Are you studying SGGS ? If not , why ?

[VanHelsingh]

Thanks for the suggestions, luckysingh.

[panthicunity]

jahan gyan taha dharm hai,jaha jhoot tahan paap

[N30S1NGH]

jahan gyan taha dharm hai,jaha jhoot tahan paap

Righto, but gyan is not limited to mere knowledge, off course knowledge is encouraged and recommended regarding sikhi theological concepts, about mind body and soul in relations with sikhi but ultimate gyan is divine experience/realization which can only be attained by meditation (naam simran and seva). There are many types of gyan and gyani- you have kavita gyani, kitabi gyani, totta gyani, parkosh gyani, and then supreme bhramgyani (aparokash gyani)..!!

Which one we want to be? That something we all have to ask ourselves..!!

[Singh559]

Vidiya Veechari Tan Parupkari

[chatanga]

Enemies are hiding on Sikh forums, thats forsure. Don't let the so called "good" post of unity fool you.

thats exactly what an enemy would say. smiley face.

I have done the whole studying thing and it has taken me down the wrong path in the past.

you dont need to tell us, we already knew. smiley face.

The word study cannot be interchanged with contemplation when discussing Gurbani. Study means to apply the mind to acquire knowledge. In Gurbani's case, the mind cannot understand Gurbani on its own. The mind is missing the most important ingredient to attain knowledge from Satguru, which is Satguru's kirpa. After studying science a person can attain knowledge that will be helpful in the future.

i wont bother with the rest of your post, but although you are correct in saying that study and contemplation are different things, study is an important stage in progressing on this path. JapuJi Sahib tells us that there are 5 stages or khands, and Gian Khand, the realm of knowledge. or acquiring knowledge comes before saram khand, where that knowledged is practised and karam khand where you are coloured and dyed in that experience of the shabad, which is also known as contemplation.

• 1. Dharam Khand: the realm of righteous action (pauri 35),
  

• 2. Gian Khand: the realm of knowledge (pauri 36),
  

• 3. Saram Khand: the realm of spiritual endeavour (pauri 36),
  

• 4. Karam Khand: the realm of grace, (pauri 37) and
  

• 5. Sach Khand: the realm of Truth (pauri 37).(from sikhi wikhi)
  

Study of Gurbani, practise of Gurbani and contemplation of Gurbani are all essential and valid.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

It's quite simple really,

Take the qualities you can from everyone, no point arguing over things online. If anyone has issues then please visit the relevant Akharas and take it up with them. The Sikhi that was present within sikhs 60 years ago in the times of great gursikhs is not the current day Sikhi, now is a time of worldy education, questioning and challenging. Sant Giani gurbachan Singh ji was blessed the title of vidiya maartand, they learnt everything.

It's pointless arguing over things, for you to obtain knowledge you must learn from a ustaad, if at that time the mahapurkhs learnt from nirmalas and other ustaads then what's the issue? Just because we may personal issues of mental understanding and don't want depth just superficial knowledge, then don't argue with those who wish to travel deeper

[Only five]

It's quite simple really,

Take the qualities you can from everyone

This should have been the solution, but instead it has become the problem. You live in the UK and would know better than me how much the youth have lost it out there and this same mentally is being seen here in Canada more recently. The so called Nihangs here in Canada and UK have started accepting Hindu rituals and slowly the so called Nihangs are slipping in idol worship in many creative ways. Put a little statue of Shiva, or some other devi before weapons and then saying we are only doing this to paint a picture of Dasam Bani, but then these youth bow to the weapons and the idol sitting infront.

Its a well known fact that youth are the most impressionable age group. If a man in blue clothing, big Dhummalla, big kirpan tells them something "creative" then they take it as ultimate authority and start following the advice. These guys in blue clothing also endorse people that speak agains the Khalsa Panth teachings. Youth actually look to those who they see as authority and prefer to follow the person in blue's teacher. Taking the qualities from everyone has not helped the Sikh youth so far, what makes you think it will help in the future?

Lets take away from the Christians something valuable, educate young impressionable minds from ONLY Gursikhs that don't look for opportunities to teach their egotistical theories of how and why Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did certain things.

The youth under the disguise of Nihang "rehat" are being sucked into drugs, eating meat, and idol worship and the way they are trained to protect their "rehat" is by uttering threats. Do you see how the so called glorious teaching of Krishna is being brought in to Sikhi.............follow the teachings of your Varna (if you are a warrior act like one). Sikhs are being split up on four Varna in a very creative manner. Veda rituals are being brought back in (puja of fire), so are the old teachings of shudras (referred as normal Sikhs) they are the slaves, don't see them as anything special or equal, don't let them talk into our affairs and our "rehat".

[N30S1NGH]

taken from http://www.gursevak....tent/arth-style

Arth Style

ਆਪੁ ਆਪਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥

To each individual, based on their own knowledge, describe God differently

If Gurusahib is infinite than so is their understanding. The more you dwell on Banee, the deeper it gets. Based on the individual the appreciation of Banee changes depending on the state of mind of the contemplater. If Banee is an infinite ocean, the deeper one could dive, the greater the experience they feel. In the same manner people describe a flower in millions of ways depending on their experience, Nirankar Saroop Banee Jee (ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੀ) can take on different meanings according to one’s spiritual state.

There are two types of translations. First there are word for word translations that just explain each word’s literal meaning. This style of translation is used in most Sateeks available today. However, the style in which Bhagat Jee composed these potheean are distinct. These arth are deeper and are derived from GuruSahib. They revolve around love(ਭਾਉ) and devotion(ਭਗਤੀ ) to GuruSahib. Many translations are given with more than one meaning based on different perspectives.

The style of these Arth are written with the utmost respect for Gurusahib in mind. When referring to GuruSahib everything is written in plural form. Just like in Punjabi subculture a loyal wife has the utmost respect and honour for her husband (ਪਤਿਵ੍ਰਤਾ) and she speaks in plural form. In GuruGranth Sahib Jee, much of the banee is composed as if Vaheguru Jee is our metaphorical husband.

ਮੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ; ਮੇਰਾ ਕੰਤੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥

I am the soul bride and my Husband Lord is the Creator of the universe.

Gurbani is not under grammaticalical boundaries, it is free and self prevading. Trying to add grammar according to one’s own intelligence is a big mistake.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ॥ ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ॥

If anyone speaks disrespectfully towards Gurbani Guru Ji, they shall be known as the greatest of fools

If people say Banee is bound by grammar, than banee is considered small. But Gurusahib writes that

ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Example of Arth:

To give an example in Bhagat Fareed Sahib Jee’s saloks (ਅੰਗ1380), the translations that are normally done are vague. The common translations are as follows:

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਰਤੀ ਰਤੁ ਨ ਨਿਕਲੈ ਜੇ ਤਨੁ ਚੀਰੈ ਕੋਇ॥

Bhagat Fareed Sahib Jee says, those who are imbued with God would not drop a single ounce of blood when their bodies are physically cut.

ਜੋ ਤਨ ਰਤੇ. ਰਬ ਸਿਉ; ਤਿਨ ਤਨਿ. ਰਤੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ॥੫੧॥

Because those bodies who are imbued with God contain no blood.

The translations are seen to be vague because all bodies have blood. Just like all Shaheeds of the sikh panth, their bodies are still human to deny that their blood spilled would be flat you mythological storytelling. To combat this dilemma, the same Banee can be seen in a different light with Bhagat Jaswant Singh Jee’s arth.

ਰਤੁ spoken softly translates into love

ਰੱਤ spoken with emphasis (ੱ) means blood.

ਫਰੀਦਾ. ਰਤੀ ਰਤੁ ਨ ਨਿਕਲੈ; ਜੇ ਤਨੁ ਚੀਰੈ ਕੋਇ॥

Bhagat (ਫਰੀਦਾ.)Fareed Sahib Jee according to ਸੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਹਿ; ਅੰਤਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ॥ are describing the spiritual state of those who are imbued with God: (ਜੇ)If (ਕੋਇ)someone tries to (ਤਨੁ)physically (ਚੀਰੈ)cut or torture these Gursevaks or offer them wealth and fame. Since they are merged in WaheguruJi (ਨ)Not even a (ਰਤੀ )miniscule amount of their (ਰਤੁ)love will (ਨਿਕਲੈ)depart from their body

ਰੱਤੇ ਰੱਬ . ਰਤੁ ਪੋਲਾ- ਜੋ ਤਨ ਰਤੇ. ਰਬ ਸਿਉ; ਤਿਨ ਤਨਿ. ਰਤੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ॥੫੧॥

This is due to the fact that (ਜੋ )those (ਤਨ)bodies that are (ਰਤੇ)imbued (ਸਿਉ)in the deep colours of (ਰਬ) God, (ਹੋਇ) have (ਨ) no (ਰਤੁ )love of attachment for (ਤਿਨ)their (ਤਨਿ)physical bodies. When one is deeply engrossed in this love for Waheguru, they, like Bhai Mati Daas Jeesacrifice their body in an instant without second thought.

[canadagoose]

I wouldnt mind studying SGGS, like learning to do Hukamnamma and gurbani santhiya. I might see where to learn it

[chatanga]

for me, santhiya and learning arth of gurbani are essential to maximum anand from gurbani.