A Buddhist Can Immolate Himself Peacefully To Protest Oppression ... Is This A Proof Of Their Kamaai

[Mat Pulo Rai]

Also lot of puratan mahapursh such as sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib have repeatedly talked about mahatama budda life, refer to him as mahatma in their divans, even have divan dedicated to him as mahatama budda.

Link.

We as sikhs cannot and should not be authority on Buddhist theology, its best its left to buddhist theologist... so far whatever i read, i don't see any atheism in their philosphy-

Your wrong we do have the authority to dissect other relgions and call them false purely by the fact that they dont have a Sat Guru and follow the True Daram, it was Vaheguru who said without Sat Guru there is no Salvation, peace or true understanding of us/universe.

Thats seems to be your stock answer to everything that you dont beleive in, on this forum. Like you are the only one who can understand the context of things, and everyone else takes things out of context. What a cretin.

We dont have to believe everything we read, but we cant deny the things we hear from the source.

says the raja of nitpickers. what a hypocrite!

Satguru is saying that he is neither Hindu or Muslim. has nothing to do with Sant Jarnail Singh saying that Muslims should be true Muslims, and hindus and so on.

Let your ego go. And the notion that you have some superior intellect.

Also I have to agree with chatanga, you seem to think that your opinion on matters are always correct, and your post about people being negative, it would be perceived that way if you miss read post directed at you, which it feels you have. As for Sant Jee talking about Hindus being hindus and so on, dont try to polarise that statement, that still stands today.

Theres a reason Guru Har Gobind shaib brought up that muslim child, Muslim, from a young age to show to people its not about what religion you belong, you are still loved by Vaheguru regardless.

[N30S1NGH]

Link.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_%28Rara_Sahib_wale%29/001-050/009--Sant.Isher.Singh.%28Rara.Sahib.wale%29--Maharma.Budh.Da.Prasang.mp3

http://www.gurmatvee...a_Sahib_wale%29

It's under first folder and its 9th file from the top.

Your wrong we do have the authority to dissect other relgions and call them false purely by the fact that they dont have a Sat Guru and follow the True Daram, it was Vaheguru who said without Sat Guru there is no Salvation, peace or true understanding of us/universe.

There are plenty of discussion between bijla singh (respected member of this forum) and i on satguru contexts in gurbani and semantics around the label -satguru, please search the forum and read the debate with open mind and make up your mind...its already been debated until it reached its life cycle from both sides.

[N30S1NGH]

At this point, i feel i must repost this:

Our people(punjabi sikhs- i blame punjabiyaat for this as i come from punjabi family so i know) are soo self absorbed in themselves, that they don't come out of box and see the diversity of world. They think they are entitled and feel high sense of entitlement- choose ones (saviour/self righetous)ones from birth, every one else its manmatiya, karam khandi...!!!

It's quite unfortunate bunch of narrow minded punjabi have held on to sikhi in the closed box and anyone who wants to study sikhi gets put off by these narrow minded punjabis who have pendufied sikhi and who think their punjabi tribe are choosen ones by vahiguroo.

Puratan samparda's - nirmale, taksal (thanks to sant gurbachan singh ji khalsa bhindanwale), udhasi, nihangs have spread sikhi all of india and to all group, people from all walks of life, and these new age goons wants to limit sikhi to "bunch of arrogant self righteous supremacist" and put huge closed door on sikhi by suppressing "diversified gurmat" and scream - anti gurmat, manmat when they see something different, or when they see something which challenges them or make them and their ideology insecure.

[Only five]

Also I have to agree with chatanga, you seem to think that your opinion on matters are always correct,

I wasn't going to post, but this deserves a response.

The same people that argue against points that i present here, later are accepting them (after an authority figure tells them its correct). Prime example is about the dancing threads. A video of Sant ji comes out and he directly says not to do it. Then these people walk away with their tails between their legs. The same type of people that said Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj had immense respect for Udhasis were later trying to divert the topic because they were shown how they lied in the thread. Over and over these people are caught in their own mistakes, but still they continue with the propaganda here. The same member was biting his tongue when Sant Hari Singh said he would not associate with Daljit Singh Nirmala after his manmat acts caught on video. The list goes on from here, but i won't bore you with the facts. Since no one wants to look at the facts.

One member came on here and put all of them in their place, instead of accepting it Chatanga on the spot just makes up some non sense......lol and the other starts telling everyone what Buddhist are to accept as their beliefs and the monk is a Brahmgyani.....lol At this point all logic was thrown out the window. You might as well consult a non spiritual person at this point on this discussion. I can't take such people seriously after such comedy takes place here.

Edited

From the post above mines....anyone can tell this member is full of slander.....calling other members goons, pendufied sikhi, taliban, etc. What can be gained from such a person!!! Hes been on these sites for such a long time and he still can`t control himself. Somebody tell this veer to take a break from these forums and actually do some naam simran so he deosn`t continue his self-destructive cycle.

[N30S1NGH]

Only iron cuts another iron. Sometimes you go in the mud to fight with mud(bhasuaria,pendufied mindset)...However, what's important is to be like lotus as lotus in its nature, will stay in mud however in essence still be nirlaip from imprints of mud.

[Mat Pulo Rai]

lol and the other starts telling everyone what Buddhist are to accept as their beliefs and the monk is a Brahmgyani

Agree 100% anyone that thinks they can label Someone a Brahm Gyani is just laughable, and then says just to further the conversation i will take away the quote, which just means I still believe in the statement but am willing in the interest of discussion, not use it. Two things either he has a different meaning for the word or doesn’t understand when Guru Arjan says God picks who is to be Brahm Gyani and whoever it may be merges with Vaheguru becoming God himself. So which is it N30SINGH

There are plenty of discussion between bijla singh (respected member of this forum) and i on satguru contexts in gurbani and semantics around the label -satguru, please search the forum and read the debate with open mind and make up your mind...its already been debated until it reached its life cycle from both sides.

To honest im not interested in people opinions if they them selfs havent reached Vaheguru, as its all opinion and open to debate, as for What Gur Bani says we have all the same Soul/Mind and only through Sat Guru can we merge back with Vaheguru

gurU ijnw kw AMDulw cyly nwhI Twau ]

guroo jinaa kaa andhulaa chaelae naahee thaao |

Those chaylaas, those devotees, whose spiritual teacher is blind, shall not find their place of rest.

ibnu siqgur nwau n pweIAY ibnu nwvY ikAw suAwau ]

bin sathigur naao n paaeeai bin naavai kiaa suaao |

Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all?

Awie gieAw pCuqwvxw ijau suM\Y Gir kwau ]3]

aae gaeiaa pashuthaavanaa jio sunnjai ghar kaao |3|

People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3||

ibnu nwvY duKu dyhurI ijau klr kI BIiq ]

bin naavai dhukh dhaehuree jio kalar kee bheeth |

Without the Name, the body suffers in pain; it crumbles like a wall of sand

Again if you believe there is another, other than Sat Guru who can give Naam thats fine thats your belief, but state it so there's no miss-understanding.

From the post above mines....anyone can tell this member is full of slander.....calling other members goons, pendufied sikhi, taliban, etc. What can be gained from such a person!!!

I think baji its easy to mis-read a post as the emotions in which they have been written cannot be betrayed. In my opinion N30SINGHS heart is in the right place, saying that everyone has a right to their own doctrine and we should not judge them or belittle their Faith. If this is the case i agree and disagree, because when Guru jee called Hindus blind and Muslims half blind, people would think that gurus are just trying to make a Rift with the notion im better than you, but its bigger than that, N30SINGH God is real and there is only 1 truth, so if your doctrine doesn’t match the Truth there’s only one thing it can be called FALSE or at best partly True.

One member came on here and put all of them in their place, instead of accepting it Chatanga on the spot just makes up some non sense.

Baji im not in to praising people nor do i think i can as Chatanga may be far more of a Gur Sikh than i am, but from what I’ve read he's shown maturity in his posts, as for you, again is my opinion is hit and miss you seem to be right sometimes but are way off, by contradicting yourself and giving bad advice other times. That’s why I’ve always maintained that only speak to where your spiritual reach is, if you have none then stay quiet, as guiding someone on Sikhi without Avasta is Paap.

[N30S1NGH]

I will stick with mindset instead of personalities...lets recap this thread and for the sake of unity within sikhs lets point common things we can all agree on:

Common points which we can all agree on because they are based on facts:

1. It's not easy to burn yourself alive, you have to be very strong mentally and emotionally.

2. It's not easy to sit firmly while being burnt to ashes (most joe blow including me- move during simran when feeling slight itch on the arse), sit firmly while being burnt alive(one of highest human test) suggest mind control over matter which can be gained through intense meditation/abhyas.

3. The fact that his self immolation bought positive changes towards equality of Buddhist- state reversed of lot of unfair policies against buddhist, buddhist human right abuses fell significantly in Vietnam.

4. The fact that after his self immolation, his disciples during re-ceremation found his heart untouched by fire, unburned shows an miracle by Vahiguroo himself which still to this day serve as symbolism of self sacrifice as his heart is still found in museum

[Only five]

Baji im not in to praising people nor do i think i can as Chatanga may be far more of a Gur Sikh than i am, but from what I’ve read he's shown maturity in his posts, as for you, again is my opinion is hit and miss you seem to be right sometimes but are way off, by contradicting yourself and giving bad advice other times. That’s why I’ve always maintained that only speak to where your spiritual reach is, if you have none then stay quiet, as guiding someone on Sikhi without Avasta is Paap.

You better read the that thread again because Chatanga misquoted what i said. This is not the first time Chatanga has taken what i written and cut off certain sections of a sentence and then responded. You are new to this forum and i have been dealing with this guy for a while now. I have a good idea why he provides certain advise. As he belongs to the tribe that tells a Sikh to have many wives at one time is Gurmat (which from Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is manmat). There are other things i have noticed about him over the years, but i`m let you figure it out for yourself because this way you will appreciate it even more. Me telling you will only put you on the defensive. Also do look into those facts i told you so there is no doubt in your mind.

Altogether I am not here to please anyone. What Gurmukhs tells me I present here. If someone sees that as pendufied, then hes only slandering the original person who said it. But it`s clear now he thinks this slander is alright, which Gurbani says is wrong. Muslims try to justify killing innocent people and some try to justify slander they write toward others. We might as well give these people a palki to sit in and couple of disciples so they can expand their teachings.

[Not2Cool2Argue]

As this thread is getting too full of arguments and personal attacks. I will take the task to bring us back on topic.

There were three things raised in this topic:

whether the buddhist is a brahmgiani? I think everyone agrees he is not..and the one person who did think he was (N30S1NGH Ji) has taken back the word. And I doubt any of us is a brahmgiani so we can't know.

Is this suicide or shaheedi? Well that depends. Shaheed is an arabic word and Muslims even use it to suicide bombers.It is a synonym of martyr which means one who suffers for the sake of principle. Therefore the Buddhist is a shaheed and did not commit suicide. Whether the shaheedi is aligned with Gurmat, I don't know. Because I have even heard of people who say that we never used peaceful protests until the 1900s(Jaito da Morcha, Guru Ke Baag da Morcha, Nanakana Sahib da Morcha) and they were invented by the Sikhs of the time and were never used before in Sikhi. I guess each time calls for its own weapons, and the protests did have an effect on the British govt. And like Kaljugi said in another post, the West doesn't help anyone unless they're true victims, and certainly not if they fight back against the oppressor. So the Buddhist Monk was acting on the right strategy if he wants help from the West.

Does the Buddhist have kamaii? yes, it takes a really long time and a lot of ghall kamaii to do so much meditation that one is able to control the mind. And this amazing monk had not just controlled his mind but also his indrians so he didn't feel any pain. Whether this kamaii counts in gurmat, i don't know. In guru nanak dev ji 's time the sidhs had gotten a lot of ridhaian sidhian from controlling their mind and sat in cold water in winter and in/near fire in the summer.

But what the Buddhist Monk is Amazing like someone above said, to be able to do do much bhagti in kaljug! I get Only five's view, because we have naam simran our avatha's should have been so high, that what the Buddhist monk did should seem a paltry trick. But since we are so behind in that respect that we are awed and shocked and amazed by the monk's self control like the rest of the world.

[N30S1NGH]

Also to add to not2cool2argue point:

The fact that after his self immolation, his disciples during re-ceremation found his heart untouched by fire, unburned shows an miracle by Vahiguroo himself which still to this day serve as symbolism of self sacrifice as his heart is still found in museum.

I get Only five's view, because we have naam simran our avatha's should have been so high, that what the Buddhist monk did should seem a paltry trick. But since we are so behind in that respect that we are awed and shocked and amazed by the monk's self control like the rest of the world.

It was paltry trick if he came out of nowhere with no real jeevan but just in the path to gain ridhya sidhya..But He had sadhu tyaagi jevan started at age of 8..he started meditated at early age. People need to research more about him before just saying its paltry trick.

I will end my contribution to this thread by asking each one of you guys an question, which you don't have to answer but ask your self internally:

Had this video being of an singh self immolating himself in front of delhi parliament for injustice against sikhs? would our attitude be the same? can we confidently claim that our attitude be same as it is towards this monk? Would the doubts of him committing "suicide/coward way - hence be anti gurmat" would even cross our mind? Would the doubts of him not being enlightened would even cross our mind?.

I seriously think no matter how others wants to spin it, it all comes down to cham of the person? looks different? and its from different faith. Unfortunate sad state of affairs.