40 Sikhs Convert To Christianity In Tarn Taran District

[KhalistaniGunMan]

Future of Sikhi is outside of India

true but heart of sikhi will always be punjab..we have too much history there...

[panther]

this is total bs going on. 31 different Gurdwara's in a small village and now the ex-Sikhs are making a church?

[sweetshera]

they were never sikh in the first place as most sikhs say they are low caste.

[Jonny101]

Like it or not, we certainly do have a caste problem. Although everyone does it to some extent but Jats seem to do it the most. I can see a non Amritdhari practicing caste discrimination, but I can never understand how and why Amritdharis practice caste based discrimination. This is the worst type of practice equal in my opinion to the 4 krahits. Maharaj Sumath Bakshan Sikh Kaum noon because the Sikh kaum is doing so many things against Gurmat.

[panther]

Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits

By Sunil Raman

BBC News, Eraiyur

The village came up around the parish church, Lady of the Rosary Parish

Centuries ago, as their forefathers faced social and economic deprivation, many low-caste Hindus embraced Christianity.

But in one corner of southern India, their hopes for equality remain unfulfilled hundreds of years on. Called "pariahs", hundreds of Dalit Christians continue to face discrimination - not from Hindus but fellow Christians.

More than 200km (124 miles) from Chennai, the capital of the southern state of Tamil Nadu, is the village of Eraiyur.

Home to about 3,000 Dalit Christians, mostly farm labourers and migrant workers, the area witnessed violence last year when Dalits demanded equal treatment.

The village is dominated by Vanniyar Christians numbering 15,000, who own most of the land and businesses.

They imposed restrictions on Dalits even though they had also converted to Christianity.

Restricted life

A 17th Century church building, Lady of the Rosary Parish, stands tall above the Eraiyur settlement. The village came up around the parish church, with Vanniyar houses closest to it. The Dalits were forced to build their small huts on the fringe of the village.

It did not take long for the divisions within the Hindu social system to be reflected among the new Christians.

The dominant Vanniyars created rules which restricted the movement of the Dalits.

We were told not to touch any upper caste person, not to get too close to them, not to talk to them

Mrs Peraiyamakar

When they visited the parish church they were not allowed to walk on the main street leading to the building. Instead they had to use a side street that led to the church gate.

When Dalits died they were not allowed to be buried in the cemetery. Their burial ground is beyond the village and can only be accessed through a broken path.

In addition, the funeral cart parked inside the church building can be used only by Vanniyars.

"We were told not to touch any upper caste person, not to get too close to them, not to talk to them," says Mrs Peraiyamaka, 60, a farm labourer who has been visiting the parish church since childhood.

"It is no different now."

Mr Thomas, a 60-year-old labourer says there is also a fear of violence as young Dalits refuse to be submitted to such humiliation.

He says this fear prompted the Dalits to build an alternative church.

A single-room, white-washed brick structure with an iron grill for the entrance is set in a small open ground.

Called Our Lady of Perpetual Help, the Dalit church has a coloured icon of Virgin Mary with Baby Jesus in her arms. She is flanked by plastic flowers and incense sticks burn on the sides.

The Dalits' demands of recognition for their church were rejected by local Catholic priests on the ground that a village can have only one parish church.

{C}

There is no big change after we came to Christianity. We have very good Christian names, we read Bible and got to Church instead of temples.

Mr Mathew, Dalit activist {C}

Mr Mathew is a Dalit activist who graduated from Madras University.

Having faced prejudice as a schoolboy, he has now decided to fight for the rights of Dalits.

His efforts to seek justice have created tension in his village, forcing him to move to elsewhere.

He is angry that although the constitution has banned "untouchability" it continues to be practised in different ways.

"My family may get some minimum help or guidance from Christianity. That's all. There is no big change after we came to Christianity," says Mr Mathew.

Vanniyars disgruntled

{C}

Dalits are demanding that their church be recognised {C}

As we walked out of the Dalit quarters towards the well laid-out area where Vanniyar Christians live under the shadow of the whitewashed parish church, we were greeted by a few angry women.

They did not want us to take pictures and asked us to leave.

A few angry residents of Vanniyar quarters gathered around us. They agreed to answer our questions. Emily, 25, was eager to give their version of the story.

"We have allowed them to use the road. They are creating trouble," she says.

We asked her how in a free country one group could dictate to others on the use of a public road.

"I don't know. It's been like this… but we have now allowed them," Emily replied.

Similar responses came from other Vanniyars we spoke to.

Mr Arukadas, a retired government teacher lives next to the parish church and he shared his unhappiness with the Dalit Christians.

Asked about using a common funeral van and a graveyard where all Christians irrespective of their past Hindu caste identity can be buried, he retorted: "It will take a long time for a common graveyard."

[mrsingh12]

Like it or not, we certainly do have a caste problem. Although everyone does it to some extent but Jats seem to do it the most. I can see a non Amritdhari practicing caste discrimination, but I can never understand how and why Amritdharis practice caste based discrimination. This is the worst type of practice equal in my opinion to the 4 krahits. Maharaj Sumath Bakshan Sikh Kaum noon because the Sikh kaum is doing so many things against Gurmat.

bro I heard that around the Khalsa Raaj period, the caste system was virtually eroded, but after the British took over, the reintroduced the system as a method of divide and rule, which remains until today. How much of this is true?

[panther]

This is the equality they think they will get

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jpC82pTJr8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7_HSfHi3hA

[lsingh]

Under Indian rule since 1947 the promotion of caste has accelerated as Brahmin ideas take a grip on the Sikhs. Discrimination not only on caste but against women has also increased as fake babas, Sants, Dera and cults have mushroomed in the Punjab.

[VanHelsingh]

Like it or not, we certainly do have a caste problem. Although everyone does it to some extent but Jats seem to do it the most. I can see a non Amritdhari practicing caste discrimination, but I can never understand how and why Amritdharis practice caste based discrimination. This is the worst type of practice equal in my opinion to the 4 krahits. Maharaj Sumath Bakshan Sikh Kaum noon because the Sikh kaum is doing so many things against Gurmat.

Do people who take Amrit in this day and age know why exactly they are taking Amrit and the responsibility and expectations it entails? Or is it just a way of washing away previous sins and saying "Mein Gursikh Ban Gaya", crank out the 5 Baniya everyday for the rest of their lives, and sit back and expect to be welcomed open-armed into whichever heavenly paradise they hope to reach?

The quality of mature (i.e. over 40) Amrit-taker, from what I've seen in my own personal life, may appear as a Gursikh but they haven't forgone the old Panjabiyat attitudes to caste, community, etc. They've just dressed themselves up as respectable, pious individuals without caring to give their insides the same scrub-down (figuratively speaking).

People such as these have devalued the blessing of Amrit, so much so that some people belittle those who have taken Amrit by saying things such as "Leh! Amrit shakh leya! Pakhandi saadh", etc! You get these attitudes and snide remarks because of some folks past experiences with those purporting to be Guru Ji's Sikhs.

Although I must say the youth who take Amrit (certainly in the UK) take the whole thing very, very seriously. Some might say too seriously if the 'Pesh' topics on this site are any indication ( :biggrin2: ). But generally these young lads and lasses completely understand the committment they are making to Guru Ji once they've taken Amrit, and if that's any indication then the future might be okay for us.