No Gurdwara Without Clearance From Akal Takht

[N30S1NGH]

Completely Unenforceable.

Completely agree..thats why we need Sikh Channel Media owned, run by sri akaal takth sahib more than directions/hakumnamas poping out right left and center..atleast get the basic right than issue hakumnamas no worries.. Once you have media, you have control on public opinion, most of public opnion is driven by media...its all about bringing awareness among public sikh sangat, if sangat start boycotting an gurdwara ran by heretics or pseduo committes, committe walas will feel pinch as there won't be revenue..Hence all of sudden, these committe walas will be running/scrambiling through to implementing those changes..!!!!!!!

[Pyara]

If there are people out there that consider this to be too weak and want strong enforcement, then please dont harass organisations like the Sikh Council. There is nothing stopping you from just going out there and doing it yourself. However, dont be surprised if you are labelled as extremists and the majority of the community turns its back on you and with criminal records and prison sentences to look forward to.

Some interesting and constructive points in your whole post, but surly there should be a standardised accepted platform of leadership in the UK to implement and promote best practice in the form of the directives from Akal Takht Sahib and in my view who better than the Sikh Council. Do we then let small splinter groups of Sikhs go around enforcing or implementing the directives? Because as dangerous as it is, that's what is likely to happen!

[fightingsingh]

Some interesting and constructive points in your whole post, but surly there should be a standardised accepted platform of leadership in the UK to implement and promote best practice in the form of the directives from Akal Takht Sahib and in my view who better than the Sikh Council. Do we then let small splinter groups of Sikhs go around enforcing or implementing the directives? Because as dangerous as it is, that's what is likely to happen!

Its very hard to enforce like I said. For the Sikh Council to enforce it, it will basically result in the collapse of the Sikh Council.

You basically need a separate body to do it if you really think that it is necessary. However, the body should reflect the views of Akal Takhat Sahib rather than just say the Taksal, for example. It needs to be more diverse in representation regarding its membership jathe as opposed to for example the current satkar commitee. Representation of only the Akal Takhat Sahib will carry much more clout and respect in our community than say a small splinter group led by a baba or a single jatha.

Its far too easy to dimiss those as just being small violent and extremist fringes that are trying to bring Sikhi back into the dark ages (the opinion of many moderates), hence, if the groups rep only the Akal Takhat Sahib it is much harder to make that allegation.The focus should be on raising awareness and soft enforcement of Akal Takhat Maryada and Akal Takhat hukamnamas via application of peaceful pressure (eg letters), media exposure, name and shame and boycotting of non-compliants. Where appropriate, peaceful protests can be used, however, we dont have a great track record of peaceful protests as they usually turn violent because some of our guys get provoked and cant control themselves. The subsequent violence then totally undermines the positive message behind the protest. Thats why I think protesting isnt always a great idea unless we can force ourselves to be very disciplined and maintain a civilised and peaceful image.

As a long term strategy, and something that the Sikh Council could certainly do is to work with the government and try to get laws passed which protect Sikh rights, including certain conditions which prevent beadbi in gurdwaras on account of their inflammatory nature and potential for causing law and order problems.

Like someone mentioned above, the strongest weapon we have is public opinion so our best tool for changing that is our UK based Sikh channels and the internet so we should use those to our fullest advantage and watch the changes take place slowly and naturally.

[panthicunity]

people reading this thread , lets make it actionable by dropping any castist surnames that we have and just use singhs and kaurs

If someone asks what caste are you , we should respond - "I am a sikh and therefore have no caste, but our ancestors before converting came from lowest of low castes"

Neeche ander neech jaat | Neeche hun at neech ||

nanak tin ke sang sath vadiyan syo kya ress ||

Also

Hamri jat satguru pat satguru ||

Castism is very repulsive , anyone who takes pride in his caste comes across as an Indian version of a redneck to me.

[JSinghnz]

people reading this thread , lets make it actionable by dropping any castist surnames that we have and just use singhs and kaurs

If someone asks what caste are you , we should respond - "I am a sikh and therefore have no caste, but our ancestors before converting came from lowest of low castes"

Neeche ander neech jaat | Neeche hun at neech ||

nanak tin ke sang sath vadiyan syo kya ress ||

Also

Hamri jat satguru pat satguru ||

Castism is very repulsive , anyone who takes pride in his caste comes across as an Indian version of a redneck to me.

Very well said. We need to tell the so called Sikhs who use their castes that it is repulsive.

[JSinghnz]

The sad state of affairs amongst Sikhs today is that we are let down badly by our leaders, committees, councils etc.

whose main motive is self gain and no intentions to promote the essence of Sikhism. Looking at the example in hand,

Sikh organisations all over the world should have welcomed this as a great step forward for the Sikh nation.

But what do we hear?, This cannot be done and shockingly threats of prison sentences to look forward too.

SHAMELESSNESS AT ITS WORST.

[UKLondonSikh]

This is brilliant that the SGPC are finally latching on to one of the biggest problems we face as a Panth.

Youth in the Diaspora are the key to this taking place. Similarly, every area in which Gurdware would be merged, we would have to make the existing pardhaans of the various divisive committee's as joint heads of the newly merged Gurdwara (which would be named after the locality alone). But we have to handle our approach with pyaar rather than the Swindon sledgehammer approach.

If we can pull this off in the UK first, then Canada, the rest of the Diaspora and then finally Punjab will follow i'm sure.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66391-mergers-so-that-only-1-gurdwara-per-local-area/

[Pyara]

"We will not allow construction of a gurdwara on 'shamlat' (government) land or on land that is in the name of the village panchayat or is the property of any trust or committee. The land must be transferred in the name of Guru Granth Sahib for building a shrine," Giani Gurbachan Singh made it clear after deliberating on the issue with his fellow priests.

What's the equivalent of Guru Granth Sahib Ji owning a building in the UK? As far as I know in the UK this would not be possible, so I assume that's why our elders set Gurdwaras up as the trusts, charities etc in order to safeguard the Sangat's property.

Interesting to check the property deeds of your local Gurdwara(s) and see who owns them. Is it a group of trustees or an individual? This is very important to know particularly if you are contributing your daswand to a Gurdwara, at the end of the day you may simply be building an individuals property portfolio as the Gurdwara building is not Sangat owned.

You can see who owns your Gurdwara building/assets by requesting the property deeds on the link below

http://www.landregistryservices.com/?gclid=CJXUjqPRnbECFRIjfAodsDMLeQ

[Cisco_Singh]

They wont be able to enforce this... wha about the Gurdwaras in Punjab that dnt bear allegiance to SGPC like the Nihang controlled Gudwaras who fly the puratan blue Nishan sahibs and have allegiance to Budha Dal etc...

Also World Gatka Day..is a bit pointless...we already have Holla Mohalla for the celebration of Sikh Combat arts and Horsemanship, archery etc... Not to mention Gatka isnt a martial art anyway...

Hazur Sahib is another great example of where puratan maryada exists..purely because SGPC havent been able to tarnish it a they no cotrol over Hazur Sahib due it's presence in Maharastra state...

So basically it comes down to.. SGPC can say what they want want....they dont actually have any legal authority to enforce anything they say... Theres too much divisions in the panth for an uniform organisation to be taken seriously..especally when SGPC themselves are too closely linked to Badal sarkar and punjab/indian govenrment they dont represent the true Independant Sikh viewpoint and interests.