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One thing we need to realize is the youth have power and if we stick together missionary uncles won't be able to stand forever.

I realized that if you're right and know the subject (in this case Dhunda's shady character) you can sit on a one on one with a dhunda supporter (even if he's a pardhan of a Gurdwara that called Dhunda) and tell him the truth and he will just sit there and listen.

I had a similar thing happen to me recently and the uncle was more surprised than anything and I could tell he was a bit bitter about the whole thing and he kind of nodded his head in semi agreement because he had nothing to say back, but I know he still hasn't changed his mind. Paranoia and brainwashing is called just that because they are beyond logic and reason.

When there is a gridlock the youth need to ensure all organizations are on the same page and don't cater to or allow such manmat to be spread into the panth.

As many people already know Sikhri already has missionary leanings and it's confirmed with the image below. I know Jakara here in California is down with SikhRI - perhaps youth need to get together and confront any organization that caters to people like Sikhri. I have nothing against Harinder Singh as he is well versed in the political framework of the world, but in terms of spirituality and the shady ideology that has been discussed in the past I don't think he should be entertained.

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I not met a sant either. I know we should respect the mahapursh, but even when i seen ppl who call them sants, didnt really feel much. Just like normal people. If there was so much they are praised for they can do, then how come they cannot get rid of my dukh? Then comes the issue of not asking for worldly things.

If Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is there to guide us, what do they do exactly, and why they get so much special treatment? This is wat i dont understand. Why will they only go to those peoples houses they prefer to? Mostly with money ones. Why dont they sit on normal sofa or floor like everybody else when they just been doing it ten mins ago in the car or where they came from? Why dont they stop it and say no i will be same as you and sit with you?

They are not god, and the real sants will never show they are different, or say they want to be treated that way. Even if they do meet people, why are people always scared of them as to what they say, and would not be from the granthi and not care how they talk in sangat, but its a big deal in front of them.

I have heard Babaji Nand Singh ji, never let women in front of them without a man present being either her father brother husband or somebody she would know. So how come now women do all this cheow meooww drama nowadays, and fill their egos? Dont people learn from the past?

Worldly tours are good i think as they are teaching people and guiding them right way, i love how kirtani jathe or knowledgeable person comes from India to uk, to do that. I learn more this way, but i dont like the over special treatment that is applied, and worship kind of mentality that is given. Ok respect i agree but our Gurus taught us too everybody is equal, and to me i would include sants and mahapursh too. Respect yes, but worship no.

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Please tell me that's not true!

Sadly it is. This was many years ago. From what I know the family in question still feel obliged to hold an Akhand Paat each year lest their little bundle of joy gets run over by a car or something horrible like that. That still doesn't stop them holding a birthday party for the little sprog where the sharaab flows like tap water and maas is consumed like cavemen use to. What a strange way of thanking Waheguru for giving them a child.

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Guru Sahib sheds some light on the subject.

Guru Nanak dev ji, Raag Saarang, Pannaa 1245, Salok, First Mehla:

gur peer sadhaaeae ma(n)gan jaae ||
One who calls himself a guru or a spiritual teacher, while he goes around begging
thaa kai mool n lageeai paae ||
- don't ever touch his feet.
ghaal khaae kishh hathhahu dhaee ||
One who works for what he eats, and gives some of what he has
naanak raahu pashhaanehi saee ||1||
- O Nanak, he knows the Path. ||1||
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Sant, Gurmukh, Sadhu, Brumhgiani, are the names Vaheguru gives to his

beloved children who follow Baghti Mahrag learnt from fellow Sants to pass through Bav Sagar to Sach Khand/Nigjh Kar

sa(n)th sehaaee raam kae kar kirapaa dheeaa milaae ||

The Saints, the Lord's helpers, in their mercy, have united me with Him.

This path originated from Sat Guru who opened the gates to Naam.

bin sathigur ko naao n paaeae prabh aisee banath banaaeehae ||9||

Without the True Guru, no one finds the Name. Such is the making which God has made. ||9||

sathigur thae paaeae veechaaraa ||

From the True Guru, contemplative meditation is obtained.

su(n)n samaadhh sachae ghar baaraa ||

And then, one dwells with the True Lord in His celestial home, the Primal State of Absorption in Deepest Samaadhi.

People should not take this lightly this the decree of Vaheguru himself, that no one can obtain Naam unless through Sat Guru, there are implications to this, manly no Sant, Sandhu Gurmukh are able to give Naam, it is not within their ability to do so, though they can take you direct to Sat Guru, only if the thirst within that Beloved Sikh is at this state

kabeer birahu bhuya(n)gam man basai ma(n)th n maanai koe ||

Kabeer, the snake of separation from the Lord abides within my mind; it does not respond to any mantra.

raam biougee naa jeeai jeeai th bouraa hoe ||76||

One who is separated from the Lord does not live; if he does live, he goes insane. ||76||

har milanai no man lochadhaa karam milaavanehaar ||

My mind yearns to meet the Lord. If only He would show His Mercy, and unite me with

Himself!

Those within this state of deep separation where sleep, food is forgotten, Sants within their mercy can unite those with Sat Guru

sa(n)th sehaaee raam kae kar kirapaa dheeaa milaae ||
The Saints, the Lord's helpers, in their mercy, have united me with Him.

sa(n)th sehaaee praem kae ho thin kai laagaa paae ||

The Saints are the helpers of the Lord's lovers; I fall and touch their feet.

Over time people have become very sceptical/cynical of the term Saints, so they should, this is what is within Guru Bani about Fake Sant/Saadhs

Sant Anardi kich Na Bujia Kathni Karia Maya Nall Lugi

Fake Sants will not be able to decvifer the truth, and will fixate on wealth

We have been told that there will be imposters who see the congregation as a quick and easy mode of income,

bahuthae bhaekh karai bhaekhadhhaaree ||

The disguisers put on their various disguises.

a(n)thar thisanaa firai aha(n)kaaree ||

Desire rages within them, and they carry on egotistically.

aap n cheenai baajee haaree ||6||

They do not understand themselves, and they lose the game of life. ||6||

kaaparr pehir karae chathuraaee ||

Putting on religious robes, they act so clever,

maaeiaa mohi ath bharam bhulaaee ||

but they are totally deluded by doubt and emotional attachment to Maya.

But cynicism should lead to inquire not closed a mind; we nor learn or reveal but through inquiry.

Bani talks of the domain of Sargun which is out of our understanding; we can then say we only have the tools, which are revealed by Guru Granth Shaib Jee, in which

-What Sants mean to Sat Guru and what they say about their beloved Sants

- What their Role is

-Also how we tell the difference between Fake and Real

Guru Guru Arjan Dev Jee on Saints

Gauree, Fifth Mehla:

sa(n)th kee dhhoor mittae agh kott ||

Millions of sins are wiped away by the dust of the feet of the Saints.

sa(n)th prasaadh janam maran thae shhott ||1||

By the Grace of the Saints, one is released from birth and death. ||1||

sa(n)th kaa dharas pooran eisanaan ||

The Blessed Vision of the Saints is the perfect cleansing bath.

sa(n)th kirapaa thae japeeai naam ||1|| rehaao ||

By the Grace of the Saints, one comes to chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

sa(n)th kai sa(n)g mittiaa aha(n)kaar ||

In the Society of the Saints, egotism is shed,

ho balihaaree saajanaa meethaa avareethaa ||2||

I am a sacrifice to my pure friends, the immaculate Saints. ||2||

This is the importance of Sat Sangat, millions of sins are wiped in the sangat of Saints.

-What is the roll of Sant

sa(n)th kee saevaa naam dhhiaaeeai ||

Serving the Saint, one meditates on the Naam.

In the congregation we learn how to meditate on Vaheguru which is the only freedom from Maya and liberation. It is important to know the technique to meditating

dhhun mehi dhhiaan dhhiaan mehi jaaniaa guramukh akathh kehaanee ||3||

Through concentration on the sound (gurmantar) knowledge is attained, Gurmukhs have explained this through the teachings of Akathh.

How we tell the difference between Fake Sants

Guru sahib states who takes the title sant and does Akaath Katha should be at this avasta and be able;

1. Tell the story of God and lead you through bav sagar to Sachkhand

giaan dhhiaan dhhun jaaneeai akathh kehaavai soe

One with Knowledge, supreme stillness of mind void of maya (thoughts) and able to hear Naam is able to give knowledge of Akathh (God)

thath thael naam keeaa baathee dheepak dhaeh oujyaaraa ||
With the oil of knowledge about the essence of reality, and the wick of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, this lamp illluminates my body.

To add to this sant has the permission of God to tell the story of Nirgun and Sargun, and been instructed

what avasta he has achieved, must passed to Gur Sangat, through practical meditation

Sant will practically show you the path, take you to Naam if they wish, if you have the thirst mentioned in the shabad above,

very few will, they then work to instil that love we have lost due to our attachment with maya

maadhhavae kiaa keheeai bhram aisaa ||

O Lord, what can I say about such an illusion?

jaisaa maaneeai hoe n thaisaa ||1|| rehaao ||

Things are not as they seem. ||1||Pause||

Audio of this shabad being sung Bhai Balbir Singh.

Insight on Akath Katha

If asked what the Mind is could we say we know, where Sachkhand is, where

Chitar Gupt place is, what Vaheguru looks like, where the Mind stays? its in this state of

blindness the Sants start Akath from our Mool (origin)

eaehu sareer sabh mool hai maaeiaa ||

This bodys origins/source is Maya;

dhoojai bhaae bharam bhulaaeiaa ||

in love with duality, it is deluded by doubt.

Then explaining what the relationship between the Mind, Punj Choor, to Kaal, chitar Gupt, Daram Raja, Dhoots, Atma are. We are then taught how to win this Game of love, the game in we were sent to play

kaam krodhh lobh mohu jeethahu aisee khael har piaaree ||2||

Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game

as this is dear to the Lord. ||2||

If we play Guru Jee says;

jan naanak guramukh jo nar khaelai so jin baajee ghar aaeiaa ||4||1||19||

O servant Nanak, that person who plays this game as Gurmukh, wins the game of life, and returns to his true home. ||4||1||19||

These are some of the basics of what Sat Guru has left us in a vast Knowledge library within Gurbani,

we learn that without having someone who has himself seen spoken to Vaheguru it is impossible to defeat

Punj Choor or even start to understand what the Unseen world consist of this is the importance of Mahapurkhs.

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How would somebody like me with little knowledge be able to recognise a real Sant?

I thought it was simple but seem to be getting confused. So this is wat i have decided to do.

Not to worry about who is real and who is fake, as to somebody else they maybe real and to others maybe fake.

Its so hard to tell the difference that i give up trying to distinguish and just stick to listening to kirtan n paat.

And leave the rest to god, to lead me in the path of right people.

And not listen to too many stories, and to keep my mouth shut is best thing i think.

Sorryji if i said anything wrong regarding Sants/Mahapurshs, but it only meant for the fake ones, as it isis hard for western country born to recognise.

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How would somebody like me with little knowledge be able to recognise a real Sant? I thought it was simple but seem to be getting confused. So this is wat i have decided to do. Not to worry about who is real and who is fake, as to somebody else they maybe real and to others maybe fake. Its so hard to tell the difference that i give up trying to distinguish and just stick to listening to kirtan n paat. And leave the rest to god, to lead me in the path of right people. And not listen to too many stories, and to keep my mouth shut is best thing i think. Sorryji if i said anything wrong regarding Sants/Mahapurshs, but it only meant for the fake ones, as it isis hard for western country born to recognise.

Look at the company (or the type of sevadaars he has around him) the sant / mahapurash keeps. That's usually a good indication of what's going on.

Also, at the risk of sounding all Jedi, search your feelings. What does your hirda tell you? If you feel uneasy is it because this individual will help you and attempt to put you straight (and thus your unconscious mind is rebelling against this change even though it is ultimately positive in the long-run), or is this fella going to take you for a ride and your insides are telling you to run a mile?

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बिलावलु ॥

Bilāval.

Bilaaval:

नित उठि कोरी गागरि आनै लीपत जीउ गइओ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ताना बाना कछू न सूझै हरि हरि रसि लपटिओ ॥१॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

हमारे कुल कउने रामु कहिओ ॥

Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o.

Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord?

जब की माला लई निपूते तब ते सुखु न भइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause||

सुनहु जिठानी सुनहु दिरानी अचरजु एकु भइओ ॥

Sunhu jiṯẖānī sunhu ḏirānī acẖraj ek bẖa▫i▫o.

Listen, O my sisters-in-law, a wondrous thing has happened!

सात सूत इनि मुडींए खोए इहु मुडीआ किउ न मुइओ ॥२॥

Sāṯ sūṯ in mudīʼne kẖo▫e ih mudī▫ā ki▫o na mu▫i▫o. ||2||

This boy has ruined our weaving business. Why didn't he simply die? ||2||

सरब सुखा का एकु हरि सुआमी सो गुरि नामु दइओ ॥

Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o.

O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name.

संत प्रहलाद की पैज जिनि राखी हरनाखसु नख बिदरिओ ॥३॥

Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3||

He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3||

घर के देव पितर की छोडी गुर को सबदु लइओ ॥

Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o.

I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

कहत कबीरु सगल पाप खंडनु संतह लै उधरिओ ॥४॥४॥

Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4||

Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4||
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