A Buddhist Can Immolate Himself Peacefully To Protest Oppression ... Is This A Proof Of Their Kamaai

[chatanga]

This is a jeewan based on being a saint warrior who through God's grace organises an effective and active action-orientated strategy to rally support, stand up for the truth and fiercely battle with oppression.

what happened after that incident is quite irrelevant even if it had some positive impact of some sort.

so 1st you say that the action needed to be effective and strategic to rally support etc, and then you say the aftermath is irrelevent. It really sounds like you dont know what you're talking about.

i will let you know anyway, if you're interested or not, the monk sacrificing himself, led to a public and international outcry, which led to the catholic govt withdrawing its harsh measures imposed on the budhists monks.

So was, his sacrifice or lets elevate ourselves to your level, his suicide worth it?

[humkire]

And to what N30 SINGH has just said, that imaginary example you just gave of a chardikela Singh self immolating simply contradicts within itself. Sikh history does not bear witness to this except perhaps of a few rare examples here and there, the reason being that the mindset and lifestyle of sant sipahi has got nothing to do with self immolating. Sikhi does not teach us to sit and die hungry by protesting.no matter what our spiritual levels be or the positive outcomes be of such an action. The Sikh spirit is found in ''sva lakh se ek lraoo, tabheh Gobind Singh naam khaoo!''. Gurujee made us add Singh to our name to remind us to live and die like lions. Do not pick and choose what I wrote but read what I wrote in its entirety earlier to understand the gist of what I typed. There is simply no justification or place for self immolation in gurmat, plain and simple and a million counter arguments will not change this fact encased in the sarbloh doors and chains of tat gurmat, go ask any true Sikh martyr residing in shaheed khand! I

[GuptUnknown]

if that question is directed at me, what happened after that incident is quite irrelevant even if it had some positive impact of some sort. Now that sounds absolutely and highly arrogant but actually it is not, because gurmat makes us think of the far better and higher outcomes of our actions once we conduct them according to Guru's sikhiya, not our manmat! Sikhi helps our minds to purvey the unlimited probabilities and possibilities that open up before us when things are done Guru's way, not our way. It makes us realise that whatever we achieved doing things our way is peanuts compared to the results had we done them Guru's way.

.Why do we have a hard time understanding that he was a Buddhist, and he stayed true to his dharm? Just a question, do you believe only Sikhs can attain Atam Gyan?

[N30S1NGH]

And to what N30 SINGH has just said, that imaginary example you just gave of a chardikela Singh self immolating simply contradicts within itself. Sikh history does not bear witness to this except perhaps of a few rare examples here and there, the reason being that the mindset and lifestyle of sant sipahi has got nothing to do with self immolating. Sikhi does not teach us to sit and die hungry by protesting.no matter what our spiritual levels be or the positive outcomes be of such an action. The Sikh spirit is found in ''sva lakh se ek lraoo, tabheh Gobind Singh naam khaoo!''. Gurujee made us add Singh to our name to remind us to live and die like lions. Do not pick and choose what I wrote but read what I wrote in its entirety earlier to understand the gist of what I typed. There is simply no justification or place for self immolation in gurmat, plain and simple and a million counter arguments will not change this fact encased in the sarbloh doors and chains of tat gurmat, go ask any true Sikh martyr residing in shaheed khand! I

What about sri guru arjan dev ji and sri guru tegh bahudar' shaheedi? Are you saying, they didn't have any control over raj of that time? If they wanted to, they can destroy oppressive regime in split second- but they showed us pratically- Tera Bhanaie Mitha Lagaie || and it was part of hakum from nirgun akaal purkh..part of big tamasha (this jagat)

Are you saying they didn't follow- sva lakh se ek lrooa, tabeh gobind singh naam khaoo.

We talk about hakum, and pre-odained destiny but we apply whenever it suit us- this monk- self immolation and hence death was pre-odained/part of hakum as everyone death is...whether you like it or not..without hakum not even one leaf on tree could move...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[humkire]

chatanga sahib, I have taken time to help you understand that this monk's actions do not conform with gurmat, but if you refuse to deliberate on what is being explained but rather choose to say ''It really sounds like you dont know what you're talking about'' then it appears you have a) made up your mind and opinion to be a die-hard defender of this monk's actions, and b) you judge those who oppose you to be retarded neanderthals, incapable of understanding either you or themselves.

This is sad because a)your first priority should be to judge everything said, done and heard according to gurmat no matter how good something or someone is, b)you should have picked up very very early on after taking khande ka pahul(if you are a rehatvaan Singh) that self immolation no matter how wondrous its benefits be, is unacceptable in Sikhi and the reasons for that and c)the manner of your talk expressed in just that little bit of your sentence I have cut and pasted is not how Sikhs should talk to each other. We have in the middle of the worst argument demonstrate that we are married to humility in our words, thoughts and actions. This is the first pauree in Sikhi. We cannot call ourselves Sikhs if we talk to each other the way manmukhs talk to each other, even if we are right. May Waheguru bless you with humility especially when you talk to others older to you and may you be blessed with a razor sharp bibek buddhi in your gurmat soch-vichar.

[JSinghnz]

What about sri guru arjan dev ji and sri guru tegh bahudar' shaheedi? Are you saying, they didn't have any control over raj of that time? If they wanted to, they can destroy oppressive regime in split second- but they showed us pratically- Tera Bhanaie Mitha Lagaie || and it was part of hakum from nirgun akaal purkh..part of big tamasha (this jagat)

Are you saying they didn't follow- sva lakh se ek lrooa, tabeh gobind singh naam khaoo.

We talk about hakum, and pre-odained destiny but we apply whenever it suit us- this monk- self immolation and hence death was pre-odained/part of hakum as everyone death is...whether you like it or not..without hakum not even one leaf on tree could move...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Sikhism , we go about taking action against the oppressors and not go about self immolating ourselves.

You are too confused to understand the basics of Sikhism.

[JSinghnz]

Off course not its always been to do with cham. I knew it all along:

Had this video being of an singh with sarbloh bibek/dummala with aad chand who can do naam simran like you do in smagam self immolating himself/ died out of hunger strike in front of delhi parliament for injustice against sikhs then it would have been counted and his soul would have received with loads of naam jhapiya and soul would be allowed in gurmukh/ tat gurmat - shaheedi khand made out of sarbloh doors and chains to prevent any patit/manmatiya like this monk to even think about entering into this mahan tat gurmat - shaheedi khand.

Wow what a load off my shoulders..

Another example of your confused mind set and lack of understanding about the basics of Sikhism

God sends us and we take birth. God calls us back and we die.

Guru Granth Sahib 1239

[N30S1NGH]

In the words of sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale- Gurmat is Anadi- "Parkash Nuo Koi Khes Di Bhand Ch Nahi Ban Sakhda"

Enjoy the attached - audio.

Anand Mangal..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gurmat is anadi.mp3

[Only five]

Some people just don't quit twisting others words. Humkire has kept it straight with these members and they continue to twist his words........truly sad, they can't discuss honestly.

And if someone wants to understand what Hukam is, then listen to Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Maharaj katha on Hukam. What is being described to you here is like sitting at a chinese restuarant and trying to pick the vegatarian dishes over the meat dishes.......only the creator knows what is Hukam :biggrin2:

[humkire]

''.Why do we have a hard time understanding that he was a Buddhist, and he stayed true to his dharm? Just a question, do you believe only Sikhs can attain Atam Gyan?'' GuptUnknown that was your question.

Your question is irrelevant! as silly as my reply sounds because what you asked is not the issue at hand. If you roll back on this thread, it is about a question whether self suicide is considered a sign of kamai etc, not whether anyone considers, or has difficulty in understanding him to be a buddhist! .........and 'staying true to his dharma' takes a homogenous view of Buddhism which is simply not correct if you are familiar with either the varying interpretations of Buddhism and the various groups of Buddhists firecely opposed to each other for reasons more than one! There are plenty of people within that tribe itself who have an issue as to what really constitutes true buddhist dharma, before we even venture to detail SGGS's take on what should constitute true Buddhist dharma for which you could read up in Parasprasna by Bhai Kapur Singh. This is like opening a hornet's nest in theological terms which would eventually result in being bitten till you realise that the REAL Buddhist dharma is actually Sikhi in action. Ill leave you to unravel all of that within your mind unless you are a simple person happy and content to accept the status quo of other faiths and not question their real import as our Guru Sahibaans have done in SGGS.

As to your supplementary question, Atam Gyan is a gift of Waheguru through Gurprasad, according to the express pleasure of His Supreme Holiness.