The History Of The Udaseen Samparda

[Only five]

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5586

Vaar 01 Pauri 46 - So Tikka So Chattar

In this recording of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars Katha done by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj you hear Sant ji tell sangat that Sri Chand (who is an udasi) told people not to bow (worship) to Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj and instead worship at the monument i (Sri Chand) built for Sri Guru Nana Dev Ji Maharaj.

[Only five]

Here is another recording of Sant Ji doing katha of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Sant ji again says Sri Chand was full of ego and told people not to worship Satguru Sri Guru Agand Dev Ji Maharaj, but worship the monument I(Sri Chand) built for Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. Sant ji close to the end of the katha on the last tuk says both sons of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj did not accept Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj as Guru. Also neither could both sons of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj respect Satguru Sri Guru Amar Das Ji Maharaj. Sant ji end this katha by calling the Udasi leader Sri Chand, as a person who could not follow Sikhi and this udasi leader stated empty (spiritually he stayed empty), even though look how many people follow Sri Chand. Sant ji's last words......Bhai Gurdas Ji has written the truth here.

Vaar 26 Pauri 33 - Baal Jatee Hai Sirichand

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6143

[PAL 07]

Very interesting topic, at last you actually learn something from this site - You can see how there are varied accounts of Sikh History. If you listen to the katha cited by only five sant ji describes an incident where there is a contradiction between bhai gurdas ji's account of history and the historical accounts contained in Siri Guru Grath Sahib. listen at minutes 2.36

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29/Bhai_Gurdas_Dian_Varan/Vaar_26/Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Vaar.26.Pauri.33.Baal.Jatee.Hai.Sirichand.mp3

In relation to the fact that Sri Chand didn't want Guru Angad Ji to be respected as Guru, this is different to the book i am currently reading. Personally i would agree with Sant Ji.

Good veechar lets keep it up

[PAL 07]

The below taken from www.allaboutsikhs.com would emphasize that Guru Nanak Dev Ji bestowed the Udasi sect to Sri Chand.

Guru Nanak Dev ji left Baba Siri Chand ji in charge of Kartarpur during his later Udasis and following his final Udasi bestowed the dress and duty of Udasi (Pilgrim/Missionary) on Baba Siri Chand ji himself. Thus Baba Siri Chand ji was given the responsibility of uniting the various Sadhu samaj (ascetic schools) and integrating them with the "householders" (devotees who led a worldly life).

However my personal opinion is that the Udasi's just like the Nihang sect have their roots deep in ancient times, as Nihangs such as Baba Nihal Singh Ji jatherdar of Taruna Dal will confirm that the Nihangs were the foot soldiers of Mata Durga during her battles with the demons. Similarly the Udasi sect is ancient. Just like Guru Gobind Singh Ji in relation to creating Nihangs, Guru Nanak Dev Ji served only to further glorify the various sects

[Jonny101]

The below taken from www.allaboutsikhs.com would emphasize that Guru Nanak Dev Ji bestowed the Udasi sect to Sri Chand.

Guru Nanak Dev ji left Baba Siri Chand ji in charge of Kartarpur during his later Udasis and following his final Udasi bestowed the dress and duty of Udasi (Pilgrim/Missionary) on Baba Siri Chand ji himself. Thus Baba Siri Chand ji was given the responsibility of uniting the various Sadhu samaj (ascetic schools) and integrating them with the "householders" (devotees who led a worldly life).

However my personal opinion is that the Udasi's just like the Nihang sect have their roots deep in ancient times, as Nihangs such as Baba Nihal Singh Ji jatherdar of Taruna Dal will confirm that the Nihangs were the foot soldiers of Mata Durga during her battles with the demons. Similarly the Udasi sect is ancient. Just like Guru Gobind Singh Ji in relation to creating Nihangs, Guru Nanak Dev Ji served only to further glorify the various sects

how can Nihangs be the ancient foot soldiers of Durga? and how can Udasins have existed before the birth of Sri Guru Nanak dev Jee?

[N30S1NGH]

Found an good thread - research on udasi:

http://www.sikhaware...-misconception/

Also did anyone read this book below:

Itihas Damdami Taksal (Sankhep)

This book is an effort to bring out the history of Damdami Taksaal. The book says that Guru Amardas Ji appointed 22 ‘Manjis’ and 72 ‘Peerhaas’ to preach the Gurbani. Guru Arjan Dev Ji edited ‘Beerh Sahib’ (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji). Baba Sri Chand started preaching the Gurmat. After Sri Chand, Baba Gurditta Ji was famous ‘Mahatma’ of Udasi sect. There were four disciples of Baba Gurditta Ji. Their names were ‘Baalu Hasna’, ‘Phoole Shah’, ‘Goyenda’ and ‘Almast’. They established four ‘Dhooney’ of Udasis. The four ‘Dhooney’ and six ‘Bakhsishaan’ are called ‘Das Naam Udasi’. All the Udasis belonging to these ‘Dhooney’ and ‘Bakhshishaan’ established hundred of ‘Deras’, ‘Akhaarhe’ and centers. During the hard days of Mughal rule, Udasis, Nirmalas and Seva Panthis continued to preach Sikhi. The book tells that many chiefs of Sikh ‘Misals’ adopted Sikhi under influence of Udasi, Nirmalas and Sevapanthis.

During the ‘Singh Sabha Movement’, Udasis and Nirmalas established idols of Sri Chand and removed Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or they installed other books of Hindu religious books along with Guru Granth Sahib, so that their ‘deras’ could not be taken over under new Gurdwara Act. The book says that Udasis used not to cut their hair/beard, but frightened by Singh Sabha movement, now ‘Jataa-dhari’, ‘Mundit’, ‘Bhasmadhari’, ‘Nange’ and those, who wear russet clothes, can be seen.

According to the book, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Budhha Ji used to do the ‘katha’ of Gurbani. During the time period of Guru Hargobind Sahib to Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib, Sikh-scholars used to ‘Katha’. When Guru Gobind Singh came to ‘Sabo Ki Talwandi’, Guru Ji sent Baba Deep Singh alongwith 25 Singhs to Dheer Mal to bring the ‘Gurbani Beerh’, which was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Dheer Mal refused to do so.

The writer is mistaken here. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji arrived Sabo Ki Talwandi, Dheer Mal was not alive at that time. He had been died, so it is wrong to say that he refused to give the Gurbani ‘Pothi’.

The book says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji started to recite the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Bhai Mani Singh ji had been writing it. In the morning, Guru Ji used to recite Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Mani would write it. In the evening Guru Ji would teach its meanings to 48 Singhs. From ‘Kattak Sudi Pooranmaasi’, Sambat 1762 Bikrami to 23 ‘Saavan’, 1763 Bikrami, in 9 months and 9 days, Guru Ji completed the work.

According to the book, Bhai Mani Singh started the ‘Taksal’ at Sri Amritsar and Baba Deep Singh Ji started it at Damdama Sahib. The names of 48 Singhs, who were educated by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at Sabo Ki Talwandi, have been given in this book.

Then, the brief biographies have been given of Taksal-chiefs. Baba Deep Singh Ji was the first chief of Damdami Taksal. It is written in this book that when Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave ‘Guruship’ to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhai Mani Singh ji was doing the ‘Chaur’ over Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Dharam Singh Ji, Bhai Hari Singh Ji, Bhai Santokh Singh Ji Bhai Gurbaksh Singh were present there as ‘Panj Piyare’.

The writer did not quote to any of old Guru-history books to prove his statement that Baba Deep Singh Ji was present there in Sri Hazoor Sahib, Nanded, when Guru Gobind Singh Ji left for his heavenly abode. Instead, he quoted to ‘Sri Gurmukh Parkash’, written by Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa (Bhindran wale), who himself was the chief of Damdami Taksal (Jatha Bhindran). It is not an old book.

The book says that Baba Deep Singh helped Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in every battle and movement. When Baba Banda Singh Bahadur came to Anandpur Sahib, Baba Deep Singh stayed with him for three months. Baba Banda Singh was impressed to listen the ‘Katha’ by Baba Deep Singh. Here again, the writer did not give reference to any of old books.

According to the book, after the death of Divan Darbara Singh, in 1734 AD Tarna Dal and Budhha Dal were organized. Tarna Dal was divided in five groups. One of these groups was headed by Baba Deep Singh. There were 2,000 horsemen in his group.

When Jahan Khan filled up the ’sarovar’ of Sri Amritsar Sahib, Baba Deep Singh came forward to rescue. In a battle, Baba Deep Singh’s head was cut off. He put his cut head on his palm and continued to fight. Bhai Mahit Singh and Baba Naudh Singh also fought there without heads.

Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji was the second chief of Damdami Taksal. He was son of Bhai Dasaunda Singh and Mother Lachhmi Ji of village ‘Leel’, near Khemkaram, Distt. Amritsar. According to this book, the ‘Janamsakhi Giyan Ratnaavali’ was recited by Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji and was written by Bhai Surat Singh. During Abdali’s invasion, Amritsar was attacked. Baba Gurbaksh Singh was martyred in the battlefield. Baba Gurbaksh Singh’s head was cut off. He started to fight without his head.

The writer says that after the martyrdom of Bhai Mani Singh, the ‘Katha’ in Sri Harmandir Sahib was stopped, which was restarted by Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji. The people used to call him ‘Nihang Singh’.

Giani Bhai Surat Singh was the next chief. He belonged to village ‘Chann-kot’, Distt. Jhang (Pakistan). He wrote the ‘teeka’ of first ‘Vaar’ of Bhai Gurdas Ji. Bhai Surat Singh took over the control of Sri Harmandir Sahib in 1765 AD. He used to do ‘Katha’ in Sri Harmandir Sahib.

Born in Sambat 1825 Bikrami, Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji was the next chief of Damdami Taksal, according to this book. He was elder son of Bhai Surat Singh Ji.

After the death of Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji, his younger brother Bhai Sant Singh became the next chief of Damdami Taksal. The writer says that Bhai Sant Singh was the teacher of great poet Bhai Santokh Singh Ji and poet Megh Singh Ji. Bhai Sant Singh Ji expired on ‘Haarh Sudi’ 8, Samvat 1889 Bikrami.

Sant Dya Singh Ji was the next chief. After his death, Sant Giani Bhagwan Singh became the chief. The writer says that Sant Bhagwan Singh accepted 14 ‘Gupt Avtaars’. These are the 14 ‘Gupt Avtaars’: -

Baba Sri Chand Ji Baba Lakhmi Chand Ji Baba Mohari Ji Baba Mohan Ji Baba Anand bhagat Ji Baba Gurditta Ji Baba Sooraj Mal Ji Baba Ani Rai Ji Baba Atal Rai Ji Sahibzada Ajit Singh Ji Sahibzada Jujhar Singh Ji Sahibzada Zorawar Singh Ji Sahibzada Fateh Singh Ji Ramrai Ji Sant Harnam Singh Bedi was the next (9th) chief of Damdami Taksal, who was succeeded by Sant Bishan Singh Muraale wale. Sant Bishan Singh expired on ‘Maagh’ 15, 1962 Bikrami. Sant Sundar Singh Bhindrawale was the next chief of Damdami Taksal, who was born in 1883 AD (1940 Bikrami Samvat) in village Bhindar Kalaan, Distt. Firozpur. Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindrawale, who was born on February 12, 1902, succeeded Sant Sundar Singh.

The biography of Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindrawale in this book has been written by Sant Kartar Singh Bhindrawale. It is the longest part of this book.

The next chief of Damdami Taksal was Sant Kartar Singh Bhindrawale, according to this book. He died on August 16, 1977 AD. He was succeeded by Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa (Bhindrawale).

Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa was born in 1947 AD in village ‘Rode’, Distt. Faridkot. This book tells about his role during ‘Nirankari and Sikhs dispute’ in Amritsar, Nirankari-chief Murder case, Lala Jagat Narayan Murder case, ‘Akali Morcha’ etc. Interestingly, this book does not give any details of ‘Operation Blue Star’, which was a big episode of Sikh history. The writer says that Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa went to an un-told place after ‘Operation Blue Star’. The Damdami Taksal's Jathedar has maintained for years that Sant Bindranwale was not dead.

Brief biography of Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji has also been given in this book, who is acting chief of Damdami Taksal. A brief description of Gurdwara Gurdarshan Prakash, Mehta has been given on last pages.

[Only five]

Very interesting topic, at last you actually learn something from this site - You can see how there are varied accounts of Sikh History. If you listen to the katha cited by only five sant ji describes an incident where there is a contradiction between bhai gurdas ji's account of history and the historical accounts contained in Siri Guru Grath Sahib. listen at minutes 2.36

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29/Bhai_Gurdas_Dian_Varan/Vaar_26/Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Vaar.26.Pauri.33.Baal.Jatee.Hai.Sirichand.mp3

In relation to the fact that Sri Chand didn't want Guru Angad Ji to be respected as Guru, this is different to the book i am currently reading. Personally i would agree with Sant Ji.

Good veechar lets keep it up

Very interesting topic, at last you actually learn something from this site - You can see how there are varied accounts of Sikh History. If you listen to the katha cited by only five sant ji describes an incident where there is a contradiction between bhai gurdas ji's account of history and the historical accounts contained in Siri Guru Grath Sahib. listen at minutes 2.36

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_%28Bhindran_wale%29/Bhai_Gurdas_Dian_Varan/Vaar_26/Sant.Gurbachan.Singh--Vaar.26.Pauri.33.Baal.Jatee.Hai.Sirichand.mp3

In relation to the fact that Sri Chand didn't want Guru Angad Ji to be respected as Guru, this is different to the book i am currently reading. Personally i would agree with Sant Ji.

Good veechar lets keep it up

There is no contradiction between Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Gurbani. Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaars are the key to understand Gurbani. No Gurmukh ever in history said Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars contradict Gurbani. Sant ji is not saying Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars are contradicting Gurbani.

It's better you present the shabad from Gurbani, where you think Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars contradict Gurbani.

[chatanga]

Very interesting topic, at last you actually learn something from this site - You can see how there are varied accounts of Sikh History. If you listen to the katha cited by only five sant ji describes an incident where there is a contradiction between bhai gurdas ji's account of history and the historical accounts contained in Siri Guru Grath Sahib. listen at minutes 2.36

i had told of this discrepancy in Bhai Gurdas' vaaran and Gurbani in another thread, but it just seemed to go over peoples head.

[proactive]

how can Nihangs be the ancient foot soldiers of Durga? and how can Udasins have existed before the birth of Sri Guru Nanak dev Jee?

One Guy says that Nihangs are the original Khalsa and another says they've used to soldiers in the army of some mythical Godess!

[Singh559]

It's quite simple to me, denying the truth spoken by Bhai Gurdas Ji and what Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale says is merely denial and attempting to justify whatever lies you've been fed. It's common knowledge that mahants have taken Sikh high level positions and are promoting their manmat and sanatanism into Sikhi just like before kicking out all the mahants from the Gurudwaras in the early 20th century.

Those who remain open minded and accept they can be wrong remain awake, those who have a closed mind and keep insisting whatever history they copy paste is true will keep thinking whatever manmat they are fed.

Ultimate turths are Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian vaaran and katha by Mahapurshs...

To present another side to the thread on SAS:

Let's start here, what proof do you guys have that the aarta was written by Baba Sri Chand? Baba Gurditta Ji was a celibate, so he wasn't what Pal/n30 claim to be an Udasee.

Here's a copy paste of some great posts from the SAS:

- Many suggest (in books on Sikh History and on various websites) that the 'Udasi' sect, sampradha, religion (depending on their stance) was founded by Sri Chand.

- Many suggest that Sri Chand accepted Baba Gurditta ji, the son of Guru Hargobind Sahib, as his first disciple and started the 'Udasi' sect.

One such reference is Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha (see 'Mahaan Kosh', page 251 under 'Sri Chand Baba' and page 416 under 'Gurditta Baba').

- They, like Jassa Singh, indicate that the Udasi saints preached the Sikhism, remained in contact with other Sikh Gurus, namely that Guru Hargobind Sahib helped 'Almast', an udasi saint.

- Udasis recite 'maatras', hymns allegded composed by Sri Chand, however one could question the authorship of these compositions as there is no tangible evidence to support it as the writing of Sri Chand.

- Whilst Udasis as a whole are celibate, Baba Gurditta ji (who, as above is considered the first disciple of Sri Chand) was married and was the father of the seventh Guru, Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji.

- Whilst the SGPC earlier this decade announced that Udasis are Sikhs, their motives are questionable, there are many Udasi deras which now regard themselves purely a branch of Hinduism, even those who suggest that this is some form of "camoflage" to avoid detection by the SGPC (as suggested by the Sanatanis and the DDT) cannot deny that the vast majority of Udasis today also allude to the belief that their founder was Shiv, who argubly is a non-aryan god.

- Whilst conceding that the Udasis still display respect for the Guru Granth Sahib, this arguably doesn't make them any more Sikh than say Sindhis or others like them who also hold much love and respect for Gurbani.

- One could even argue that Udasis prefer to use Gurbani as their scriptures since it is easier than Sanskrit, which many Udasis, despite having the title "Shastri" do not know, hence traditional Hindu texts being offlimits for purposes of their "parchar".

- Whilst it may be true that certain Udasi Akharas were educational institutions in the past and that many Udasi Mahants are titled "Shaastri", it is worth noting, as anyone who is from India can tell you, that 'Shaastri' is an examination conducted by many Universities which one can take after their tenth class, it requires six months of study to complete. I personally have a hard time believing that one can master the Shaastras in six months.

- During the Ardas, we all recall those Sikh men and women who "Gurdwareyaan di seva layee Qurbaaniyaan keetiyaan" (made sacrifices in the service of Gurdwaras). This poses the following obvious question; We are all aware that under the British Raj, many Gurdwaras were under control of corrupt 'mahants' (the text recently provided in PDF format by Shaheediyan title "The Sikhs" by John Clarke Archer also contains a chapter on this subject), several sikhs were killed during the agitatation to obtain control of their Gurdwaras (this forms the origins of the SGPC - the institution that it has become fashionable in Sikh circles today to insult). It is common knowledge that these corrupt Mahants were Udasis - not wishing to write-off an entire community on the actions of a "few bad apples", however where were the "majority" of the "good" Udasis when Sikhs were being brutally killed during the Gurdwara reform movement? How many Udasis themselves spoke out against the "bad apples"?

- Sikhs forming the Gurdwara Reform Movement came from all schools of thought (contrary to the picture painted today of the Singh Sabha being united in their philisophical views), the only common goal and view amongst them was to protest against the system propagated by the Udasis.

- Further to the reference provided above by Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, it is also interesting to note that in the same text (Mahan Kosh), he states that Sri Chand died in Sanvat 1669, and Baba Gurditta ji was born in Sanvat 1670. The question then obviously begs an answer is how could Baba Gurditta ji become Sri Chand's disciple, when he was born after the latter's death?

- amardeep is correct, Bhai Gurdas Ji (whose hymns are permitted for use in keertan) states the following:

"Putreen kaul na paleyo, mann aakee, khotey nasiyaaraa"

(stanza 38, Vaar# 1).

"The sons (of Guru Nanak Dev Ji) did not obey his order. (They were) disobedient by their minds, (they were) impure, (who ran away (during the examination)".

- In the same text, Bhia Gurdas Ji goes on to say in stanza 33, Vaar# 26 that Sri Chand is one of those in the list of disobedient sons of the Gurus.

So what can we truly conclude about "Baba Sri Chand" and the "Udasis"...