXING MUAY THAI AND JOINED THE MARINES THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THOSE SKILLS AGAINST ANYONE WHO TRIED ATTACKING THEM