Facts & Figures About Punjab Today

[acsap]

I agree with Johnny! If you are in the Karnal area of Haryana, you can just look at the crops in two adjacent fields, and by examining the crops you can tell if the land is being cultivated by a Sikh or a Haryanvi (sikh cultivator will have better crop). I don't want to stereotype people (I know I have already done that), I am sure there are some bad Sikh farmers and some good Haryanvi farmers (however that is mostly exceptions).

[zoltansingh]

Zultan Singh Jee, Punjab has Ludhiana, Amritsar, Jalandar, Patiala as major cities and these cities have grown based on the hard work of Punjabis. Haryana does not have cities of this magnitude. It only has Gurgaon which is a direct consequence of foreign companies investing in the area. Haryanvis have nothing that they can call their own. It's best areas are the Punjabi speaking areas of Northern Haryana which was largely settled by Punjabi refugees after 1947. Those are Punjabi people, I don't see why you are giving Haryanvis the credit for their success. Punjab has been demanding for decades that Haryana transfer those areas back to Punjab where they belong.

The flyovers are necessary for today's Punjab. As more and more people are buying cars, the traffic is getting unbearable. The flyovers are easing the traffic congestion. Can't say the same for Haryana since Haryanvis(non Punjabi ones) don't have as much cars as Punjabis so they don't feel flyovers as necessary yet. The Punjabis of Haryana are mostly children of people who came from west Punjab(pakistan). Those people were a very industrious people who had made Sandalbar into the most productive area in pre partition India. No wonder they have made a success where every they settled. Go to UP, Uttarakhand, MP, Rajasthan and see how successful the Punjabis are in those areas. They are more successful than the locals(non Punjabis). I fail to understand why you give Haryanvis the credit for the success of Punjabis settled in northern Haryana.

Why not give them credit? Again I reiterate cross the border from Fatehabad to say Mansa and head on toward Abohar and you can see which area has had better governance. There are Sikhs on either side yet the Haryana side has better infrastructure? Why? The locals did not build it themselves, it has been built and maintained by the state sarkar.

They have excellent bypass roads in Haryana which help reduce congestion and avoid the need for ugly flyovers.

There are Punjabis in areas of UP who are prosperous but the infrastructure is poor. Thats a state sarkar issue right?

A few years ago I went by road to Pakistan and again the infrastructure on the Pak side of Punjab is very poor. That again is the fault of the state sarkar. They had a head start on east Punjab but have failed to develop or maintain what was superior infrastructure (at the time of partition). Besides the motorway that the North Koreans built in exchange for nuclear know-how they have nothing.

[Jonny101]

Why not give them credit? Again I reiterate cross the border from Fatehabad to say Mansa and head on toward Abohar and you can see which area has had better governance. There are Sikhs on either side yet the Haryana side has better infrastructure? Why? The locals did not build it themselves, it has been built and maintained by the state sarkar.

They have excellent bypass roads in Haryana which help reduce congestion and avoid the need for ugly flyovers.

There are Punjabis in areas of UP who are prosperous but the infrastructure is poor. Thats a state sarkar issue right?

A few years ago I went by road to Pakistan and again the infrastructure on the Pak side of Punjab is very poor. That again is the fault of the state sarkar. They had a head start on east Punjab but have failed to develop or maintain what was superior infrastructure (at the time of partition). Besides the motorway that the North Koreans built in exchange for nuclear know-how they have nothing.

If you want to compare then don't compare the best of Haryana to the worst of Punjab as your reference point. Leaving aside Gurgaon, how does northern Haryana compare with Ludhiana, Amritsar, Jalandhar or Patiala? not much of a comparison to be honest because Punjab outshines that which you so boast of. Now coming to Southern Punjab which is our backward area, if you must compare it then compare it with Southern Haryana which in comparison is much more backward. So even our backward area beats Haryana's backward areas.

Since you think Haryana is so successful without acknowledging the obvious reasons why, say if Haryana(and it's population) were located in another part of India away from Delhi, would Haryana still be progressing at the rate it is today??? NO! Haryana progressing is almost just by sheer good luck because of being located in the right place at the right time i.e. near New Delhi. Look at Punjab, which is a border state which has been on the front line of all the Indo Pak wars. Has seen militancy, state sponsored terrorism and as a result no foreign company wants to invest in Punjab. Despite all these setbacks Punjab has progressed on the sheer handwork and industrious spirit of Punjabis.

[zoltansingh]

If you want to compare then don't compare the best of Haryana to the worst of Punjab as your reference point. Leaving aside Gurgaon, how does northern Haryana compare with Ludhiana, Amritsar, Jalandhar or Patiala? not much of a comparison to be honest because Punjab outshines that which you so boast of. Now coming to Southern Punjab which is our backward area, if you must compare it then compare it with Southern Haryana which in comparison is much more backward. So even our backward area beats Haryana's backward areas.

Since you think Haryana is so successful without acknowledging the obvious reasons why, say if Haryana(and it's population) were located in another part of India away from Delhi, would Haryana still be progressing at the rate it is today??? NO! Haryana progressing is almost just by sheer good luck because of being located in the right place at the right time i.e. near New Delhi. Look at Punjab, which is a border state which has been on the front line of all the Indo Pak wars. Has seen militancy, state sponsored terrorism and as a result no foreign company wants to invest in Punjab. Despite all these setbacks Punjab has progressed on the sheer handwork and industrious spirit of Punjabis.

Stop moving the goalposts. Also you need to compare like with like, areas such as Hissar and areas of southern Punjab were in a similar state in the 1960s so why is there a large disparity now?

Not long back you wrote:

Other than Gurgaon, the rest of Haryana is so backward that it is like stepping back a 100 years.

This theory was debunked, now you do not want northern Haryana compared with southern Punjab? So Gurgaon aside is the rest of Haryana backward or not? Provide an evidence base to back up your views and stick to your views instead of meandering like a seasonal rivulet. I have travelled extensively in both states rather than using the journey from Delhi Aiport to Jalandhar as a basis to pass opinion. You do not see much of the interior travelling on NH1.

Northern Haryana has benefitted from good governence. If development was based solely on hard working people then Punjabi areas of UP would also have half decent infrastructure. Southern Punjab has hard working people but no infrastructure to match, why is this? Ludhiana has industry but your average pindoo farmer in Ludhiana district is not economically better off than farmers from northern Haryana. Last year I travelled in Gurdaspur and Amritsar and there are plenty of backward pind in these districts.

[proactive]

Jommy101 is right. You are comparing a state that has been the beneficiary of it's location in relation to Delhi and whose main city Gurgaon has benefitted from the spillover of the development of Delhi.

You said tha roads are better in Haryana than in Punjab. Could that be because the roads of Punjab are travelled over by the 3.8 Million vehicles in 2005 and Haryana's road only have 2.8 mollion motor vehicles? These figures are from the statistical abstracts for both states.

If you compare Mansa district with Fatehabad district. The comparisons are-

==============Total length of roads====Road per 1 lakh population===== Roads per 100 sq km of area===

Mansa---------------- 2094km-------------------- 263---------------------------------------------- 96

Fatehabad----------- 1531km ------------------- 163 --------------------------------------------- 60

[UKLondonSikh]

ITL = Which other states in India have the centre controlling their rivers and hydrel power?

UK = All states are subject to the same federal rules but it's pretty transparent how Hindu states surrounding Punjab get a better slice of the bargain.

ITL = How much monetary investment is taking place in Punjab in comparison with other states?

UK = If my memory serves me correct, Punjab was pulling in 2% whereas Haryana was pulling in 23% (due to the strategic advantage of proximity to Delhi as well as multi-national organisations preferring to invest in a part of India that they are sure will always remain a part of India and which has been more politically stable than Punjab since 1980).

ITL = Are the average Punjabi's being taxed at a higher rates when compared to other states?

UK = Federal taxes are the same throughout India but individual states do have the right to tax (for example only) local alcohol sales at a higher rate in one state than another, as far as I understand. The Anandpur Sahib Resolution was bang on correct in outling discrimination from Indira which affected Punjab. Nowadays, many states actually support the main thrust of the Anandpur Sahib resolution which was calling merely for a greater degree of federalism within India. India cooked this into Khalistan to arouse Hindutva support for herself. But times have changed and rather than focussing on Khalistan as a first objective, the waiving of Punjab's state debts incurred between 1980-1997 should be focussed along with implementation of most of the Anandpur Sahib resolution.

Shamshere = Or it could be the fact that the youth are getting lazier and people are spending beyond their means. Also Punjab is one of the most alcoholic states not just in India but the world.

UK = I totally agree with you that the above factors certainly play a big part and we must address those issues.

Shamshere = You seem to blame everything on the government and Hindus.

UK = Previous Congress governments especially under Indira+Rajiv had an undeniably big hand behind the problems today. I don't think anybody can much blame the 800million or so innocent poor Hindu's who try to feed themselves on 20 rupees a day.

Shamshere = It's just like the blacks who keep on going on about slavery and use it as an excuse to explain their situation.

UK = Slavery is the root cause of virtually all the problems within Disapora African origin communities. Your logic as outlined in the above sentence would lead us to believe that India's Dalits are responsible for their own misery and problems today - which we all know not to be true.

Shamshere = Sikhs in Punjab need to sort themselves out. Outsiders don't want to invest in Punjab due to the threat of militancy, even though it is small.

UK = Totally agreed

Shamshere = Yet you are always going on about Khalistan and militancy It seems like you want your cake and you want to eat it.

UK = Totally agreed, naaray for Khalistan are hurting us economically and that's an undeniable fact.

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Jonny Paji and Zoltan Paji i think both your points are not totally mutually exclsuive and in places both of you are correct.

Jonny Paji - the Sikh work ethic (prior to the drugs+sharaab generation) was famous throughout India and clearly seen outside of Punjab in Sri Ganganagar, western UP and areas of Sikh concentration within Haryana.

However, in the last 10 years as FDI into India has picked up markedly, I definitely feel (and the latest 2012 figures would confirm that) Haryana has overtaken Punjab by a certain margin now. Proximity to Delhi, better governance of Haryana as a flagship Congress state under Bhupinder Singh Hooda, less state indebtedness and a focus on not concentrating solely on agriculture are all part of this. There's nothing we can do about Haryana's good fortune whilst Punjab labours under state debts that were run up to pay Police that committed human rights abuses upon Sikhs. All we can do is play our own part in aiding development, education and a strong work ethic in Punjab and the rest will fall into place of its own accord (provided alcohol+drugs+foeticide can also be stopped). As you rightly say, the Haryana Jatts are worse for female infanticide than even Punjab ... so let them take those titles and let's concentrate on getting our own house in order first.