Master Tara Singh

[S4NGH]

Although the best thing for Sikhs would have been their own state. However, some times I do think joining Pakistan would have been better for us. We knew from the beginning that Muslims are our enemy, so we would have never trusted them like Hindus. Chances of us getting massacred by them would have been less because we would have been more prepared. Moreover, we would have never joined Pakistan without getting concessions. Also, these concessions would have been in writing (read constitution ), not what we did with Nehru and Gandhi. And, our population compared to Muslims would have been better percent wise, unlike India where we are less than 2 percent. That is just a thought, still being with Muslims would have been an issue, but Sikhs are better at fighting the enemy they know and not good with the one who act like a friend.

Muslims are not our enemies. Never were.

[S4NGH]

Facts:

From day one to date, around 50,000- 75,000 Sikhs have died at the hands of muslims.

From 1947 to date, 100,000 PLUS have died at the hands of our hindu brothers whom we stand united with.

[S4NGH]

Master tara singh was also a founding member of the vishva hindu parishad. A nationalist hindu organisation based on the ideology of hindutva. Very closely associated to the bjp and rss.

[VanHelsingh]

Considering what we've been put through the past 60odd years, my answer would be Pakistan.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

[Jonny101]

Facts:

From day one to date, around 50,000- 75,000 Sikhs have died at the hands of muslims.

From 1947 to date, 100,000 PLUS have died at the hands of our hindu brothers whom we stand united with.

correction: Atleast 200,000 Sikhs died in 1947 alone. Many Sikh genocides have occurred at the hands of Muslims. In the 1700s alone about hundreds of thousands of Sikhs were killed through various genocide at the hands of Mulsims.

I've known Muslims all my life. I have Muslim friends since childhood. But I've noticed that Sikhs and Muslims get along with each other as long as they are on equal footing or if Sikhs have the upper hand. But if Muslims get the upper hand then they begin to mistreat us. Now the thing with Hindus. Sikhs and Hindus generally get along with each other, many even marry with each other and have rishtedari with each other. Hindus are especially good when they are your co slaves, but if they get power, they will also get drunk with power, they will forget all the sacrifices you have done for them in the past history.

Lesson for us and future generations is that if we come across such a situation where circumstances are favorable for us to establish Sikh Raaj, then we need to seize such an opportunity for the sake of future Sikh generations because we've lived under Islamic rule and Hindu rule and both have been a bad experience in which Sikhs have experienced genocide. The best time we had was when we lived under our own Raaj. In fact under Sikh Raaj(in Punjab, Kashmir and NW Frontier) neither Hindus nor Muslims were persecuted by the Sikhs. In Sikh Raaj, there was never any Hindu-Muslim riots nor any Shia Sunni violence as we see today under Hindu and Muslim Raaj of India and Pakistan.

[Mehtab Singh]

Considering what we've been put through the past 60odd years, my answer would be Pakistan.

So you would move to Pakistan for good next month if you had no other option to go to?

[Hindustani]

Considering what we've been put through the past 60odd years, my answer would be Pakistan.

You are on the wrong side of history. Minorities want to leave Pakistan not live in it.

Although the best thing for Sikhs would have been their own state. However, some times I do think joining Pakistan would have been better for us. We knew from the beginning that Muslims are our enemy, so we would have never trusted them like Hindus. Chances of us getting massacred by them would have been less because we would have been more prepared. Moreover, we would have never joined Pakistan without getting concessions. Also, these concessions would have been in writing (read constitution ), not what we did with Nehru and Gandhi. And, our population compared to Muslims would have been better percent wise, unlike India where we are less than 2 percent. That is just a thought, still being with Muslims would have been an issue, but Sikhs are better at fighting the enemy they know and not good with the one who act like a friend.

The constitution is only good if followed and enforced.

BTW, Jinnah admits on his death bed to Time Magazine that Pakistan was the biggest mistake of his life.

[S4NGH]

So you would move to Pakistan for good next month if you had no other option to go to?

Thats what i said the first time round.

You are on the wrong side of history. Minorities want to leave Pakistan not live in it.

The constitution is only good if followed and enforced.

BTW, Jinnah admits on his death bed to Time Magazine that Pakistan was the biggest mistake of his life.

The choice was between india n pakistan.

[UKLondonSikh]

Master tara was a hindu for the mojority of his life, had a hindu upbringing, converted to Sikhi much later in lafe, obviously he was going to side with the hindus.

UK = Sangha, Master Tara Singh was more Sikh than you or I could ever be. Would you make the same accusation against Bhai Lehna Ji?

If it wasn't for Mastar Tara Singh, today Punjab would have been part of Pakistan. And for that, most of his family was butchered during partition. Being born into another faith has nothing to do with one's loyalty. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was born and raised as a Hindu before he converted to Sikhi and became the leader of the Sikh Qaum and established the first Sikh Raaj. Prof Sahib Singh Jee was born a Hindu before becoming a Sikh and becoming one of the greatest Sikh scholars. Besides former Hindus, you will even find many examples of Sikhs who were former Muslims, but lived and died as Sikhs.

On the other side of the spectrum, Badal, KPS Gill, Gen Brar, Dayal etc are born and raised as Sikhs, yet we know where their loyalties lie.

UK = Excellently said Jonny Paji (as usual)

No he is right. Its a mistake to trust people coming into Sikhi from other non-Sikh backgrounds, especially Hindus. They can never be trusted and should never be given any sort of leadership roles. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and Prof Sahib Singh just happened to be a blessing, but otherwise Hindus who become Sikhs should never be trusted as they most likely always have an agenda. Only those who are born in Sikh families and raised throughout their life as Sikhs should have the right to lead the qaum.

UK = The sad thing is Mehtab Paji is that the same wretched disgraces who hold such opinions don't realise that they thereby disqualify themselves as Sikhs ... since Sikhi isn't acquired via birth > but by belief and sincere convictions and actions!

Maybe we would have been better off with Pakistan.

Was it not Jinnah who told the Sikh leaders to ask the british for a seperate Sikh homeland as the hindus could not be trusted?

Tara Singh sided with the hindus because he had an alligence with them. Im not saying he was wrong. Or write. What happened, happened. But its obvious he would have been inclined to side with the hindus as he came from that background.

UK = Sangha let's do some simple mathematics as obviously English is not your forte. More than 20% of the Sikh population was killed off in Pakistan in 1947. In India, during the Congress inflicted Genocide of Sikhs around 1% of the Sikh population was killed off. Even the death of a single Sikh (or any innocent human being) is unforgiveable but according to which Genocidal Criteria do you declare Pakistan to be a better place for Sikhs to have gone to in 1947? It's like saying Nazi Germany was a better place for Jews compared to New York City due to anti-semitism present in NYC in the 1980's.

Considering what we've been put through the past 60odd years, my answer would be Pakistan.

UK = Given that the Punjabi Muslims (who were never your enemies but are your beloved friends in Huddersfield and other wonderful parts of Yorskire like Bradford) killed off 20% of the Sikh population in Pakistan in 1947, you're arguing that the Indira+Rajiv orchestrated Genocide of Sikhs was as bad as the equivalent of 5million plus Sikhs being killed off in 1947 by Pakistani Muslims.

Facts:

From day one to date, around 50,000- 75,000 Sikhs have died at the hands of muslims.

From 1947 to date, 100,000 PLUS have died at the hands of our hindu brothers whom we stand united with.

UK = 75,000 to 100,000 Sikhs were killed in the earlier vada+cchota Muslim GhalluGhara's of Sikhs when over 50% of our Panth's population at those times was murdered in Genocide by Muslims prior to the existence of the apartheid (Islamic) state of Pakistan.

UK = Nobody stands united with the murderers of Sikhs but no I certainly don't hold 99% of innocent Hindu's guilty for the Indira+Rajiv orchestrated Genocide of Sikhs. 99% plus of all Punjabi Muslims vehemently supported Jinnah and the Muslim League's aims to ethnically cleanse all Sikhs from Pakistan (and indeed Amritsar, Jalandhar and Ludhiana too had our Qaum not had the balanced demographics with Muslims that we did in 1947 in Doaba, Malwa and Majha)

Master tara singh was also a founding member of the vishva hindu parishad. A nationalist hindu organisation based on the ideology of hindutva. Very closely associated to the bjp and rss.

[Mehtab Singh]

ATTARI: Despite Pakistan's government's repeated assurances of instilling a sense of security among its minority communities, the Hindus of Pakistan continue to bear the wrath of fundamentalists and are still being persecuted on the basis of their religion.

Though a majority of them are tight-lipped upon arriving in India fearing punishment back home if they criticize their own government, a few prefer to vent their anger fanned by constant humiliation.

Daulat Ram is one such person who is fed up of the daily humiliation by radicals in Pakistan and is willing to migrate to India if he finds a business opportunity here. "Nothing is well there. We are forced to live like animals and keep our mouth shut," he said adding that they (fundamentalists) come to their houses and places of work carrying Kalashnikovs and plunder whatever they have. "They take away ornaments, harass the women and there is no one to listen to us," he said.

When asked about forced conversions, he said "Don't ask what happens."

After spending a major part of his life in Pakistan, Daulat Ram, in mid 60s, said that not only he, but a majority of Hindus were willing to migrate to India. "Let the Indian government provide us with job opportunities and then see how many Hindus will leave Pakistan for good," he said.

Another Pakistani Hindu who didn't want to give his name buttressed Daulat Ram's claims. "He has dared to say all this, which is true, but everyone can't speak like him. We have to live there and take care of our families too," he said. He also said that Hindu girls were still being forced to marry Muslims and embrace Islam.

However, another Hindu, Manohar Lal, countered their opinion. He said that, "Things have changed now. Earlier there were some problems as Hindus were being subjected to humiliation but not anymore." Asked about the willingness of Hindus extend their Indian visa's validation he said, "We have been given one-month visa of 7 cities and we have to go back. We will not get long-term visa to stay in India" he said.


http://www.samachar.com/Pakistani-Hindus-seek-Indian-govts-support-to-stay-back-nkquNNddhbi.html?source=recommended_news