~ Humbleness And Wearing Jewelry~

[MokhamSingh]

Thank you Khalsa Ji for providing these photos but please be aware that these portraits are artist impressions where ornaments have been added by the artists.

In some cases Sants may have worn the chola given to them by a shardaloo in order to satisfy their sharda.

Khalsa Ji I hear what you are saying regarding the wearing of jewellery but we must also remember that there are other things that one can be attached to such as computers , tv's , other creature comforts etc....

The only true way to understand someone's avastha is to spend time with them.

"Never judge a book by it's cover".........

[TuhadaDaas]

n30 singh, just suppose what are saying is true that these sants did wear jewellery, well did they ever talk about the fact they were wearing it, why etc? if these are simply the conlcusions you have drawn from just seeing them wearing jewellery, then they are simply that, your own conclusions. Unless you have any quotes from the sants you have mentioned we have no reason to believe that they agree with your reasoning, simply because some pictures show them wearing something.

You obviously missed the point of this whole thread...ah its ok..i tried from my end.....loads of mahapursh tried too show sikhi isn't black and white but those who are stuck at sharia , will be stuck at shariat because they idiolize it and dance around it instead of looking at the actual syllabus of sikhi and work towards passing the exams...god forbid i hope i m wrong but it appears by looking at current state, they won't even spare guru sahiban if guru sahib gives them sargun saroop darshan in- anything but in dress in sarbloh, they themselves declare their own guru sahib - tankhaiya, manmatiya, kacha pilla dhilla singh etc etc..not that they mean anything bad but thats what idiolizing an certain perception and dancing around it does to people.

For the record- i m not against sarbloh or sarbloh bibek before someone pass fatwa against me, i m not sarbloh bibeki but i do wear sarbloh kara.

By the same token there are some sikhs who it would seem would call Guru Sahib kattar, superior fanatic for giving any hukam which does not fit in their hippy happy world!

will be stuck at shariat because they idiolize it and dance around it instead of looking at the actual syllabus of sikhi and work towards passing the exams

You see the problem with this approach is that it assumes that one actually knows something or has the ability to 'work towards passing the exams'. The fact is none of us know anything, we have no giaan and we have no way to even try to comprehend what Gurmat is. All we can do is in very childlike form attempt to follow everything our master tells us to do (even this we can't do). Anything else, any thoughts any reasoning any philosophical (fokat) analysis of our guru is as a matter of fact our ego.

Lets have a look at a sakhi demonstrating the fruit of childlike innocence. Bear this in mind, no one ever has and ever will reach Vaheguru through any action of their own. Union will happen when Guru Sahib gets pleased with us. This can only be achieved through earnestly attempting to do everything he tells us to do. And when we do this there will be nothing left out as his hukam is perfect and all encompassing.

Bhai Bela Ji was a Gursikh during the times of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He came to Guru Ji and asked if he could stay at Anandpur Sahib. Guru Ji consented so long as Bhai Bela agreed to partake in Seva. He was asked what form of Seva he wished to partake in, such as, langar seva, recite Bani or join the Guru’s army and fight in the battlefield. Bhai Bela replied that he could not cook, read Gurbani or knew how to use shashtars. Thus Guru Ji assigned Bhai Bela Ji the duty of looking after the horses and their stables. At the same time Bhai Bela Ji would be taught Gurbani by Guru Ji.

Guru Ji started by teaching Bhai Bela Ji one line of the JapJi Sahib per day. Bhai Bela Ji would spend his whole day, whilst fulfilling his daily chores, repeating that same line. The following morning he would recite it back to Guru Ji to make sure that he had memorised it correctly, and thus he could progress and go on to learn the next line.

One day, Bhai Bela Ji came to Guru Ji ready for his next lesson. However Guru Ji was busy and was preparing to go out. Just as Guru Ji was about to leave, Bhai Bela Ji got in the way saying, “Guru Ji, I am ready for my next lesson. I want to learn the next line of JapJi Sahib.” Guru Gobind Singh Ji replied, “Bhai Bela, na vakhat veecharai naa veyla” meaning, “Bhai Bela, you are not considering the circumstances I am in; I am busy and must go out.”

Yet Bhai Bela Ji was so innocent and obedient, that he understood Guru Ji’s comment to be the next line of the JapJi Sahib and spent his whole day practising the phrase. When the other Sevadaars heard Bhai Bela Ji, they started laughing and began mocking him. But Bhai Bela Ji ignored them and continued reciting the phrase, eager to learn it well so that he could please Guru Ji the next morning by reciting it correctly.

The following morning when Bhai Bela Ji went to meet Guru Ji, the rest of the Sevadaars had gathered there as well. They wanted to see Guru Ji get angry with Bhai Bela Ji for incorrectly reciting the JapJi Sahib. However, when Bhai Bela Ji recited the line “Bhai Bela, na vakhat veecharai naa veyla,” Guru Ji instead got up and embraced Bhai Bela Ji.

Guru Ji said, “this is what a true Sikh is. He does not allow his own intelligence to get in the way of his Guru’s words. He believes his Guru’s Bachan to be 100% true and does not consider his own intellect to be above that of his Guru’s.”

Too often we judge ourselves to be cleverer and more knowledgeable than our Guru. Bhai Bela Ji sacrificed himself entirely to the Guru’s words. He was so innocent, subservient and obedient that he placed his faith entirely in the Guru’s Bachan, forsaking his own mind and intellect.

May Guru Ji bless us with such pyaar, sharda and faith to forever live according to His Hukam, which is conveyed to us through His Shabad.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

www.ikonkaar.blogspot.com

[GuptUnknown]

This topic is irrelevant imo. Sikhs should not wear jewellry period per Bhai Daya Singh ji. We cannot compare ourselves to Mahapursh that wore jewels etc, because they were Braham Gyani's. They could have lay in bed sleeping 24/7, or killed 100 people and it wouldnt make a difference. I dont think any of us can claim that avasta so we should listen to Bhai Daya Singh ji. Sorry if i am incoherent , typing from phone. Phul chuk maaf

[singhgsingh]

How in the world can we accept wearing Jewellery as Gurmat. We cannot conform Gurmat to our needs, Gurmat is Rigid. There is no Two sides to Gurmat, that statement is ridiculous.

I quote Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Here: ( I translated the following from Gurmat Rehat Maryada)

ਸਹਜਿ ਸੰਤੋਖਿ ਸੀਗਾਰੀਆ ਮਿਠਾ ਬੋਲਣੀ ॥

They should not wear any jewelry; they should make Truth and Contentment their jewelry.

ਭਰਤਾ ਕਹੈ ਸੁ ਮਾਨੀਐ ਏਹੁ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ਬਣਾਇ ਰੀ ॥

Their jewelry is listening to what their husband says and nothing else. Make your virtues your jewelry, do not wear other jewelry. Those that wear very shiny cloths their minds do not remain good, they get filled with vikaars (kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hunkar). Guru Jee has not given us permission to wear red cloths. Our cloths should be plain and simple and our food should be plain and simple. Guru Jee says

ਮਨੁ ਮੋਤੀ ਜੇ ਗਹਣਾ ਹੋਵੈ

And

ਨਿਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਖਵਣੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਮਣੀਆ ਮੰਤੁ ॥ ਏ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਭੈਣੇ ਵੇਸ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਂ ਵਸਿ ਆਵੀ ਕੰਤੁ ॥੧੨੭॥

Keep humility, be patient never get angry at others, always speak sweetly. These three virtues always have them and the fourth one is to stay in fear of your husband. Always consider your husband to be with you at all times. If he is gone far away do not indulge in vikaars (kam krodh lobh moh hunkar).

[N30S1NGH]

n30 singh, just suppose what are saying is true that these sants did wear jewellery, well did they ever talk about the fact they were wearing it, why etc? if these are simply the conlcusions you have drawn from just seeing them wearing jewellery, then they are simply that, your own conclusions. Unless you have any quotes from the sants you have mentioned we have no reason to believe that they agree with your reasoning, simply because some pictures show them wearing something. You see the problem with this approach is that it assumes that one actually knows something or has the ability to 'work towards passing the exams'. The fact is none of us know anything, we have no giaan and we have no way to even try to comprehend what Gurmat is. All we can do is in very childlike form attempt to follow everything our master tells us to do (even this we can't do). Anything else, any thoughts any reasoning any philosophical (fokat) analysis of our guru is as a matter of fact our ego.

Are you telling me that khalsa raj jog/sikh royalty was some paper concept on draft? Are you denying centuries of sikh royality during/after guru sahib time up to singh sabha.?

i have news for you, sikhi existed before singh sabha and bhausaria panth movement (bunch of ultra right wingers who didn't even spare sri guru granth sahib ji because of their insecurity). I have given you partakh examples of sikh royality. Having dastar adorned with jewelry, having jewelry mala/har, or having golden tegh are all nishani of khalsa raj jog sikh royality. This has nothing to do with personal ego of someone or having less or more humbleness.

It's not fault of sikh royalty if bunch of punjabi sikh women start wearing jewelry for superficial reason than to represent sikh royality.

Wearing jewelry for superfical reason should be targetted not wearing jewelry to represent sikh royalty.

There is no provisioning or automatic rule in maryada which says: wearing jewelry for sikh royalty or not should be criteria for someone to judge if that person is humble, gurmukh, gursikh or not.

We should be targetting why jewelry is worn not just k nee je rk reaction sikh royality is bad. If its worn out of superfical reason, off course its bad but if its worn to represent sikh royality, how's that bad?

Rehitnamas above is targetting individual attachment to materialistic things, its reasoning we should be exploring not just kn ee j erk reaction its bad, its anti-gurmat.If i am wearing jewelry as rightly said by bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi to represent sikh royality *NOT* myself, hows that bad?

As i said earlier, Raj Jog(Sikh Royality) and Bairaag/Tyaag are two sides of gurmat coin always co existed whether you like it or not..both sides of coin have rehit nama from bhai dya singh ji and other prem sumarag granth. If you want to ignore one side and idiolize other thats up to you. Both are acceptable and parvan in Gurmat.

I never discouraged the one side of coin..i just merely posted other side of gurmat coin and whole hell broke loose...so insecurity lies on other side, not here.

i m one of them who don't wear jewelry and damn proud to be..ironically despite of being two opposite side of spectrum, i actually agree with bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi minus the monkey comment, his 5 minute speech on all this bickering and badh vedhaad is spot on..why? its targetting rigid thinking preconceived notions that just because you were jewelry and represent sikh royalty that you are not humble.

I never wanted to show those pictures, i was asked to provide reference, so i did...i am convinced that both side of gurmat coin have co-existed from guru's time until now and will be always and its parvan in Gurmat.

It's usually ultra right wingers/ultra left wingers from both sides will miss the whole purpose of bairaagi/tyaagi khalsa and sikh royality- raj jog (Gurmukh maya vich udasi) and dance around the issue instead of understanding two sides of gurmat coin.

Whole point of this thread was to point out fallacies in rigid thinking/preconceived notions people have against those who have to represent sikh royality as video provided by bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi and provide understanding with examples how two side of gurmat coin have existed in guru's time, puratan rehitnamas/granths and in history, modern times.

[GuptUnknown]

Are you telling me that khalsa raj jog/sikh royalty was some paper concept on draft? Are you denying centuries of sikh royality during/after guru sahib time up to singh sabha.?

i have news for you, sikhi existed before singh sabha and bhausaria panth movement (bunch of ultra right wingers who didn't even spare sri guru granth sahib ji because of their insecurity). I have given you partakh examples of sikh royality. Having dastar adorned with jewelry, having jewelry mala/har, or having golden tegh are all nishani of khalsa raj jog sikh royality. This has nothing to do with personal ego of someone or having less or more humbleness.

It's not fault of sikh royalty if bunch of punjabi sikh women start wearing jewelry for superficial reason than to represent sikh royality.

Wearing jewelry for superfical reason should be targetted not wearing jewelry to represent sikh royalty.

There is no provisioning or automatic rule in maryada which says: wearing jewelry for sikh royalty or not should be criteria for someone to judge if that person is humble, gurmukh, gursikh or not.

We should be targetting why jewelry is worn not just k nee je rk reaction sikh royality is bad. If its worn out of superfical reason, off course its bad but if its worn to represent sikh royality, how's that bad?

Rehitnamas above is targetting individual attachment to materialistic things, its reasoning we should be exploring not just kn ee j erk reaction its bad, its anti-gurmat.If i am wearing jewelry as rightly said by bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi to represent sikh royality *NOT* myself, hows that bad?

As i said earlier, Raj Jog(Sikh Royality) and Bairaag/Tyaag are two sides of gurmat coin always co existed whether you like it or not..both sides of coin have rehit nama from bhai dya singh ji and other prem sumarag granth. If you want to ignore one side and idiolize other thats up to you. Both are acceptable and parvan in Gurmat.

I never discouraged the one side of coin..i just merely posted other side of gurmat coin and whole hell broke loose...so insecurity lies on other side, not here.

i m one of them who don't wear jewelry and damn proud to be..ironically despite of being two opposite side of spectrum, i actually agree with bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi minus the monkey comment, his 5 minute speech on all this bickering and badh vedhaad is spot on..why? its targetting rigid thinking preconceived notions that just because you were jewelry and represent sikh royalty that you are not humble.

I never wanted to show those pictures, i was asked to provide reference, so i did...i am convinced that both side of gurmat coin have co-existed from guru's time until now and will be always and its parvan in Gurmat.

It's usually ultra right wingers/ultra left wingers from both sides will miss the whole purpose of bairaagi/tyaagi khalsa and sikh royality- raj jog (Gurmukh maya vich udasi), dance around the issue instead of understanding two sides of gurmat coin.

Whole point of this thread was to point out fallacies in rigid thinking/preconceived notions people have against those who have to represent sikh royality as video provided by bhai sahib harbhajan singh jogi and provide understanding with examples how two side of gurmat coin have existed in guru's time, puratan rehitnamas/granths and in history, modern times.

Off topic, but question Veerji , what are your thoughts on Dr Trilochans Singhs book on Bhai Harbhajan Yogi?

[N30S1NGH]

I haven't read it veer. Is it available online? How can I get it?

[GuptUnknown]

I haven't read it veer. Is it available online? How can I get it?

.

Yes it is here, will link it . Im sure you know Dr Trilochan Singh ji, he has written many books. Please read it with an open mind, and not just take it as criticism/praise of 3HO.

http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/sikhism_and_tantric_yoga.pdf

[singher23]

I have a quick question...what are your guys' views on Harbhajan Singh? I think we all have a slightly negative view on 3HO, but what about Yogi Bhajan specifically? I know Akal Takht has honored him

[Only five]

The big bad wolf, huffed and puffed and huffed and puffed, but the Hukam still remains to stay the same. Everyone is subject to Hukam. If we all read Sri Japji Sahib da paath with more care, in the first 3 pauris, we would be liberated. No one is beyond his Hukam. Rehat is Hukam. Everyone takes Amrit from the first Punj Pyare, whether that be today or in the 19 century because what those PUnj Pyare said will always hold true. Truth doesn't have an end or beginning, it is eternal and we Sikhs bow to this truth.

Many wolves huff and puff all their life and they don't go anywhere, instead they get you stuck in the huffing and puffing. Stick to Hukam and these wolves can't blow your house (stick your mind and body in the mud of maya) down.

REHAT

surmwidk iSMgwr nihN nihN pr qrunI sMig

suramaadhik shi(n)gaar nehi nehi par tharunee sa(n)gi

Do not wear make-up or jewellery. Do not commit adultery.

Rehatnama Bhai Daya Singh Jee

:biggrin2: