Amritdhari, non-amritdhari.

[Mehtab Singh]

Bibek Rehat is not the rehat of the Guru

I too don't think or agree that this is true gurmat practice.

Have either of you taken Amrit? If not, then why bother to argue about something you've not even practiced? If you have and your Panj Pyaare did not ask you to keep Bibek, then by all means do what you like and eat from wherever and whoever you wish to, but don't go as far as to call Bibek as not Guru Sahib's Rehit, because it always has and always will be no matter what someone says. You don't agree with it, fine, suit yourself, but don't speak out against something you clearly have no idea about and haven't even practiced yet.

Singhs here are trying to explain it to you but if you don't want to listen then no one is going to force you. Like I always say, no one on Sikhsangat.com will prosecute you just because you don't agree with them. Its your life, its your relationship to Guru Sahib, you look after it. Following more Rehit is adding sugar to the relationship. The more you add it, the sweeter it gets. You choose not to add it, cool, up to you, your choice. Those who do wish to add it and enjoy the ras and anand, they will continue to do so even if you keep calling it "not Gurmat". No one is asking you or forcing you to keep Bibek. Moreover, without Guru Sahib's kirpa it canNOT be kept in its true form. This is the reason I said in my initial post, that those who keep Bibek AND are arrogant, and those who label Bibek as "wrong" are BOTH misled.

I guess everyone has made their points clear. Anyone got anything else to add before this thread turns out into one where Guru Sahib's Rehit is mocked and I lock it down?

[Sherdil]

My goodness, I'm not mocking Amrit.

I'm saying the institution of Amrit has become messed up.

If you cannot see, that separating yourself from people based on whether or nor they have drank Amrit rather than the content of their character is wrong, then you have created a new untouchable system and apartheid. Might as well make amritdhari and non-amritdhari water fountains to drink from. You wouldn't want to be contaminated by their jhootah.

This is not the rehat of our Guru. For those who claim it is, how do you know? Does anyone here practice it?

The only thing I could find is something called Bibekbardhi, written by a Pandit Bhagvan Singh.

Please close the thread. What more is left to say?

[Mehtab Singh]

My goodness, I'm not mocking Amrit.

I'm saying the institution of Amrit has become messed up.

If you cannot see, that separating yourself from people based on whether or nor they have drank Amrit rather than the content of their character is wrong, then you have created a new untouchable system and apartheid. Might as well make amritdhari and non-amritdhari water fountains to drink from. You wouldn't want to be contaminated by their jhootah.

This is not the rehat of our Guru. For those who claim it is, how do you know? Does anyone here practice it?

The only thing I could find is something called Bibekbardhi, written by a Pandit Bhagvan Singh.

Please close the thread. What more is left to say?

I didn't say you're mocking Amrit, just not ready to admit that you (in my opinion) don't want to learn about the Rehit called Bibek. I repeat, if your Panj Pyaare didn't ask you to follow Bibek, feel free not to. This forum may not have very many Bibekis, so I suggest you go to the gurmatbibek.com forum to ask your Bibek related questions to those who've lived most of their lives abiding by this Rehit. I tried it myself but I failed, however I choose to admit my own weaknesses rather than calling it "not Gurmat". It is 100% Gurmat, but I, Mehtab Singh am the one who was a complete failure in trying to abide by it. This is nowhere close to untouchability or apartheid. If you fail to see that, then I am sorry, I won't be able to explain any further and make a fool of myself as it would be like a student who failed 10th grade trying to explain PhD level micro biology.

Read Jail Chithhiyaan by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee. He was a Sarabloh Bibeki, a freedom fighter who spent 16 years in British jails in India suffering all sorts of tortures without an ounce of fear. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale was also Sarabloh Bibeki (if I am not mistaken) and he is spirit behind all the Gurbani viyakaran we have today. Scores of Jujhaaru Singhs in the 80s were Sarabloh Bibekis who laughed at the thougt of death. Ask anyone who has spent time with these Gurmukh pyaare if they were Bahmanvaadi followers of a Pandit Bhagvan Singh and drank from "Amritdhari Water Fountain" or the exact opposite.

My question remains unanswered, you taken Amrit or not?

[Sherdil]

Veer ji,

I haven't taken Amrit yet. However, I have the same authority to speak on it as those who praise Bibeki, without keeping it themselves.

This rehat is not followed in my Gurdwara. Anyone is allowed to prepare food and serve food. That's the way it should be.

I think some on this forum simply come to argue and score points against each other. It's quite sad that I have to defend myself for advocating good moral character over whether or not someone has drank Amrit.

Are we placing greater value on the act of drinking something, over good morals? I can see why this notion is appealing. Why would anyone want to work hard to better themselves, when one simply has to open wide and swallow?

This Bibeki creates an apartheid system and an untouchable system. It's not gurmat.

I have said this before: Amrit should be like a graduation ceremony. Given to those who have appropriate knowledge of Sikhi and have demonstrated that they have a certain level of kamai. This ensures that the institution of Amrit will not be tarnished by amritdharis that have no knowledge of Sikhi and who have to go "pesh" whenever they mess up.

Now let's see how people twist my words to prove their point.

[Mehtab Singh]

I haven't taken Amrit yet. However, I have the same authority to speak on it as those who praise Bibeki, without keeping it themselves.

That is tantamount to condemning something without even knowing what it is.

This rehat is not followed in my Gurdwara. Anyone is allowed to prepare food and serve food. That's the way it should be.

They are free not to follow it, doesn't mean its the best thing to do. They choose to do so, good for them.

I think some on this forum simply come to argue and score points against each other. It's quite sad that I have to defend myself for advocating good moral character over whether or not someone has drank Amrit.

Sorry veer, but all I see you defend is the ideology that condemns Guru Sahib's Rehit.

Are we placing greater value on the act of drinking something, over good morals? I can see why this notion is appealing. Why would anyone want to work hard to better themselves, when one simply has to open wide and swallow?

Its a shame that you consider taking Amrit just as opening the mouth and drinking something.

This Bibeki creates an apartheid system and an untouchable system. It's not gurmat.

You can say that a million more times, still won't make it right.

I have said this before: Amrit should be like a graduation ceremony. Given to those who have appropriate knowledge of Sikhi and have demonstrated that they have a certain level of kamai. This ensures that the institution of Amrit will not be tarnished by amritdharis that have no knowledge of Sikhi and who have to go "pesh" whenever they mess up.

Amrit is the beginning, not the destination. Its embarking upon the journey. Moreover, how could you define something you've not done yourself? Sitting on the banks of the river and saying "water is cold, its deep" without actually jumping inside to find out?

Now let's see how people twist my words to prove their point.

When the logic is twisted, there is nothing more left to twist brother.

[Guest]

This is from the bhai daya singh rehtnama about sarbloh

ਪਾਤਰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕੇ ਭੁਗਤੇ ਅਸਨ ਸੁਆਦ In dishes of all iron he should eat with pleasure.

ਲੋਹ ਪਾਤਰ ਮੈਂ ਛਕੈ ਨੀਲ ਪੀਤ ਧਾਰੇ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ He eats out of all iron dishes, wearing clothes of blue and yellow.

ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਤ ਸਮ ਸਿਖ ਜੋ ਸੋ ਮੇਰੋ ਰੂਪਾਇ He who lives according the the code of conduct is my very form.

ਵਾ ਮੈ ਮੋ ਮੈਂ ਭੇਦ ਨਹਿ ਮਮ ਸਰੂਪ ਹੁਇ ਜਾਇ | Between him and myself, there is no difference. He has become my form.

These are just small peices of them.I do not follow sarbloh rehat but those who do are on a much higher scale then me.

[Sherdil]

Okay brother. I am a moorakh.

By discrediting my entire argument on the basis of whether or not I have taken Amrit, you have actually proven my point.

Hypothetically, if I were to take Amrit tomorrow I would then have the authority in your eyes to speak on the topic. However, my views would not change.

You are an amritdhari, yet even you have admitted before that you are far from a perfect Sikh. Who has more respect for Amrit? Someone who takes it when they aren't ready, or someone who wants to wait and make sure that they don't sully the institution. Like I said, I don't believe in going pesh.

I have advocated that what is in someone's heart is the most important thing. If this makes me a moorakh, then I will pray for more moorakhs in ths world.

By the way, we should maybe capitalize on this new concept of amrit. If we set up a factory, where we have panj preparing Amrit around the clock, we could bottle it and sell it to people. Tell them that it will erase all their sins and make them pure. Rape anyone? Just drink this. All is forgiven. What? You accidentally had a few drinks of alcohol? No worries. We make a pesh flavor.

Silly me, why am I arguing with a mod? It will only get me put on quality control.

[Mehtab Singh]

Okay brother. I am a moorakh.

By discrediting my entire argument on the basis of whether or not I have taken Amrit, you have actually proven my point.

Hypothetically, if I were to take Amrit tomorrow I would then have the authority in your eyes to speak on the topic. However, my views would not change.

You are an amritdhari, yet even you have admitted before that you are far from a perfect Sikh. Who has more respect for Amrit? Someone who takes it when they aren't ready, or someone who wants to wait and make sure that they don't sully the institution. Like I said, I don't believe in going pesh.

I have advocated that what is in someone's heart is the most important thing. If this makes me a moorakh, then I will pray for more moorakhs in ths world.

By the way, we should maybe capitalize on this new concept of amrit. If we set up a factory, where we have panj preparing Amrit around the clock, we could bottle it and sell it to people. Tell them that it will erase all their sins and make them pure. Rape anyone? Just drink this. All is forgiven. What? You accidentally had a few drinks of alcohol? No worries. We make a pesh flavor.

Silly me, why am I arguing with a mod? It will only get me put on quality control.

I am not out here to prove anything. You just want reason to continue to believe what makes you feel comfortable, so be it. Don't blame me. I am not a perfect Sikh, no doubt, but there is no harm in trying to get there. Taking Amrit is only the first step in trying to get there, so please spare me the "not-yet-ready" argument. If you don't believe in going pesh, I guess you don't believe in taking Amrit either, as is reflected from your other posts.

Having a good heart is indeed a good thing. Even non-Sikhs are good-hearted, who says they are bad people? Here we're talking about Guru Sahib's Rehit, not how cool it is to have a good heart.

Funny that you talk about an Amrit "factory" and "bottling" and "selling" it. Some respect you have for the "institution" of Amrit!

I don't need to put you or anyone having similar views like yourself on quality control. Why? Because there has to be quality first that is worth controlling.

[Mehtab Singh]

By the way, today is the Shaheedi Divas of Vadde Sahibzaade, the day when 40 fought a million and became Shaheed. One of them was Bhai Kirpa Singh, formerly Pandit Kirpa Ram Dutt who came running from Kashmir terrified of a few hundred Mughals in 1675. The same person, after 29 years in 1704 on today's date stood fearlessly in front of a million of those same Mughals, ready to fight till his last breath and last drop of blood. THAT, my friend, is the power of the Amrit you're making fun of.

[Guest]

By the way, today is the Shaheedi Divas of Vadde Sahibzaade, the day when 40 fought a million and became Shaheed. One of them was Bhai Kirpa Singh, formerly Pandit Kirpa Ram Dutt who came running from Kashmir terrified of a few hundred Mughals in 1675. The same person, after 29 years in 1704 on today's date stood fearlessly in front of a million of those same Mughals, ready to fight till his last breath and last drop of blood. THAT, my friend, is the power of the Amrit you're making fun of.

Akaal

Lakh lakh vadayian on this occasion!This is the day when the soormey of guru gobind Singh Ji maharaj became shaheed and went to sachkhand to meet there true father!