The History Of The Udaseen Samparda

[Consciousness]

http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5586

Vaar 01 Pauri 46 - So Tikka So Chattar

In this recording of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars Katha done by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj you hear Sant ji tell sangat that Sri Chand (who is an udasi) told people not to bow (worship) to Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj and instead worship at the monument i (Sri Chand) built for Sri Guru Nana Dev Ji Maharaj.

You should think for yourself basing everything on what others say is not veechar/ self inquiry. Sant Gurbachan singh ji can be wrong and bhai Gurdaas ji's vaars were not accepted in gurbani so they are not gurbani. Only gurbani can be the objective truth the rest of information is prone to some form of subjective truth and not necessarily factual.

[chatanga]

how can Nihangs be the ancient foot soldiers of Durga? and how can Udasins have existed before the birth of Sri Guru Nanak dev Jee?

the meaning is that those ancient foot soldiers were born again in Kalyug as Sikh warriors.

[Singh559]

You should think for yourself basing everything on what others say is not veechar/ self inquiry. Sant Gurbachan singh ji can be wrong and bhai Gurdaas ji's vaars were not accepted in gurbani so they are not gurbani. Only gurbani can be the objective truth the rest of information is prone to some form of subjective truth and not necessarily factual.

Perhaps it'd be best to also look at Gurbani then as well.

This Shabad is by Bhatt Sathaa & Balvand in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 966

lhxy dI PyrweIAY nwnkw dohI KtIAY ]

joiq Ehw jugiq swie sih kwieAw Pyir pltIAY ]

JulY su Cqu inrMjnI mil qKqu bYTw gur htIAY ]

krih ij gur PurmwieAw isl jogu AlUxI ctIAY ]

lµgru clY gur sbid hir qoit n AwvI KtIAY ]

Krcy idiq KsMm dI Awp KhdI KYir dbtIAY ]

hovY isPiq KsMm dI nUru Arshu kurshu JtIAY ]

quDu ifTy scy pwiqswh mlu jnm jnm dI ktIAY ]

scu ij guir PurmwieAw ikau eydU bolhu htIAY ]

puqRI kaulu n pwilE kir pIrhu kMn@ murtIAY ]

idil KotY AwkI iPrin@ bMin@ Bwru aucwiein@ CtIAY ]

ijin AwKI soeI kry ijin kIqI iqnY QtIAY ]

kauxu hwry ikin auvtIAY ]2]

lehanae dhee faeraaeeai naanakaa dhohee khatteeai ||

joth ouhaa jugath saae sehi kaaeiaa faer palatteeai ||

jhulai s shhath nira(n)janee mal thakhath bait(h)aa gur hatteeai ||

karehi j gur furamaaeiaa sil jog aloonee chatteeai ||

la(n)gar chalai gur sabadh har thott n aavee khatteeai ||

kharachae dhith khasa(n)m dhee aap khehadhee khair dhabatteeai ||

hovai sifath khasa(n)m dhee noor arasahu kurasahu jhatteeai ||

thudhh ddit(h)ae sachae paathisaah mal janam janam dhee katteeai ||

sach j gur furamaaeiaa kio eaedhoo bolahu hatteeai ||

puthree koul n paaliou kar peerahu ka(n)nh muratteeai ||

dhil khottai aakee firanih ba(n)nih bhaar ouchaaeinih shhatteeai ||

jin aakhee soee karae jin keethee thinai thhatteeai ||

koun haarae kin ouvatteeai ||2||

Nanak proclaimed Lehna's succession - he earned it.

They shared the One Light and the same way; the King just changed His body.

The immaculate canopy waves over Him, and He sits on the throne in the Guru's shop.

He does as the Guru commands; He tasted the tasteless stone of Yoga.

The Langar - the Kitchen of the Guru's Shabad has been opened, and its supplies never run short.

Whatever His Master gave, He spent; He distributed it all to be eaten.

The Praises of the Master were sung, and the Divine Light descended from the heavens to the earth.

Gazing upon You, O True King, the filth of countless past lives is washed away.

The Guru gave the True Command; why should we hesitate to proclaim this?

His sons did not obey His Word; they turned their backs on Him as Guru.

These evil-hearted ones became rebellious; they carry loads of sin on their backs.

Whatever the Guru said, Lehna did, and so he was installed on the throne.

Who has lost, and who has won? ||2||

Can you please tell me how Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran are not accepted? Sikhs consider Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran to be the "Kunji" or "Key" to understand Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

A most respected GurSikh. Also, you call Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale was a well respected GurSikh and does katha of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran according to Gurmat.

Perhaps we should look at what Gurbani says about Sants and REAL Sants doing katha?

[Consciousness]

Perhaps it'd be best to also look at Gurbani then as well.

[/i]

Can you please tell me how Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran are not accepted? Sikhs consider Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran to be the "Kunji" or "Key" to understand Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

A most respected GurSikh. Also, you call Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale was a well respected GurSikh and does katha of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran according to Gurmat.

Perhaps we should look at what Gurbani says about Sants and REAL Sants doing katha?

Yes but only a brahgiani can know another brahmgiani; brahmgiani gat brahmgian janai. To know a real sant you must be a sant yourself. Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaars were not accepted because they are not always accordance to gurbani i.e. being chauta padh bani so his bani was not accepted but was fit enough to inspire guru's sikhs to follow the sikh religion - so were given as a key - a prerequisite to gurbani to build sharda and faith.

[Singh559]

Yes but only a brahgiani can know another brahmgiani; brahmgiani gat brahmgian janai. To know a real sant you must be a sant yourself. Bhai Gurdas Ji's vaars were not accepted because they are not always accordance to gurbani i.e. being chauta padh bani so his bani was not accepted but was fit enough to inspire guru's sikhs to follow the sikh religion - so were given as a key - a prerequisite to gurbani to build sharda and faith.

I don't know if I agree with a few of the concepts you say, but overall yes a brahmgiani knows another brahmgiani which is why I don't believe people claiming so and so mahapursh travelling to so and so Gurudwara in so and so city in USA is a brahmgiani just because his followers say so.

How do we know if someone is a Brahmgiani? The best way to know is those who live and die as GurSikhs. In hindsight i can say for sure that Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale was a true Sikh and Khalsa.

Same with GurSikhs like Attar Singh Mastuane, Sant Isher Singh Rara Sahib Wale and so many more.

~~~

As for Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran, although we disagree upon the point of whether or not Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran contradict Gurbani, we can use it as a historical reference of someone who was a GurSikh around the times of the Gurus.

[Consciousness]

Having respect for gursikhs is based on ones own definition of how a sant should be but it doesn't prove they are a sant. I disagree the only best way is to become a brahmgiani first and then say who a sant really is. Living a gursikh life doesn't necessarily make someone a saint - there is a possibility but still there is uncertainty. Respect everyone...

[Singh559]

Having respect for gursikhs is based on ones own definition of how a sant should be but it doesn't prove they are a sant. I disagree the only best way is to become a brahmgiani first and then say who a sant really is. Living a gursikh life doesn't necessarily make someone a saint - there is a possibility but still there is uncertainty. Respect everyone...

Alright, sure I won't be 100% sure that these individuals were jeevan mukhat, but I have a great feeling that they were and vishwaash. I don't follow random babay and am cynical of most people now a days, but that doesn't take away from real sants. Sikhi has a great regard to not only doing Simran, but also taking action. Those who have done akaal chalaana have left their actions and examples here along with their katha and Budhi to help Sikhs understand Gurbani for themselves.

Respect everyone, I agree, but that doesn't mean you accept made up history. I am not sure what your post is trying to say, are you saying that perhaps Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale wasn't a Sant and same with Bhai Gurdas Ji and thus they may be wrong about the Udhasian and somehow we aren't respecting Udhasian by rooting out the truth?

I understand where you're coming from and I respect it, but I'm just wanting a clarification just for the record so we can get back to topic a.s.a.p.

Also, your concept of what a Sant is perhaps may be a bit skewed if you ask me. Being a Sant and a Brahmgian is an avasta, not a power level that tells you whether someone else's power level is over or below 9,000. (at least in my opinion) Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale was a Sant Sipahi, there was no doubt about this, I don't need any philosophical debate about this, but there were traitors there and even Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale didn't have a scouter that separated those with bad intentions from those with good.

Now a days you get people who use Sant in their name as some sort of title, but instead it should be vested upon the individual if the Khalsa Panth gives it to them. Just like how the Khalsa Panth bestowed the title of Sant to Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale.

[PAL 07]

the meaning is that those ancient foot soldiers were born again in Kalyug as Sikh warriors.

In the Dasam Granth when Guru Sahib writes about Chandi's battles he makes references to the the valour of the Nihang foot soldiers aswell.

[Jonny101]

In the Dasam Granth when Guru Sahib writes about Chandi's battles he makes references to the the valour of the Nihang foot soldiers aswell.

I don't think Nihang there means the Sikh Nihangs. I will recheck the translation but it's definitely not Sikh Nihang if that's what you're thinking it means.

the meaning is that those ancient foot soldiers were born again in Kalyug as Sikh warriors.

Okay, according to the story it was the Devtas that fought alongside Durga. So Nihangs are reincarnations of those Devtas?

[chatanga]

Okay, according to the story it was the Devtas that fought alongside Durga. So Nihangs are reincarnations of those Devtas?

You kidding me ay ya? the devtas were always getting their [MOD CUT] kicked by the dents. I have never heard of any of the Devtas assisting Durga Mata in her battles.