Canadian Desi Media on Meat Eating

[luckysingh99]

Alcohol is a natural by-product of anaerobic fermentation. Chances are pretty good that you are consuming some alcohol when you eat dhaee (yogurt).

Sikhs are not supposed to drink alcohol because it alters your state of mind, and once again leaves no room in your consciousness for God.

Alcohol is not toxic in itself, but too much alcohol is.

Too much vitamin A can also be toxic, but it is not inherently a toxic substance.

Very Good !!

Of course most of us don't even reaslise that our own bodies can also make alcohol and they do !!

Which is why small amounts of alcohol are not toxic, then again small amounts of alcohol don't alter your senses either !!

Chemicals called aldehydes and ketones, break down from many foods and form natural and pure alcohols within our bodies.

So, where does a sikh stand with this ??

Because we should stay away from intoxicants and mind altering substances ???

ANSWER- It is impossible to avoid any tiny content of alcohol in most things.

Because 'alcohol' is also the best preservative for keeping your fruit drinks, medicines,juices..etc.. all with a shelf life more than a couple of days.

They preserve and maintain our foods on the fridge !!

more than 90% of the food in your fridge wil have traces and small volumes of alcohol preservatives in them.

HOWEVER, this small content is nowhere near enough to cause any mind altering state to anyone.

It has absolute neglible effect on one's conscious and state of awareness.

So, it is the intoxicating levels that sikh has to avoid, or if he/she is consuming alcohol just for that affect !!

Remember, the previous versions of Benylin cough medicine had reasonable amounts of ethanol in them. People would drink a few bottles to get drunk.

This means, it is NO EXCUSE for a sikh to be consuming anything similar when it is not for it's intended purpose, therefore if a sikh has taken a life saving medicine for it medicinal purpose and not for it's alcohol satisfaction, then there is NO WRONG.!!!

[gurdssingh]

Im sorry either it is you take it or you don't. Or then don't look down on others. HYPOCRITES - just look at Sikhs from Gurus time, they never ever compromised. Small amonuts is ok! Define small amounts?

[Only five]

1. Living of bark etc. OK. In Guru ji's time I have no views about the Singhs but what about misl period? Please read about the rakhi system etc. The Singhs were just like normal people, they had the same disre for material things.

2. Also inthe Khalsa army under our Guru's they hired mercenaries who were paid, many were muslims were in the army.

3. Sorry this is off topic but don't live in dream land where the Khalsa armies were all saints, just read historical docs from the period. Obviously they are going to baised depending on the authour put you can still get an idea.

1. if some Singhs went off the path that does not mean you should follow in their foot steps. If they want to jump off cliffs and land on dead donkey to their death, do you want to do the same?

2. There is more to it than what is written or heard. No one was paid for a wrong action.

3. If tomorrow a Christian joins up with a Jew because they have a common goal does that make the Christian a Jew now or the Jew a Christain? The fact was that some Muslims and Hindus understood in order to live in peace, without oppression there is one oprressive force that needs to be eliminated. The people of that land worked together to get rid of one enemy. The Muslims didn't become Khalsa or Sikh and same goes for the Sikhs. The Sikhs didn't become Muslims while fighting a common enemy. Or are you against working with other people to reach one common goal of peace?

[gurdssingh]

1. if some Singhs went off the path that does not mean you should follow in their foot steps. If they want to jump off cliffs and land on dead donkey to their death, do you want to do the same?

2. There is more to it than what is written or heard. No one was paid for a wrong action.

3. If tomorrow a Christian joins up with a Jew because they have a common goal does that make the Christian a Jew now or the Jew a Christain? The fact was that some Muslims and Hindus understood in order to live in peace, without oppression there is one oprressive force that needs to be eliminated. The people of that land worked together to get rid of one enemy. The Muslims didn't become Khalsa or Sikh and same goes for the Sikhs. The Sikhs didn't become Muslims while fighting a common enemy. Or are you against working with other people to reach one common goal of peace?

1. What do want to do? (apart from metting me face to face, (chicken) I came from UK to BC)

2. How do you know? Really read histroical accounts from the moguhal scribes, or even independents such as Mushin Fani (Persian)

3. You are wrong. Read Baba Banda Singh Bhahdues account of Sirhind, no muslims became Sikh - really? Just look at the list of converts such as Ali Singh etc.!

[luckysingh99]

Same old debate again that leaves us all arguing like fools.

Fools is what Guru Nanak Ji calls us for arguing about eating meat or not !!

A FEW FACTS-

1) You cannot get excommunicated by akal takht SGPC maryada for eating meat

2) you can get excommunicated for eating halal or other ritually sacrificed meat

3) You can get excommunicated for drinking and smoking tobacco

4) but you cannot get excommunicated for simple no-ritualistic meat consumption !!

What does a sikh do ??

Guru Nanak ji tells us firstly-

ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Mās mās kar mūrakẖ jẖagṛe gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī jāṇai.
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

Then he also tells us-

ਵੇਖੁ ਜਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਕਟਿਆ ਕਟਿ ਕੁਟਿ ਬਧਾ ਪਾਇ ॥
vekẖ jė miṯẖā kati▫ā kat kut baḏẖā pā▫e.
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,

ਖੁੰਢਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਰਖਿ ਕੈ ਦੇਨਿ ਸੁ ਮਲ ਸਜਾਇ ॥
Kẖundẖā anḏar rakẖ kai ḏen so mal sajā▫e.
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.

ਰਸੁ ਕਸੁ ਟਟਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਤਪੈ ਤੈ ਵਿਲਲਾਇ ॥
Ras kas tatar pā▫ī▫ai ṯapai ṯai villā▫e.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.

ਭੀ ਸੋ ਫੋਗੁ ਸਮਾਲੀਐ ਦਿਚੈ ਅਗਿ ਜਾਲਾਇ ॥
Bẖī so fog samālī▫ai ḏicẖai ag jālā▫e.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.

ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਠੈ ਪਤਰੀਐ ਵੇਖਹੁ ਲੋਕਾ ਆਇ ॥੨॥
Nānak miṯẖai paṯrī▫ai vekẖhu lokā ā▫e. ||2||
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||

So he tells us that creation is creation.

The sugar cane also suffers and cries out in pain as it is crushed between the rollers.

The Message-

To me, Gurbani tells me that you make the logical choice.

God has given us the logic and free will to make a choice.

If we feel it is wrong to kill and eat an animal, then don't do it !!

Yet, if we feel it wrong to be killing billions of insects to save the crops of wheat to eat, then don't do it !!

It is ALL about you making the choice.

If one has a simple diet of rice and daal, then they won't worry or debate of what to eat.

But if you complicate it by only getting a taste of pizza if it has pepporoni on it, then it's your own problem and worrying.

No one whether they are veggie or not, gets on the mukhti boat any faster just based on that fact.!!

However, fact is that certain foods come under the tamo, sato and rajo umbrellas, so they will affect a persons spirituality.

But again this varies with everyone, since certain beings a born more spiritual than fellow beings and vice versa.

Do what feels right for you, but don't bring it into or complicate sikhi with it !!

[koonergs]

cba

[luckysingh99]

Im sorry either it is you take it or you don't. Or then don't look down on others. HYPOCRITES - just look at Sikhs from Gurus time, they never ever compromised. Small amonuts is ok! Define small amounts?

Small amounts is no such thing.

I have explained it in the post.- I'm talking about unavoidable amounts used in products and foods all around us in this day and age !!

Your mx fruit salad from the store will contiain very small amounts that even if you ate much more than your meals worth, it would still not affect your brain activity, or simply that it wouldn't show up in your breath on a breathalyzer !!

However, a use of some mouth washes about 30 minutes before will show a small reading on the breathalyzer !!

However, there are other preservatives they can use for mouth washes nowadays, so that's what I would get.

But for things like foods, where there is no problem or issue with alcohol, they don't need to find alternative and expensive preservatives !!

So, what do you think you should do ????

Avoid absolutely everything on this planet that you can, that may have a slight tiny trace of alcohol compound ??

OR do you sensibly avoid any intoxicating and obviouse forms that are widely available ???

[luckysingh99]

Funny how no one has posted the Shabad by Guru Nanak Dev Ji on page 1289 about only fools quarrelling about meat or how nobody has posted the Shabad by Guru Nanak Dev Ji on page 143 about the Sugar Cane feeling pain too. Instead all I see is single lines of Gurbani being taken out of context and being slung around at each other like it's a rap battle. Also funny how a religious forum becomes a scientific community with everyone becoming a nutritionist.

Personally, I have no problem with whatever diet someone chooses to follow. I was a vegetarian before I started taking more of an interest in Sikhi. A lot of us don't have the luxury of growing up in nice, lovey dovey areas where there are lots of other Sikhs around to watch your back. My areas has no Sikhs at all but a large number of a certain community which can be hostile (you know the one I'm talking about). At my Gurdwara you get these guys who live in their fancy areas and go around putting everyone down for not being clean and vegetarian like them yet have no grip on reality. I had to get stronger in order to defend myself and I did so through non-veg and I'm perfectly comfortable that my dietary choice is in line with Gurbani. Before people start giving me nutrition advice, I don't have the time to sit and chew through 5 bowls of daal to get the same amount of nutrition as a steak or chicken breast. Too many chubby, carbed up Singhs giving dietary advice these days.

I think you missed it !!

I had just posted the very 2 shabads(tuks) a few minutes before your post !!

I'm sure you must meditate, because you must have sensed what I did !!

[Only five]

Why do we have to bring Hindu deities into a discussion about meat eating?

Why don't we read Guru Granth Sahib, instead of the Hindu scripture Katha Upanishad?

It doesn't make sense to look towards Hindu scriptures for guidance, and then turn around and say that we are not Hindus.

Scared of reading Vedant scriptures? If you had read some of the Katha Upanishads or read up on Indra you would understand why I mentioned them when speaking about the Bibi in the video. Let me just tell you in brief. Indra was searching deep inside for many years what is Brahmam. After long enduring self-discipline Indra was told by Prajapati that what you see in the mirror is the self (atma). Virocana (demon) got happy and went off skipping into the forest and started telling everyone Brahman is the body. Indra contemplated on this and came to the conclusion, when the body vanishes the self would vanish. Knowing the self is immortal and is Brahman. Indra rejected such stupidity and kept on meditating. However sorry to say the Bibi in the OP's post can't even move past the first step and says the world is Brahman. She reads Gurbani and Gurbani starts off by telling us what Brahman is. Such people have the Guru slapping you in the face what Vaheguru is, but then you turn around and make the same mistake the demon Virocana did. The Bibi in the video obviously thinks shes some great preacher, So to give such people a reality check, who slander and completely disregard Vedant scriptures, they should understand even Vedant scriptures have more spiritual wisdom than them.

Satguru gives guidance to all and there is no need to go outside, but the point is that even Vedant scriptures can teach more about Vaheguru than those who call themselves Sikh preachers.

Satguru said in his 52 Hukams to study other religous texts, but keep your faith in Gurbani.

[Sherdil]

And which "GuruS" used to hunt? Please let me know, as you put it in plural form. What is the historical/literary evidence of this? And if they did hunt, and also ate the meat, please let me know where I can find that information. Also, if they ate the meat, surely 90% of the other Sikhs ate it as well right? So, that means there should be evidence of Sahibzaadey, Panj Pyaarey, Baba Deep Singh Jee, Bhai Mani Singh Jee, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur, Mata Gujjar Kaur Jee eating meat too. Where in literary evidence is this stated? And in what context? In times when nothing else was available? Or did they eat it daily/weekly/monthly?

Guru Gobind Singh ji, Bachitar Natak, Dasam Granth.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

Guru Hargobind ji also used to hunt. Some of his hunts were done alongside Emperor Jahangir.

The following is account of a conflict between Jahangir's son and successor Shah Jahan, and Guru Hargobind ji:

Sikhs while hunting in a Royal preserve trapped a falcon belonging to Shah Jahan and a conflict with imperial forces soon ensued. On the 22 day of Jeth month in Bikrami 1685, Sikhs won this battle. After that victory, the wedding of Bibi Veero, which had been interrupted by the battle, was completed.