Amritdhari, non-amritdhari.

[Mehtab Singh]

Why would you say lakh lakh vadhaiyaan?

[Bijla Singh]

Sherdil, since you have not taken Amrit and do not practice rehat fully, how do you know what is approved by Guru Sahib and whats not? What evidence do you have other than your own opinions to back up your false claims that bibek is not part of rehat? Do you even know what rehat bibek constitutes? In my post I have made it clear that Guru Sahib refused to eat from those who were not practicing the truth. Guru Sahib is pure soul and free of sins even then he did not consume food from those who were not religious in practice.

Gurbani states that Amrit has the power to erase all sins. One just has to utilize it properly according to rehat. It was the power of Amrit that transformed sparrows into hawks. Since you are non-Amritdhari what authority or evidence do you have to insult Amrit and denigrate it? Panj Pyare tell at Amrit Sanchaar that all past sins get erased provided that one abides by rehat. You audaciously claiming otherwise shows your ignorance and foolishness.

An Amritshak is a person who has taken Amrit and an Amritdhari is a person who has adopted the Amrit way of life and lives according to it. An Amritdhari who is an awful human being is not an Amritdhari by definition. One cant be both at the same time.

You state Even if all amritdharis were pure and all non-amritdharis were full of sin, it wouldn't affect your kamai to eat from them. You are treating them like untouchables.

I dont think you understand the concept of untouchability in Hinduism. Non-Amritdharis are human beings just like all the Sikhs and as humans we are all equal but that does not negate the fact that food from them is unacceptable because it is not prepared according to Gurmat. Rehat clearly prohibits roti beti di saanjh with sirgumm (monas). Untouchables can never become brahmins whereas monas can take Amrit and become part of Khalsa brotherhood. So dont even make a fool of yourself by accusing bibeki Sikhs of practicing inhumanly practice. The fact is that you are bothered by the fact that you belong to a category whose food is not accepted as Guru Ka and rather than making an effort to improve yourself to please Guru Sahib, you are deliberately trying to redefine Gurmat to suit your own lifestyle.

In terms of affecting naam kamayee, food definitely has its impact. I can present stories of Sikhs and non-Sikhs as well but to be brief, any action done by physical body has an effect on the mind. If you see something bad, it will influence your mind in a similar way. If you smell something bad, you get abhorrent feelings. If someone yells at you angrily, your state of mind will change to either angry or pathetic. Similarly, the food you eat affects the mind. Since you do not do any Amrit Vela and practice Naam Simran, you do not feel it. Ask those who struggle through Amrit Vela and try to infuse their minds with Naam and make an attempt to find out rather than sitting behind a screen and write gibberish to defy Gurmat.

When it comes to benefitting kamayee by keeping bibek, no one will (or should) give away their experiences to you or anyone for that matter because it is not pleasing to Guru Sahib. More one reveals more loss they incur. All I can say is that it is a great aid and significantly contributes to naam simran when it comes to focus, concentration, waking up and feeling refresh all day long. The experience of naam simran is more vigorous and indescribable in words. You will have to experience it yourself. Guru Rakha

[Guest]

Why would you say lakh lakh vadhaiyaan?

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਪਾਛੈ ਭਇਆ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥ कबीर जा दिन हउ मूआ पाछै भइआ अनंदु ॥ Kabīr jā ḏin ha▫o mū▫ā pācẖẖai bẖa▫i▫ā anand. Kabeer, on the day when I die, afterwards there shall be bliss.

ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥੬॥ मोहि मिलिओ प्रभु आपना संगी भजहि गोबिंदु ॥६॥ Mohi mili▫o parabẖ āpnā sangī bẖajėh gobinḏ. ||6|| I shall meet with my Lord God. Those with me shall meditate and vibrate on the Lord of the Universe. ||6||

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੰਤ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਆ ਰੋਈਐ ਜੋ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ कबीर संत मूए किआ रोईऐ जो अपुने ग्रिहि जाइ ॥ Kabīr sanṯ mū▫e ki▫ā ro▫ī▫ai jo apune garihi jā▫e. Kabeer, why cry at the death of a Saint? He is just going back to his home.

ਰੋਵਹੁ ਸਾਕਤ ਬਾਪੁਰੇ ਜੁ ਹਾਟੈ ਹਾਟ ਬਿਕਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ रोवहु साकत बापुरे जु हाटै हाट बिकाइ ॥१६॥ Rovhu sākaṯ bāpure jo hātai hāt bikā▫e. ||16|| Cry for the wretched, faithless cynic, who is sold from store to store. ||16||

The singhs and sons of maharaj ji are with there true father.That why I said Lakh Lakh vadayian.It is sad but look at the bigger picture.Now they are with the true father.

To sherdil

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਐਸਾ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੀ ਲਸਨ ਕੀ ਖਾਨਿ ॥ कबीर साकतु ऐसा है जैसी लसन की खानि ॥ Kabīr sākaṯ aisā hai jaisī lasan kī kẖān. Kabeer, the faithless cynic is like a piece of garlic.

ਕੋਨੇ ਬੈਠੇ ਖਾਈਐ ਪਰਗਟ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਦਾਨਿ ॥੧੭॥ कोने बैठे खाईऐ परगट होइ निदानि ॥१७॥ Kone baiṯẖe kẖā▫ī▫ai pargat ho▫e niḏān. ||17|| Even if you eat it sitting in a corner, it becomes obvious to everyone. ||17||

Sorry If I offended anyone.Maaf kardo

[Mehtab Singh]

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਪਾਛੈ ਭਇਆ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥ कबीर जा दिन हउ मूआ पाछै भइआ अनंदु ॥ Kabīr jā ḏin ha▫o mū▫ā pācẖẖai bẖa▫i▫ā anand. Kabeer, on the day when I die, afterwards there shall be bliss.

ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗਬਿੰਦੁ ॥੬॥ मोहि मिलिओ प्रभु आपना संगी भजहि गोबिंदु ॥६॥ Mohi mili▫o parabẖ āpnā sangī bẖajėh gobinḏ. ||6|| I shall meet with my Lord God. Those with me shall meditate and vibrate on the Lord of the Universe. ||6||

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੰਤ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਆ ਰੋਈਐ ਜੋ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ कबीर संत मूए किआ रोईऐ जो अपुने ग्रिहि जाइ ॥ Kabīr sanṯ mū▫e ki▫ā ro▫ī▫ai jo apune garihi jā▫e. Kabeer, why cry at the death of a Saint? He is just going back to his home.

ਰੋਵਹੁ ਸਾਕਤ ਬਾਪੁਰੇ ਜੁ ਹਾਟੈ ਹਾਟ ਬਿਕਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ रोवहु साकत बापुरे जु हाटै हाट बिकाइ ॥१६॥ Rovhu sākaṯ bāpure jo hātai hāt bikā▫e. ||16|| Cry for the wretched, faithless cynic, who is sold from store to store. ||16||

The singhs and sons of maharaj ji are with there true father.That why I said Lakh Lakh vadayian.It is sad but look at the bigger picture.Now they are with the true father.

sat bachan

[Guest]

sat bachan

[Sherdil]

By the way, today is the Shaheedi Divas of Vadde Sahibzaade, the day when 40 fought a million and became Shaheed. One of them was Bhai Kirpa Singh, formerly Pandit Kirpa Ram Dutt who came running from Kashmir terrified of a few hundred Mughals in 1675. The same person, after 29 years in 1704 on today's date stood fearlessly in front of a million of those same Mughals, ready to fight till his last breath and last drop of blood. THAT, my friend, is the power of the Amrit you're making fun of.

Keep saying I'm making fun of amrit. It's a good way of deflecting criticism. Even if it isn't true.

Out of all the Sikhs around the world, maybe 25% keep kes. Out of that, maybe 10% are amritdhari and 5% keep bibek.

How did such a small percentage come to dictate what "gurmat" Sikhi is?

If amrit is the beginning and not the end goal, then our numbers are nowhere near 300,000. More like 30,000.

Par teekh hai. Man gayah tuhadi gal. I have never tried to keep bibek, so what do I know? Then again, I have never tried idol worship or wearing a janeau. How can I claim these are false practices if I have never tried them?

I should stop posting now. The ambrosial nectar has not touched my lips, therefore any opinions I put forth will be immediately shot down. I do not want to contaminate anyone's kamai with my moorakh thoughts.

I will sign up for the next amrit sanchar. However, I don't want any ordinary amrit. I want only that amrit which will make it impossible for me to commit any sin or bad deed. In addition to sugar and water, it should contain all the knowledge of gurbani, so that I may absorb it as it passes through my body. If someone can make this amrit for me, then I will rush to take it right away.

Mehtab Singh ji, you have said many times that you have converted to Sikhi from Hinduism. I respect that a lot. However, I'm not sure what reference point you have outside of those who have lead you down this path. Whatever they have told you, you have come to believe.

Sikhi isn't about making sense of senseless practices. The claim that if one can't make sense of it, then it's because one doesn't have high avastha or is weak, doesn't hold water. That isn't Sikhi. Real Sikhi enlightens even the lowliest moorakhs. You don't need to reach to find meaning.

Sikhi is about discovering truth and truthful living.

[luckysingh99]

Have either of you taken Amrit? If not, then why bother to argue about something you've not even practiced? If you have and your Panj Pyaare did not ask you to keep Bibek, then by all means do what you like and eat from wherever and whoever you wish to, but don't go as far as to call Bibek as not Guru Sahib's Rehit, because it always has and always will be no matter what someone says. You don't agree with it, fine, suit yourself, but don't speak out against something you clearly have no idea about and haven't even practiced yet.

Mehtab ji,

That is not a nice or gurmat way of expressing yourself.

You seem to be saying that if you are not on the amrithdhari boat, then shut up because you won't understand.

In all honesty, I'm sure you didn't mean that because I have perceived you as a well respected and sensible member.

I am not at all impressed or can learn anything from this style of attitude!

Sherdil ji,

I did actually agree and understand exactly what you were saying and it is rightfully correct.

BUT- 'Only Five's couple of posts made me think and realise some sensible logic behind bibek rehit!

For his very neutral and sensible reasoning I have to thank Only Five for helping me realise and learn something

Sherdilji,

let me explain what I know understand after some inspiration from Only Five.

-The way I see it, is that it is a ''Good Discipline' to have and it can help one spiritually providing they don't let 'ego' take over.

As average human beings both me and you and everyone else is NOT going to be happy eating food from a kitchen where the cook is cooking the food, smoking with one hand and drinking inbetween. There will be ash flicked everywhere in the kitchen and he will be sampling straight from the utensils used for cooking. We can probably imagine that he won't have washed his hands after the toilet either!!!!

Now this is an extreme example, BUT we are NOT going to be happy accepting food cooked from this kitchen are we ?

We expect the person to be PHYSICALLY CLEAN whilst cooking. It is ALL Sensible Hygiene.

This can help you realise the logical reason behind bibek. Just as above we expect 'PHYSICALLY CLEAN' because we are, then a Guru's Amritdhari being physically and spiritually clean would ALSO expect the cook to be 'SPIRITUALLY CLEAN'.

Thus, sensibly it helps because an amritdhari SHOULD be spiritually clean- remember I say 'SHOULD BE'

Bearing all this in mind, I now realise that it is infact a GOOD DISCIPLINE to keep because we expect to be associated with purity and cleanliness without any negative influences.

Therefore,the person maintaining such rehit has good reasons to, but they are also faced with bigger tests of ego and haumai which they will have to conquer sensibly without judging.

IT's NOT EASY like Only Five ji mentioned and that is the beauty of this discipline !

I hope Sherdilji that you can now see what I mean and why I have done a U-turn and don't deny the purpose of this rehit any longer.

We can see that internal or SPIRITUAL CLEANLINESS is just as important as outward hygiene and that is the sensible reason for this rehit.

[Mehtab Singh]

Out of all the Sikhs around the world, maybe 25% keep kes. Out of that, maybe 10% are amritdhari and 5% keep bibek.

How did such a small percentage come to dictate what "gurmat" Sikhi is?

Just like one Guru Gobind Singh jee selected 5 out of 80,000, and just like those 5 have given Amrit to thousands in a single day over the centuries. Its not numbers that matter here.

I have never tried idol worship or wearing a janeau. How can I claim these are false practices if I have never tried them?

Because Guru Sahib has called these false.

I don't want any ordinary amrit. I want only that amrit which will make it impossible for me to commit any sin or bad deed. In addition to sugar and water, it should contain all the knowledge of gurbani, so that I may absorb it as it passes through my body. If someone can make this amrit for me, then I will rush to take it right away.

First take Amrit, the rest will follow. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither is Gursikhi jeevan, you have to work on it and work hard. Problem is you want a miracle in a split second. Sorry, not gonna happen.

Mehtab Singh ji, you have said many times that you have converted to Sikhi from Hinduism. I respect that a lot. However, I'm not sure what reference point you have outside of those who have lead you down this path. Whatever they have told you, you have come to believe.

I didn't believe anyone except Guru Sahib.

The claim that if one can't make sense of it, then it's because one doesn't have high avastha or is weak, doesn't hold water. That isn't Sikhi. Real Sikhi enlightens even the lowliest moorakhs. You don't need to reach to find meaning.

Why not ask Guru Sahib directly then? Only He is Perfect so He should be the One you need to go to.

[guruvah]

The amount of time "certain" people waste on this forum is enough to do 1 Paath of Sri Sukhmani Sahib a day. ....not to mention the infinite amount of bakwaas that manifest. sigh! am out of this forum for good.

[Mehtab Singh]

Mehtab ji,

That is not a nice or gurmat way of expressing yourself.

You seem to be saying that if you are not on the amrithdhari boat, then shut up because you won't understand.

In all honesty, I'm sure you didn't mean that because I have perceived you as a well respected and sensible member.

I am not at all impressed or can learn anything from this style of attitude!

What else you expect me to do veer? Our friend has been basically mocking Amrit so far, and I do hope he didn't mean to. I am the last person to judge someone based on if they've taken Amrit or not, as I come from a family that is not only non-Amritdhari, but non-Sikh. So I am handicapped to judge anyone based on that reason solely. All we're doing is trying to encourage a brother, but if someone doesn't want to learn and is adamant on calling Guru Sahib's Rehit as "not Gurmat", what other choice is left? I used to have several such questions before I was blessed with Amrit. Now I look back and realize I had no idea back then (maybe I still don't, but still trying to tread the path). Its not a split second process, its a journey, a long one. When you take Amrit, you embark upon it, the destination is reached after constant effort on your part. If I came off as harsh or rude, then I apologize to both of you, and sincerely. My intention wasn't to degrade anyone. I have never humiliated even those who are alcoholics or chain smokers just because they were that way. Bottom line is that if one has to disagree with something, there is a way to do so even if you strongly disagree. I know Amritdharis as well who don't keep Bibek and also disagree with it, some condemn it the same way. I tell them the same thing I told you guys, that if your Panj Pyaare didn't ask you to keep it, then its upto you, but please don't mock this Rehit. Another thing, I am myself not a Bibeki, maybe I don't deserve to be? But I do know what and how much one misses from a spiritual perspective because once upon a time I did try to live by it. Don't take my word for it. Take Amrit and keep Bibek, then come back and tell us how it works out for you. Believe me, its not a joke. One would need massive kirpa of Guru Sahib to even move a step in that direction.

am out of this forum for good.

Thanks