Going to Sants

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

This is why so called sants advices sikhs Paath of Sukhmani baani because

it makes sure people don't talk about their manmat practises,

Sant ki ninda and they can be consider brahmgyani.

Brahmgyani in sukhmani is only Guru Arjan Sahib that is my belief.

Brahmgyani does not get photos of Guru painted, that is manmat.

[VanHelsingh]

This is why so called sants advices sikhs Paath of Sukhmani baani because

it makes sure people don't talk about their manmat practises,

Sant ki ninda and they can be consider brahmgyani.

Brahmgyani in sukhmani is only Guru Arjan Sahib that is my belief.

Brahmgyani does not get photos of Guru painted, that is manmat.

That's a very cynical approach to this topic, but I can't disagree with you on the above. Some imposters (who may appear to be the real deal) know full well that Guru-fearing Sikhs have immense love for Gurbani, and when Sukhmani Sahib informs us of what happens to those who partake in nindya of Sants, such imposters realise they will have created a quandary in the minds of some of their sangat who realise their so-called Sant or Baba is against Gurmat but are unable to speak up because of what 5th Paatshah tells us about Sant nindaks. So these individuals play on the devotion of these Sikhs for their Guru whilst simultaneously conducting their crooked activities. Those Sikhs unfortunate enough to be caught up in such vicious cycles I pray they gain the strength to extricate themselves from such destructive situations and fall down in the charan of their True Guru, and beg for forgiveness for wandering from door to door seeking solace in Man.

However those fortunate enough to be doing sangat of genuine, one-in-a-million Sants I salute you and your good karams.

[GPS]

Mahimaa saaDhoo sang kee sunhu mayray meetaa

mail kho-ee kot agh haray nirmal bha-ay cheetaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

This is the Glory of the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; listen, O my friends.

Filth is washed away, millions of sins are dispelled, and the consciousness becomes immaculate and pure. ||1||Pause|| (p809)

[luckysingh99]

Guru Nanak Ji emphasised the importance of Grihasti jeevan and to live as a householder whilst becoming a gurmukh.

He strongly advised that one does not need to break away from the maya world but to just rise above it,.Since we all have to cross the Maya world ocean to get across,-there is no other way !!!

Remember the 3 pillars of a sikh's lfe-

1)Naam japna

2)Kirat karna

3)Vand shaka

These are ALL a MUST

2) Kirat karna-kirat kamayee, doesn't just mean earn an honest living.

It ALSO MEANS to EARN the ROTI you eat.!

Earning your roti is only done by 'labour' of some sort in this world where one is paid a monetary sum.

This is where I want to make MY point and opinion about Babey shabey and so called sant, brahmgyanis..etc..

They rely on their ROTI courtesy of sangat donations ONLY.

They don't ever go out and earn a pound/rupee/dollar like the sangat that feeds them.

WHERE IS THE KIRAT KAMAYEE ??

I don't mind the very few that are only famous on a local level because they do preach/teach/advise and at the same time they earn their own buck.

But these honest few just stay at a local level and never get mainstream attention because they don't go on rock star style 'world tours' to promote themselves either !!

This is why you never hear about them on a national or international level.

Because they stay within that local sangat whilst they earn and feed themselves.

There are too many Baba sant mants that enjoy their 1st class flights and have a dozen chelas similar to rock star entourages.

They get whisked from the airports to their venues and gigs that end up like sold out gurdwara diwan concerts !!

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I have no time for these kinds in my sacred gurmat path.

As we ALL know that they get plenty of cash from sangat donations, when did any one of them make a majority contribution back into society to help people ???

I mean real people, real gareeb and poor underpriveleged citizens ??

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥

Salok Ma 1 ||

ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੀਤ ॥

Giaan Vihoonaa Gaavai Geeth ||

The one who lacks spiritual wisdom sings religious songs.

ਭੁਖੇ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਘਰੇ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥

Bhukhae Mulaan Gharae Maseeth ||

The hungry Mullah turns his home into a mosque.

ਮਖਟੂ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਕੰਨ ਪੜਾਏ ॥

Makhattoo Hoe Kai Kann Parraaeae ||

The lazy unemployed has his ears pierced to look like a Yogi.

ਫਕਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਵਾਏ ॥

Fakar Karae Hor Jaath Gavaaeae ||

Someone else becomes a pan-handler, and loses his social status.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਸਦਾਏ ਮੰਗਣ ਜਾਇ ॥

Gur Peer Sadhaaeae Mangan Jaae ||

One who calls himself a guru or a spiritual teacher, while he goes around begging

ਤਾ ਕੈ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਲਗੀਐ ਪਾਇ ॥

Thaa Kai Mool N Lageeai Paae ||

- don't ever touch his feet.

ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥

Ghaal Khaae Kishh Hathhahu Dhaee ||

One who works for what he eats, and gives some of what he has

ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥੧॥

Naanak Raahu Pashhaanehi Saee ||1||

- O Nanak, he knows the Path. ||1||

[VanHelsingh]

Guru Nanak Ji emphasised the importance of Grihasti jeevan and to live as a householder whilst becoming a gurmukh.

He strongly advised that one does not need to break away from the maya world but to just rise above it,.Since we all have to cross the Maya world ocean to get across,-there is no other way !!!

Remember the 3 pillars of a sikh's lfe-

1)Naam japna

2)Kirat karna

3)Vand shaka

These are ALL a MUST

2) Kirat karna-kirat kamayee, doesn't just mean earn an honest living.

It ALSO MEANS to EARN the ROTI you eat.!

Earning your roti is only done by 'labour' of some sort in this world where one is paid a monetary sum.

This is where I want to make MY point and opinion about Babey shabey and so called sant, brahmgyanis..etc..

They rely on their ROTI courtesy of sangat donations ONLY.

They don't ever go out and earn a pound/rupee/dollar like the sangat that feeds them.

WHERE IS THE KIRAT KAMAYEE ??

I don't mind the very few that are only famous on a local level because they do preach/teach/advise and at the same time they earn their own buck.

But these honest few just stay at a local level and never get mainstream attention because they don't go on rock star style 'world tours' to promote themselves either !!

This is why you never hear about them on a national or international level.

Because they stay within that local sangat whilst they earn and feed themselves.

There are too many Baba sant mants that enjoy their 1st class flights and have a dozen chelas similar to rock star entourages.

They get whisked from the airports to their venues and gigs that end up like sold out gurdwara diwan concerts !!

I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I have no time for these kinds in my sacred gurmat path.

As we ALL know that they get plenty of cash from sangat donations, when did any one of them make a majority contribution back into society to help people ???

I mean real people, real gareeb and poor underpriveleged citizens ??

You see, what you've written above cannot be argued or disputed. It is, on the whole, a fair and honest assessment of some modern-day saints. I'm also inclined to agree with you that the unsung, uncelebrated ('gupt' if you will) individuals who possess all the saintly attributes as described by 5th Paathshah in Sukhmani Sahib are more likely to be the closest ideal of holy men (or women) compared to those who seem to revel in the attention their status affords them. The trend of the religious entourage amongst so-called saints is something that simultaneously baffles and angers me. The use of the word 'jatha' to lend legitimacy to such practices is also insulting to the genuine members of a jatha who do not dramatically sweep around in that laughably inflated sense of self-importance. At what point does the saint tell these hangers-on to leave him in peace? Why does one who considers himself spiritually elevated only rest at the homes of the luxuriously well-to-do and well-connected? All these questions need to be asked of those who purport to be men of God, but display behaviour which suggests otherwise.

However, Singh Ji, surely you must acknowledge there are some blessed individuals whose sole purpose is to guide and assist people in matters of spirituality? What if, for arguments sake, Waheguru provides for these individuals through such donations from the working man because somehow their karams dictate they deserve such - for want of a better word - gifts? I know I'm probably mixing real-world realities with unquantifiable aspects of the divine, but I'd also really like to comprehend this issue. However, I don't think discounting the efforts of such wonderful saints like the oft-mentioned personalities from Nanaksar and Taksal (as well as non-affiliated independents) should be dismissed so easily.

On a broader note I was reading a book on the "real" India, and there's a line in the introduction from the Indian author which summarises wonderfully the modern-day view of religion and spirituality that had me nodding my head in agreement. The author writes of Indians (and, yes, that includes us even if we don't think of ourself as Indians): "Their spirituality, although lofty in its metaphysics, is in religious practice mostly a means to harness divine support for power and pelf." Looking around us Sikhs, and it's hard to disagree with the above, and when so-called saints epitomise such behaviour you really do begin to wonder where it all went wrong. The sad thing is WE are to blame for enabling such behaviour from the apparently holy. We embolden these individuals for our own selfish gain, so much so that when a genuine jewel emerges we paint him with the same strokes as the fraudulent types of which there are many.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

You see, what you've written above cannot be argued or disputed. It is, on the whole, a fair and honest assessment of some modern-day saints. I'm also inclined to agree with you that the unsung, uncelebrated ('gupt' if you will) individuals who possess all the saintly attributes as described by 5th Paathshah in Sukhmani Sahib are more likely to be the closest ideal of holy men (or women) compared to those who seem to revel in the attention their status affords them. The trend of the religious entourage amongst so-called saints is something that simultaneously baffles and angers me. The use of the word 'jatha' to lend legitimacy to such practices is also insulting to the genuine members of a jatha who do not dramatically sweep around in that laughably inflated sense of self-importance. At what point does the saint tell these hangers-on to leave him in peace? Why does one who considers himself spiritually elevated only rest at the homes of the luxuriously well-to-do and well-connected? All these questions need to be asked of those who purport to be men of God, but display behaviour which suggests otherwise.

However, Singh Ji, surely you must acknowledge there are some blessed individuals whose sole purpose is to guide and assist people in matters of spirituality? What if, for arguments sake, Waheguru provides for these individuals through such donations from the working man because somehow their karams dictate they deserve such - for want of a better word - gifts? I know I'm probably mixing real-world realities with unquantifiable aspects of the divine, but I'd also really like to comprehend this issue. However, I don't think discounting the efforts of such wonderful saints like the oft-mentioned personalities from Nanaksar and Taksal (as well as non-affiliated independents) should be dismissed so easily.

On a broader note I was reading a book on the "real" India, and there's a line in the introduction from the Indian author which summarises wonderfully the modern-day view of religion and spirituality that had me nodding my head in agreement. The author writes of Indians (and, yes, that includes us even if we don't think of ourself as Indians): "Their spirituality, although lofty in its metaphysics, is in religious practice mostly a means to harness divine support for power and pelf." Looking around us Sikhs, and it's hard to disagree with the above, and when so-called saints epitomise such behaviour you really do begin to wonder where it all went wrong. The sad thing is WE are to blame for enabling such behaviour from the apparently holy. We embolden these individuals for our own selfish gain, so much so that when a genuine jewel emerges we paint him with the same strokes as the fraudulent types of which there are many.

Until unless most of the sikhs do not does paath of Guru Granth Sahib and read their history this problem is bound to increase.

Every sikh should learn Gurbani grammar and do paath of Guru Granth Sahib at least 4-5 times

and that too in a speed where one can understand gurbani.

[GPS]

Until unless most of the sikhs do not does paath of Guru Granth Sahib and read their history this problem is bound to increase.

Every sikh should learn Gurbani grammar and do paath of Guru Granth Sahib at least 4-5 times

and that too in a speed where one can understand gurbani.

There are many who are not able to read Sri Guru Granth sahib? Are they debarred from realizing God? Answer yes or no. No beating about bush.

[GPS]

His Mark on My Soul ... The Way of the Sikh:

Letter & Spirit # 26YUKTANAND SINGH

http://sikhchic.com/faith/his_mark_on_my_soul_the_way_of_the_sikh_letter_spirit_26

Translated from Bhai Vir Singh's ‘Gurmukh Sikhia’

Part XVI

On an early morning of April 1952, sitting on a chair in the garden at a dear gurmukh’s residence, Bhai Sahib said this in response to some questions:

When the haumai is removed, then Waheguru Himself comes and resides in a seeker’s heart. Where there is a vacuum, mere air spontaneously enters and occupies that space. God wants to reside in our heart but we need to make space for Him.

Waheguru yearns for his children to return to him, but we are so tangled and preoccupied with the world that we have forgotten this.

In one manner, naam is a practice. But naam is also perfection. Naam is living power. Thus, naam is a path as well as our destination. The path turns into its fulfillment with the help of singing of kirtan and pondering His praise.

Just as when a boy and a girl fall in love and they develop a special attraction and desire for each other. We need to develop similar love and attraction for Waheguru.

With constant naam simran we start to get random glimpses of Waheguru’s presence. Naam, then, becomes a living force, and we start to see Waheguru, who always sees us and listens to our prayers, as very close to us.

We cannot see Waheguru with these eyes, but we can feel the glimpse or reflection of His presence. Repeating Waheguru’s naam is a great boon and we receive it only from His own mercy.

Waheguru Himself makes us repeat His naam:

“Without worry, naam has come to abide in my heart” [GGS:798.9]

This is also a hint that repetition of naam must be accompanied by gratitude, thanking Him for making us repeat His naam. Naam simran is practiced with humility. Naam is greater and it is always more than what we have received so far.

Guru Arjan lived in naam. Despite being established in the perfection of naam, he prayed for naam at the conclusion of Guru Granth Sahib with these words:

“O Nanak, I will live when I am blessed with naam, then will my body and mind bloom” [GGS: 1429]

Talk of knowledge is cheap. But if tears well up in our eyes when we utter words like, ‘Dhann Guru Nanak’ (Glory be to Guru Nanak!) we should feel fortunate. We, then, have a priceless gift. When the Guru has taken you in his lap then we are bound to, eventually, have the gift of divine knowledge from Waheguru.

A mother does not just hand out money to a fakir. When the fakir asks for alms to bless her child, she waves the money over her child for blessing (folk lore) and then gives it. Similarly, Waheguru melts over Guru Nanak’s love and for this, gives us the gift of naam.

Every scholar of vedanta considers himself God-realized these days, but loss of even a couple of dollars easily disturbs him for a long time. It is easy to read some great book and call oneself a divine scholar but it is not easy to find true knowledge.

Love of Guru Nanak is a gift from Waheguru:

“In the Lord's service is the greatest treasure.

Serving the Lord, the ambrosial naam is fed into our mouth.

The Lord is my companion; He is with me as my friend.

During pain or pleasure, He is present wherever I remember Him

How can the poor messenger of death frighten me now?

The Lord is my support; the Lord is my strength.

The Lord is my friend; He is my counsel within my heart” [GGS:375.6]

Bhai Sahib explained this shabad. Waheguru’s living naam makes us aware of His presence, and then Waheguru is seen as our friend as well as the justice who sits in a court and listens to our complaints.

Then he mentioned this shabad: “My Lord was merciful to me in His court of truth. O brother, the true Guru abolished the fever; the whole world is now at peace. The Lord Himself protects his beings and creatures; the messenger of death had to close his shop” [GGS:620.9].

Bhai Sahib explained how Guru Arjan eliminated illness for the entire town with the power of naam, but he did not take credit for it. No other prophet has shown such humility. There is no limit to how proud of our Guru we can be.

When the living naam resides in someone’s heart, it cannot be kept secret. It reveals itself on the forehead of that person.

“When the secret jewel was found, it was revealed right on the forehead. O Nanak, how beautiful is that place where you reside, O my beloved” [GGS:1096.15]

Our Guru has taught us ‘sehaj vairaag’ or natural renunciation. Everyone loves their spouse, children and family. The Guru teaches us to change the direction of that love towards the Guru. This will generate spontaneous dispassion towards the world. Mere renouncing the world is against human nature.

When we die we cannot take anything with us. Our family and friends, all are left behind. Only naam goes with the soul. Just as an army officer is recognized by his uniform, those who wear the badge of naam are welcomed and they are respected in the afterlife. Even the messenger of death respects them.

Those who are not branded with naam, they have to face suffering. We should make our life worth-while by doing naam simran so that when we die, we will enter our Lord’s court with the mark of His naam on our forehead.

“nadri karam pavai nisaan” [Japji] - “Through His benevolent sight and through His mercy one gets branded with His mark.”

Let this teachings dwell in our heart and let us earn a lot of wealth through intense naam simran.

“Infamy is erased, we are honored in the world, and we are given a seat in our Lord’s court. Fear of death is destroyed in an instant, and we return home in peace and in bliss” [GGS:500.9]

March 19, 2013

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

There are many who are not able to read Sri Guru Granth sahib? Are they debarred from realizing God? Answer yes or no. No beating about bush.

Answer was Dhanna jat. You forgot quickly.