Jump to content

Recommended Posts

i understand the concept of the individual struggle but thats exactly what it is individual man made society pressues me to have top gadgets, top car etc but its guru who tells us where the real value is!

i get each situation is different but we should be comparing ourselves to people in africa as comparing yourselves to rich people will only lead to greed and unhappiness

i think what budda meant is that goreh get confused when they see some singhs in dastaar and others in patkeh s the fght that we are trying to fight is one you are inadvertently fighting against. i find its much harder as a keshdhari sikh then an amritdhari, moneh get away with it because they dont have any influence really on our outside image, but keshdhari do and as such have to deal with the questions that you are getting asked

anyway you seem like a nice guy and i hope NY is good to u!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 41
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hopefully someone from new york can comment on this particular issue. But if it was me i would be gone in a second, never scared of anything like that love the challenge! at the end of the day most o

Kalsingh, when someone asks you your religion, do you say your a Sikh? Because then your personal reasons become wider as people get their impression of religions based on the people they meet, people

I am thinking about going to New York for this work experience programme. I am from London. I have been thinking about it for years but I have been putting it off due to the feeling/concern/fear tha

Yeah, you're right about the comparing ourselves to people less fortunate thing, that is true. I wish people could do that consistently and continuously (we'd have less problems) but unfortunately they cannot. On a sidenote, my 'war' is not a monetary one.

Thanks for your good wishes.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, you're right about the comparing ourselves to people less fortunate thing, that is true. I wish people could do that consistently and continuously (we'd have less problems) but unfortunately they cannot. On a sidenote, my 'war' is not a monetary one.

Thanks for your good wishes.

Kalsingh, when someone asks you your religion, do you say your a Sikh? Because then your personal reasons become wider as people get their impression of religions based on the people they meet, people like you and me. Just hoping the lack of dastaar doesn't bring the pride of the Sikh image down. Just saying cuz I've seen kids in high school with a full beard and no dastaar or patka, only a joora and it did not look nice at all. I was even embarrassed. :s

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I say I'm a Sikh but not a fully practising one. Guess I should start saying aspiring sikh.

It should not bring the pride of the Sikh image down and even if it does, that is not my fault. What is more damaging (from some peoples viewpoint, not mine) is when all the moneh say they are Sikh. Why should I be singled out. I'm a one off, I'm yet to see another 'aspiring sikh male' who rocks his hair how I do. Therefore, I doubt one man's version of being 'sikh' is going to influence peoples perceptions.

The kids you are referring to, are they wearing jooras ontop of their heads? I've seen these too and yeah it does look embarassing. Mine is tied neatly at the back of my head. My beard is groomed and shaped, I try my level best to keep it from getting messy. I look a bit like a biker some might say.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is ridiculous, you cannot say he cannot call himself a sikh cos he doesn't wear a dastar, and kal in turn you have no right to say someone who is a mona cannot say it but you can because you are 'one' off?

Some of you will have a dastar, but gossip, judge, secretly lust etc- but what?- you are a sikh because of your external appearance? I think not.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, learningkaur, please read the posts fully and look at them in context in terms of what was being said before (I suspected you did this from one of your earlier posts when you thought I may have been a full on bana wearing singh, where a few posts before that I clearly stated I wasn't (to someone else)). You're doing it again here.

The one off comment you have completely got confused about. I was saying that I'm a one off in terms of how I look. I was saying that because of this, I am very unlikely to shape peoples perceptions of Sikhs. People were saying I might confuse other people, maybe making it look like it is ok for a 'sikh' to wear his hair like this. I was saying as I am a one off, it is hardly going to make an impact on their perceptions.

In terms of the mona thing, if you look at what I wrote in brackets (from some peoples viewpoint, not mine), then you will see I was saying nothing against monas. People seemed to be singling me out for confusion I may add to non sikhs etc but I was saying well why don't you say the same things to monas too (even though I don't believe they should say anything to monas), i.e., why am I being singled out.

I am one of the last people on sikhsangat to criticise monas. I am aware of the various elements on here that go out of their way to always demonise monas and I always try my best to speak up for them (not encourage them). I do this in my daily life too. We are not going to have panthic unity if people who cut their kesh are always demonised. (sorry learningkaur, going a bit off topic here). Singhs wander and complain why do so many people become radha swamis, christians (as wee see in Punjab) or whatever etc. Why do you think? Because you are not all embracing. By me saying we should be all embracing is not saying I am encouraging cutting of kesh but I am saying we need to accept the situation as it is and slowly work on that. Concentrate on teaching these people bani and its meanings rather than making the first conversation you have with them about kesh. With this apporach, you will see them become more inclined towards sikhi and quite often, even embracing kesh and the dastar itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not about you, I or any one individual Kalsingh. We’re in this together and therefore if someone is lacking something we’re all accountable and we all have work to do. However, that accountability and work includes you and I.

People can take their own path to a destination. But in doing s0, they should at the least ‘do no harm’ to the beauty of that destination or the values they wish to adopt.

You seem like a well intentioned person with truth in your heart. Without a doubt your appearance with a claim to Sikhi brings the Sikh image down. The kesh and dastar are inseparable for a Sikh in public. Unless every person outside Sikhi and every youngster within Sikhi has a conversation with you, they are going to make assumptions and wrong ones. To other Sikhs who you pass without conversation, you appear as a naked nuance.

We cater to perceptions when it comes to dress for parties, business, casual, work, seasons, places, even if we don’t know others around us, because we think it is important to be judged a certain way. But we become hypocritical and weak when it comes to Sikhi, saying “they don’t know me, therefore my appearance doesn’t matter and they shouldn’t judge me”. We should do what you have done in part, and simply admit that it is entirely our weakness. That way we know what to work on.

You almost suggest it’s not your problem if you bring the Sikh image down. However, my guess is you do care. Perhaps you didn’t quite consider the extent of the negative effect on the Sikh nation. We all bring the Sikh image down. All of us are aspiring to be Sikhs all the time. None of us has reached the top of some mountain. However, the more blatant we are in our potential harm to nation, the greater our responsibility to change our actions.

The vast majority of mona culture, trimmed culture, keshdhari drinking culture, baseball cap culture, ‘amritdhari’ corrupt culture etc. etc. is all bringing the Sikh nation down. When one is doing direct damage to a nation, it is not an acceptable response to say the more “responsible citizens” of the nation are not quite perfect or they are not embracing/respecting me, therefore my irresponsibility is their fault. No society reasons in that manner.

Those worthy of your respect will respect you. Respect yourself first and offer your respect to others, that is the Sikhi way. You have a calm humble manner bro, the Sikh nation needs those like you to claim your crown.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@kalsingh - chill, i think you took my comment to heart as you cannot read emotion in a forum, I'm merely quick replying whilst at work... and sorry i haven't got the patience to read everything, so i answered you based on the title of this topic, 'tolerance of sikhs in nyc', - i didn't think someone of your description would feel the need to ask this (as you don't wear a dastar so don't understand cos you pretty much fit into the croud?) anyways goodluck

Link to post
Share on other sites

When one is doing direct damage to a nation, it is not an acceptable response to say the more “responsible citizens” of the nation are not quite perfect or they are not embracing/respecting me, therefore my irresponsibility is their fault. No society reasons in that manner

I was not implying this in the slightest. I am perpelexed at how you have come to this conclusion.

Do you know what though, you are probably right about people like me, monas, trim singhs, cap wearers etc bringing the image of Sikhi down. But, and here's the big but, IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT OR PROBLEM. I am very sorry for using capitals there brother but I want you to understand this, no offence intended.

It is peoples ignorance and close mindedness and one dimensional way of thinking that allows people like me, trim singhs, cap wearers to bring Sikhi down. It should not bring the image down in the slightest if you were to look at it in terms of everyone is a student. Some are further in their studies than others but they are still students. Some are more serious than others but again, they are still students.

If I were an outsider (not of the Sikh faith) let's say a white american christian, and I were to look at all these Sikhs and know this (what I have told you above) I would not be confused in the slightest. (I do admit that the people like me, monas and whoever should not say we are perfect sikhs. No one should say that. Maybe your annoyance is coming from when monas tell non sikhs they are sikh and that kesh is not needed, it is all about how you are on the inside? I wouldn't blame you for that). The christians have the same thing going on, those who practice and those who only occasionally pray or whatever. That is not how we want it but I'm afraid that is how it is man. That's how the world works. A human was not created instantly with five fingers (if you believe in evolution). It took years for the fingers to develop and materialise. Same way, you cannot expect all the monas or whoever to suddenly start wearing pugris and by saying they are damaging the sikh nation is not just incorrect, it is damaging to the potential possibilty of them embracing sikhi to the levels you want in the future.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While on the topic of Sikhi saroop, what do you guys think about sardars with earrings? I know rehat says no, and from a Sikh perspective it's altering God's creation. If He wanted us to wear earrings then we would be born with holes in our ears.

But then I came across this pic of a young Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

http://www.google.co...r:29,s:173,i:96

I've seen similar pics of other Sikh maharajas with earrings, so what's the deal?

Here's a pic of Maharaja Bhupinder Singh rockin' stud earrings.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sikh+maharaja&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1658&bih=753&tbm=isch&tbnid=3OjZ0CBArwiLcM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sikharchives.com/%3Fp%3D394&docid=Xdm1Eq0B2leenM&imgurl=http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Maharaja-Bhupinder-Singh.jpg&w=800&h=527&ei=bP83UMfnCMT50gGevYCQCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=491&vpy=155&dur=1253&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=179&ty=70&sig=118229050538687033059&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=175&start=0&ndsp=42&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:82

Link to post
Share on other sites
While on the topic of Sikhi saroop, what do you guys think about sardars with earrings? I know rehat says no, and from a Sikh perspective it's altering God's creation. If He wanted us to wear earrings then we would be born with holes in our ears.

But then I came across this pic of a young Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

http://www.google.co...r:29,s:173,i:96

I've seen similar pics of other Sikh maharajas with earrings, so what's the deal?

Here's a pic of Maharaja Bhupinder Singh rockin' stud earrings.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sikh+maharaja&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1658&bih=753&tbm=isch&tbnid=3OjZ0CBArwiLcM:&imgrefurl=http://www.sikharchives.com/%3Fp%3D394&docid=Xdm1Eq0B2leenM&imgurl=http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Maharaja-Bhupinder-Singh.jpg&w=800&h=527&ei=bP83UMfnCMT50gGevYCQCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=491&vpy=155&dur=1253&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=179&ty=70&sig=118229050538687033059&page=1&tbnh=134&tbnw=175&start=0&ndsp=42&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:82

In general, I don't think we should be looking at the Maharaja's for advice about Sikhi. Maharaja Ranjit Singh did many things that are not acceptable in Sikhi.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When one is doing direct damage to a nation, it is not an acceptable response to say the more “responsible citizens” of the nation are not quite perfect or they are not embracing/respecting me, therefore my irresponsibility is their fault. No society reasons in that manner

I was not implying this in the slightest. I am perpelexed at how you have come to this conclusion.

you stated ....."But then, maybe you should be telling all the pug wale around, and to be honest even some amritdharis that they cannot call themselves keshdharis and amridharis as by the fourth masters definition himself, one who calls himself a sikh shall rise in the ambrosial hours, have a bath and meditate on the name. I know you know half of the so called singhs don't even do that, so go tell them to stop calling them sikhs too."....sorry if I misunderstood you, regardless that is applicable perhaps not to you, but it is reasoning used a great deal

Do you know what though, you are probably right about people like me, monas, trim singhs, cap wearers etc bringing the image of Sikhi down. But, and here's the big but, IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT OR PROBLEM. I am very sorry for using capitals there brother but I want you to understand this, no offence intended.

no offence taken at all bro

It is peoples ignorance and close mindedness and one dimensional way of thinking that allows people like me, trim singhs, cap wearers to bring Sikhi down. It should not bring the image down in the slightest if you were to look at it in terms of everyone is a student. Some are further in their studies than others but they are still students. Some are more serious than others but again, they are still students.

I trust YOU are a student. However lets face the facts. For the most part those who claim Sikhi, claim they are studying, spend their entire lives figuratively "sitting in the university pub". Where enrollment is unrestricted and the teaching is the best in the world, those drunken students are damaging the University. In Sikhi, the action defines the student, not the label. As for you it's understandable if you come to the school without the school uniform and eventually put one on. That is most admirable. But walking around wearing one pants leg of the uniform with the other cut off is a strange way to show your commitment to the school. Similarily, wonderful that you have grown your hair out. However, the dastar is part of that.

If I were an outsider (not of the Sikh faith) let's say a white american christian, and I were to look at all these Sikhs and know this (what I have told you above) I would not be confused in the slightest. (I do admit that the people like me, monas and whoever should not say we are perfect sikhs. No one should say that. Maybe your annoyance is coming from when monas tell non sikhs they are sikh and that kesh is not needed, it is all about how you are on the inside? I wouldn't blame you for that). The christians have the same thing going on, those who practice and those who only occasionally pray or whatever. That is not how we want it but I'm afraid that is how it is man. That's how the world works. A human was not created instantly with five fingers (if you believe in evolution). It took years for the fingers to develop and materialise. Same way, you cannot expect all the monas or whoever to suddenly start wearing pugris and by saying they are damaging the sikh nation is not just incorrect, it is damaging to the potential possibilty of them embracing sikhi to the levels you want in the future.

Embracing Sikhi is a person's own perogative. it does not concern me if people do not wish to embrace Sikhi. it does concern me if people claim Sikhi to be a birthright/ie. caste. My concern is respecting and preserving Sikhi for Sikhi and for those who wish to embrace it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use