UPDATE: LUTON RAPE CASE ; SINCE PROTEST

[jashb]

.

[dalsingh101]

jashb, regarding your first and especially second post. I doubt truer words have been spoken on this subject than those words you penned, and God bless you for that.

You ended your third post on completely the wrong foot in my opinion. Playing down the detrimental effects of caste on cohesion amongst us is a foolish move. I've lived in a hotbed Pak area for years, and don't think for one minute that one of the tactics used by certain people on gullible, impressionable girls is to ridicule their heritage over the very matter of caste (amongst other things). Seen it, heard it and have even experienced it. And btw, it doesn't matter that sullay too have their own issues with inegalitarian structures amongst themselves because the girls they target are usually too clueless to pick up on that.

On the second plane, the detrimental effect of being told you are 'lower' and as a corollary 'less worthy' that is implicit and explicit in casteism doesn't do any girls self esteem ANY good. It brings barriers to a sense of belonging to the wider community. These are exactly the types of things that helps push girls away from our (any!) society and helps deliver them into the arms of predators - be this for conversion or sexual abuse - just for a sense of being accepted as an equal. And don't tell me otherwise - I've seen it happen a fair few times with my own eyes. So highlighting and fighting the evil of caste goes hand in hand with dealing with antiSikh perverts. And whilst we are on the topic, believe it or not, I've also seen a few cases of the opposite scenario too, where girls who've been 'pumped up' about their so-called 'high status' or caste turn into jumped up spoilt brat 'princesses' who feel that they can do what they want, and go out with whoever they feel like without an apology - a sort of overconfidence if you like, that later blows up in their face. There were a fair few apneean who'd come from from outside to East London to mix with the local toughs like this, and a fair few of them ended up in a very bad way, including getting raped.

My point is that there often IS a connection between the so called 'boringly, typical one-eyed politically correct' matter of caste (as you see it) and what goes on with the grooming and targeting of girls of Sikh background for abuse and conversion.

Complaining about our lack of cohesion and unity (which, let's be frank, makes it easier for predators to step up to us) and then playing down one of the major causes of this in our society doesn't make ANY logical sense. Can I respectfully ask you to consider reviewing your stance brother/sister?

[Premi5]

On 9/30/2012 at 7:39 PM, dalsingh101 said:

jashb, regarding your first and especially second post. I doubt truer words have been spoken on this subject than those words you penned, and God bless you for that.

You ended your third post on completely the wrong foot in my opinion. Playing down the detrimental effects of caste on cohesion amongst us is a foolish move. I've lived in a hotbed Pak area for years, and don't think for one minute that one of the tactics used by certain people on gullible, impressionable girls is to ridicule their heritage over the very matter of caste (amongst other things). Seen it, heard it and have even experienced it. And btw, it doesn't matter that sullay too have their own issues with inegalitarian structures amongst themselves because the girls they target are usually too clueless to pick up on that.

On the second plane, the detrimental effect of being told you are 'lower' and as a corollary 'less worthy' that is implicit and explicit in casteism doesn't do any girls self esteem ANY good. It brings barriers to a sense of belonging to the wider community. These are exactly the types of things that helps push girls away from our (any!) society and helps deliver them into the arms of predators - be this for conversion or sexual abuse - just for a sense of being accepted as an equal. And don't tell me otherwise - I've seen it happen a fair few times with my own eyes. So highlighting and fighting the evil of caste goes hand in hand with dealing with antiSikh perverts. And whilst we are on the topic, believe it or not, I've also seen a few cases of the opposite scenario too, where girls who've been 'pumped up' about their so-called 'high status' or caste turn into jumped up spoilt brat 'princesses' who feel that they can do what they want, and go out with whoever they feel like without an apology - a sort of overconfidence if you like, that later blows up in their face. There were a fair few apneean who'd come from from outside to East London to mix with the local toughs like this, and a fair few of them ended up in a very bad way, including getting raped.

My point is that there often IS a connection between the so called 'boringly, typical one-eyed politically correct' matter of caste (as you see it) and what goes on with the grooming and targeting of girls of Sikh background for abuse and conversion.

Complaining about our lack of cohesion and unity (which, let's be frank, makes it easier for predators to step up to us) and then playing down one of the major causes of this in our society doesn't make ANY logical sense. Can I respectfully ask you to consider reviewing your stance brother/sister?

Bump @dallysingh101

[dallysingh101]

6 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Bump @dallysingh101

More than a decade later, what do you think of what I posted? 

Also, strange how jashb deleted all his posts.

[Premi5]

On 1/23/2023 at 3:21 PM, dallysingh101 said:

More than a decade later, what do you think of what I posted? 

Also, strange how jashb deleted all his posts.

How do you think our community can unite?

there are now many new first and second gen Sikhs who haven come over in very recent years. Then there are 4th or 5th gen apne also, and as you have mentioned some Apne who are mixed with other communities.

Gurdwara youth and community programmes?

I really don’t know, but I think the main message to get across from a young age is that Paks and some other groups just can never be trusted 

And I think it’s the Indian born vs Western born division rather than caste which will divide our community going forward more than anything . 

[dallysingh101]

58 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

How do you think our community can unite?

there are now many new first and second gen Sikhs who haven come over in very recent years. Then there are 4th or 5th gen apne also, and as you have mentioned some Apne who are mixed with other communities.

Gurdwara youth and community programmes?

I think you have to hit it from multiple angles simultaneously. Those days of when most of the community's kids went to the Gurdwara (like when I was young) are long gone. 

In this day and age, social media will play a big part and I have to take my hat off to certain brothers and sisters who've done a really good job on this recently - the fact that social media giants have pulled their accounts says a lot about what we face though. Look at how much resistence we get from powerful state sources - remember how that RASE report vanished from my inbox and hard drive........ 

We need shamelessly, uncompromised powerful Sikh narratives that resonate with masses. And as you allude to, we are talking about a seriously dispersed and diverse panth right now. So it isn't just dharmic values but the ancillary fields such as language (Gurmukhi, Braj Bhasha but not limited to those). World class quality literature, art, music etc. plays a big part in societies developing too.  We have to go through a community wide stage of maturing. Often it will be converts or people who see the beauty of the dharam who will portray it the best. At her best Snatam Kaur does this. That Sardar Udham film is another perfect example of what could be achieved if we take the pendu-tinted spectacles off our eyes. 

We need a really broad net, from children focused and the oft-neglected adult demographic; plus we must also encompass a lot of gairhSikhs who are interested in Sikhi. My belief is that once we achieve a solid 'critical mass' the momentum takes its own life forward. The beauty of this idea is that it allows for the utilisation and development of creative, talented people in our quom. But funding and patronage is central to this. 

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I really don’t know, but I think the main message to get across from a young age is that Paks and some other groups just can never be trusted 

I think this is tricky now. First thing, we have multiple hostile communities ranged against us. I mean how would you explain to some ditsy apnee office broad, who has had 'good experiences' working with exoticising goray (who would otherwise treat a male equivalent like shyte) that we've been getting surreptitiously attacked by these people from the pre-annexation period? What about the central role anglos have played in enabling apneean to be groomed in the first place! Sikhs would have probably knocked that shyte on the head hard in the 80s if goray didn't cover up for the groomers and attacked Sikhs. 

Also, these days, a girl is likely to get groomed by any number of other communities outside of the ones you mention. Albanians, Algerians and even other eastern european non-sullay ones.  

If other communities seem stronger, more developed, better resourced - it's inevitable girls will be attracted to them over a pendufied, regressive one.  

 

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And I think it’s the Indian born vs Western born division rather than caste which will divide our community going forward more than anything . 

Although some of this is inevitable, I don't agree with you at all. I think caste i.e. juttism is the biggest obstacle to unity, even more today than in the past. The modern incarnation of this  'culture' is parasitic. We can just look at what is considered mainstream 'Panjabi culture' these days and see just how deeply embedded this crap is. Then we have the serious matter of these people manipulating premier Sikh institutes for their anti-Sikh agenda. That different diasporas will develop differently is natural and unavoidable. That our heartland (i.e. our mass concentration) is pushing us in stupid directions is deadly. They should be directing and leading, like Saudis do for the sullah world, but they don't seem capable of rising above their casteist, provincial, pendu mindset. I guess that's another reason why the cultural maturing and development I'm alluding to is so important. If we from the diaspora (and I talk specifically about the UK here in this example) can influence the rest of the community globally, like we did with bhangra - maybe we can do the same but with infinitely more positive and progressive things?

 

Just look at how unselfconsciously clownish apna mainstream media is. We are going to have a generation raised on this shyte coming up real soon..... 

 

Notice also how 'outsiders' like Gurjant can clearly see the dichotomy in Sikh representations.    

[dallysingh101]

Who wouldn't cringe or pi55themselves laughing if they saw this coming at you from down the road?

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--3BBR8FnIyQ/UWLS_jXcJAI/AAAAAAAAAJY/2zjMOkUzWv4/s640/bhangra001.jpg

Sometimes being just a tad bit self-conscious isn't necessarily a bad thing......