Why Did God Allow Sikhs To Be Defeated First Second Anglo Sikh War

[VanHelsingh]

...if we are to believe in one universal god then we must realise that god doesn't just belong to us.

Yes. The quicker some of us take the above to heart, the better we'll be at being able to take responsibility for our own actions, and we might actually motivate ourselves to do something that will make a difference.

We aren't like Jews, i.e. we shouldn't believe we are God's "Chosen People" by default. If we really want to be the best we should start showing our mettle through a determination to learn and live by Gurbani and eventually follow the path shown to us by Dasmeh Pathshah.

[Auzer]

Bit off-topic but i think you really need to study that period as you are totally wrong that British forces were stronger than Khalsa Sarkar Army. Heard about Dogra brothers and how they sold out sikh plans to British in exchange of Kashmir. Do you know about traitors Lal SIngh and Teja Singh (so called generals of Sikh Army) deserted their post and tried to loot treasuary of Mahraja Ranjit Singh. Did you hear that ex-napolean army leaders worked under Ranjit SIngh and gave training to khalsa sarkar army. Do you know the name General Allard who was with Ranjit till his death. There were several non-sikh army mercenry, leaders, trainers who equiped khalsa army and soldiers belief in Sikhi is the reason why we were the best force in world history. Sadly, it was british who backstabbed sikhs by doing backend deals with traitors "Dogra Brothers". Also pay of Ranjit SIngh army soldiers were twice than what british soldiers were earning under queen victoria rule.

Point me any successfull King in history who never killed nor gave any capital punishment in his kingdom. If i want to make mockery of other kingdom then i don't have to far and point several past wife-hanging crazy kings of UK. At the same time, if i want to then i can go on praising punjabis then i can go on and talk about the more advanced civilization of the world [harappa and mohenjdaro].

Well AGAIN...have you ever wondered that WHY 'traitors' are only born in OUR cultures? Why didn't any Britisher became traitor? If you have read military history , you would know how LOYAL Russians were in ww2 against the Nazis..The point is : We should NOT live in past glory...We should live to improve our present and future. USA is the dominant powers...suppose 100 years after they go down...who would ,then, care about Americans? Anyone? I gave the example of Muslims/Islam not because I am Muslim but to give you the most precise example. There is NO culture in recent recorded history of 2500 years,that I know of, that remained GLOBAL (not just regional) dominant power for 70% time of its entire history but Muslims/Islam did (1000+ out of 1400 years) !!!!! But look at the situation now...Does it matter how glorious your past was? Even if it is the MOST glorious past in ALL history but yet its P A S T . Period. What matters is present and future. Learn and inspire from your past but don't remain stuck with it...You know what I am saying?

America being the super power of the world in terms of techonology and arm power.. With all of that, they still couldn't control Afghanistan.. Its been like what? 10 years + ? DId you know how long it took Hari SIngh Nalwa under the guidance of Raja Ranjit SIngh defeated and sealed the invaders passage up in Afghanistan? Even after hundreds of years, there's still legend talks about sikh bravery in Afghanistan and not long time ago, old afghan bibian use to say.. "Stop playing around and Sleep now child.. otherwise hari nalwa will come..."

If you want to learn about history then you have to read books written by both side of world. Reading one side of the history written by british authors on Anglo-sikh history is of course going to have your views largely biased against sikhs and the residents of Punjab.

Well I must tell you that I am a member of different defense forums on the internet. I have interacted with "professionals" and I would be doing higher studies in Political Science-International relations...etc..Its not that I am bragging about it but what I am saying is that I KNOW about this strategic military-polictical issues....Now coming to the topic in hand...*Militarily* The United States military WON CLEARLY in Iraq and Afghanistan too. What you need to understand is that Al Qaeda engaged USA in an type of warfare which is called as "Assymetric warfare" . American military,or any military for that matter , can not "win" in Assymetric warfare. It all comes down to your political standing in the region and support of the people with the surgical military operations. Americans don't have any standing in Afghanistan nor do people support them..Its more of a 'political' conflict and not a war and hence we can't judge American convential military capability on the basis of their experience in Afghanistan...So the point stands : Technology+industrial power and economic capacity 'wins' today's wars ....bravery does not play the 'central' role in winning any war today.

And I am not being biased...I am just saying that Sikhs should not ask "God" that why they lost..its all in the hands of us humans...As Darwin said "survival of the fittest" ...

[Auzer]

@Auzer,".bravery doesn't win wars anymore..technology and economic power does !!!!

Then why did Pakistan who had much better technology and much advanced weaponry donated

to it by America lost every war with India.

It was only the bravery of the Indian army especially the Sikh regiment which gave a bloody

nose to the pakistanis.

http://www.sikhsanga...__fromsearch__1

mmmmmm Well bro you are very wrong there. I won't discuss it with you here because;

1- Its not the right place to discuss these issues

2- You are just not well-read enough to understand complex underpinnings of war and its political objectives (Doesn't mean to offend you..Indians 'general public' believes that they won the wars and Pakistani general public believe that they won the war lol)

Don't you think that if Pakistan had "lost" all the wars against India, we would've become like Bhutan and India would have had atleast *some* influence on us? lol...Thats clearly not the case ...We still talk at EQUAL terms (though we are ten times SMALLER than you....mmmmm realized something? ) ...

PS No doubt that Sikhs are very brave. Even in Pakistan , we do say that Indian Army is useless if there were no Sikh regments and few Gorkha one's...People of central India were never really "fighters" ...

[singhapore]

Bro auzer? Are you a Pakistani Sikh? Just curious with the term 'we' tagged with 'pakistan'

[KhalistaniGunMan]

.So the point stands : Technology+industrial power and economic capacity 'wins' today's wars ....bravery does not play the 'central' role in winning any war today.

And I am not being biased...I am just saying that Sikhs should not ask "God" that why they lost..its all in the hands of us humans...As Darwin said "survival of the fittest" ...

I have to agree with you..if waheguru was going to meddle in the affairs of humans..then their would be no need for waheguru to create dharam or even the khalsa...the righteouss are here on earth to advance, learn, adapt and defeat the adharmi (unrighteous) people with whatevver means possible...we as sikhs have failed to seperate the miri from the piri...a sikh has a spiritual responsibility and also a temporal one...its our duty to progress and improve our standing in the world through manipulating maya to our benefits...we should not try to stay seperate from maya..we should control its use and make it our slave...we should not alienate ourselves...i have to agree with auzer...i referd to this before with the akaali nihangs and their lack of advancement in millitary equipment and millitary tactics which resulted in their defeat in the early battles of anglo sikh wars...bravery is a huge advantage on the battlefield..but millitary/economic power prevails in yudh

[KhalistaniGunMan]

Bro auzer? Are you a Pakistani Sikh? Just curious with the term 'we' tagged with 'pakistan'

he is a muslim...who unlike most pakistani muslims..seems to be talking alot of sense lol no offence intended

[Auzer]

Bro auzer? Are you a Pakistani Sikh? Just curious with the term 'we' tagged with 'pakistan'

No bro...I am a Pakistani Muslim (by roots) and now I am living in America...I really,really wish that any Pakistani Sikh come to this forum too...

[JSinghnz]

mmmmmm Well bro you are very wrong there. I won't discuss it with you here because;

1- Its not the right place to discuss these issues

2- You are just not well-read enough to understand complex underpinnings of war and its political objectives (Doesn't mean to offend you..Indians 'general public' believes that they won the wars and Pakistani general public believe that they won the war lol)

Don't you think that if Pakistan had "lost" all the wars against India, we would've become like Bhutan and India would have had atleast *some* influence on us? lol...Thats clearly not the case ...We still talk at EQUAL terms (though we are ten times SMALLER than you....mmmmm realized something? ) ...

PS No doubt that Sikhs are very brave. Even in Pakistan , we do say that Indian Army is useless if there were no Sikh regments and few Gorkha one's...People of central India were never really "fighters" ...

Just shows your inferiority complex and a loser mentality when you remark,"You are just not well-read enough to understand complex underpinnings of war and its political objectives" . Every loser has these kind of characteristics and you are just proving that fact. It is indeed quite amusing and laughable that the general public in pakistan think they won the wars against India. And that must have been brainwashed into the people's mindset.

Talking at EQUAL terms is another example of living in a fools' paradise. In what sphere is pakistan equal to India? And before playing the "we are soooo small " card, think of how small Israel is and how it has shown its strength to the much larger Arab world and kept them at bay for decades.

Think twice before trying to show your poor knowledge and arrogance on this site as we have no time for these kind of behavior.

[hgsingh]

Auzer the pakistanis lost the first war cause they didn't get kashmire and lost third war cause they lost bangledesh

*Mod Edited*

[Auzer]

Just shows your inferiority complex and a loser mentality when you remark,"You are just not well-read enough to understand complex underpinnings of war and its political objectives" . Every loser has these kind of characteristics and you are just proving that fact. It is indeed quite amusing and laughable that the general public in pakistan think they won the wars against India. And that must have been brainwashed into the people's mindset.

Talking at EQUAL terms is another example of living in a fools' paradise. In what sphere is pakistan equal to India? And before playing the "we are soooo small " card, think of how small Israel is and how it has shown its strength to the much larger Arab world and kept them at bay for decades.

Think twice before trying to show your poor knowledge and arrogance on this site as we have no time for these kind of behavior.

Well you just proved that you are just another gullible internet kid that is brainwashed by Indian media? I didn't say Pakistan is 'equal' to India..I said that Pakistan and India engage eachother on EQUAL terms..that is we talk on EQUAL level. There is a difference. And Your analogy of Israel is perfect here. THAT is my point ..being ten times smaller and YET being able to talk on EUQAL TERMS even after fighting four wars with an 9/10 TIMES larger adversary really tells you something , doesn't it? :stupidme: Does India have ANY influence on Pakistan? Did it take back Kashmir? What long term political objective did you achieve after 4 wars with Pakistan? Were you able to do a 'surgical strike' on Pakistan after Mumbai incident after all the hot air of Indian media and public? Also my dear sir , it would probably hurt you--since you just another gullible internet warrior--but let me tell you that Wikileaks published a leak of AMERICAN ambassador to India...in this leak ..American Ambassador has sent a message to US authorities informing them about the ground realities..He said that in case of a war , Pakistani military would inflict heavy damages on Indian military and Indian military would suffer heavy casualities. Now THESE are the real ground realities and one of the most credible ones.Ambassadors don't lie to thier authorities afterall lols..Also have you read the acconts of Samir Chopra and Jagan Mohan regarding 1965' war? You probably didn't know that American Aviation week commented "PAF aerial victory over IAF is same as Israeli victory over the Arabs."? .. Did the war endat STALEMATE? If yes then tell me when a TEN TIMES LARGER country signs a STALEMATE with his TEN TIMES SMALLER adversary...what you guess happened? The larger side won? :lol2: You calling me loser only proves your desperation and confirmation of my assertion that you are not well-read enough on wars and the long term political goals associated with them. You can keep living in your fantasy world that you did that and this and that---In real world , does it matter?

But then again why are you bringing Pakistan into it? Topic has nothing to do with it...

Mods must take appropriate action...

Just shows your inferiority complex

If you are gonna try to act like 'you know something' and like 'you got something' then atleast use correct words. My comments , if taken as my complex because of me being a Pakistani , would reflect my superiority complex and not inferiority complex ...Atleast use the correct words , bro. :respect: