Did Guru Gobind Singh Boil Alive Mahants

[Guest dasguruka]

Is the point that Gurbani states the Guru is merciful, kind etc in dispute? For me it is not, however if anyone believes Gurbani does not show Guru Ji as kind, compassionate, merciful etc that that is another matte altogether.

Do people really need exact quotes as it is crystal clear to anyone who has read Gurbani of Guru ji being merciful, kind, compassionate etc.

Therefore the real point is why did the perfect kind Guru boil alive these people? From reading here it appears because they were raping woman, beating people etc. Is that correct, or can anyone add anything further?

Dear brother to understand these things you need to look at this incident from the POV of an Amritdhari Singh or Singhni. We're just like other people are are susceptible to the same form of punishment that would be given to a person who is not baptized. However, for Amritdharis the Guru wants to make sure that our karams are taken care of while we are here on earth so we don't have to return to pay for our deeds. Gurbani describes Akal Purakh as the most merciful, kind, generous etc. but there are also Shabads that taunt us if we don't Jap Naam. I don't remember the exact Shabads but this particular Shabad says that if you were given a human life and you wasted it, then why weren't you aborted while in the womb. There are probably others too on the same concept.

My point is who knows why Guru Ji ordered them to be boiled alive. Maybe that was going to happen to them in naraks and Guru Ji actually saved them by giving them the punishment here on earth. Who knows? It's His khel. Either way, a true Sikh would not leave his Guru regardless of what Guru Ji put him/her through.

[sat]

This incident did take place, the well from which maharaj got the oil for the couldrans still exisits.

Please listen to the link below for the details of what took place and why

http://kam1825.podbean.com/e/sri-guru-gobind-singh-ji-and-the-wicked-masands/

yes absolutely correct it is in Anadpur Sahib near to when we climb up the short hill/road to Sri Keshgar Sahib ji and where the stalls on the left hand side of the road actually continue down another road to the left Gurdwara Sahib is down that way i forget the name its also where the kashmiri pandits came to see Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji and where Guru i lived with there family and where Guru Gobind Singh ji was given the Gurgaddi. there is a well there too.

[chatanga]

There was a saakhi of one Masand who was a saintly Gursikh. I forgot his name. But it is said when Guru Jee ordered that the Masands be brought to Anandpur Sahib, but no one dared to touch the beard of this Gursikh Masand since everyone knew he was sinless. When this Gursikh Masand found out, he himself grabbed his own beard and presented himself in front of Guru Gobind Singh Jee because he wanted to keep the maan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee's bachans. Guru Jee seeing him with is beard in his hand said: This hukam was not for Gursikhs like you, but for sinful Masands".

It was an Udasi Sikh called Bhai Sangat, who was called Sachi Darri by Guru Ji. His dera is in Pakistan now. Crumbling.

[proactive]

Personally I think we need to be careful of accepting stories such as the killings of the Masands without there being ample historical evidence for this story. The Guru had gold on his arrows so that if the person who was hit by the arrow was injured he would be able to afford to treat the wound and if he died then his relatives would be able to afford his funeral. It does not seem to be in keeping with the Gurus than one of them would boil alive Masands no matter what their crime. All sorts of stories contrary to Gurbani have crept into Sikhi such as the Devi worship and havan story mainly though writers who had an agenda.

[Guest dasguruka]

Personally I think we need to be careful of accepting stories such as the killings of the Masands without there being ample historical evidence for this story. The Guru had gold on his arrows so that if the person who was hit by the arrow was injured he would be able to afford to treat the wound and if he died then his relatives would be able to afford his funeral. It does not seem to be in keeping with the Gurus than one of them would boil alive Masands no matter what their crime. All sorts of stories contrary to Gurbani have crept into Sikhi such as the Devi worship and havan story mainly though writers who had an agenda.

Agreed, but at the same time not everything is made out of blue. This point that "I need evidence right now. no excuses. no compromises" is being used to nullify a lot of Sikh history and break our Sharda. Since we live in times where science and scientific method is the criteria used to measure authenticity, a lot of things that happened in Gurughar would seem like they are impossible. It's a very thin line to reason out what to believe and not to believe.

[BarinderSingh]

Personally I think we need to be careful of accepting stories such as the killings of the Masands without there being ample historical evidence for this story. The Guru had gold on his arrows so that if the person who was hit by the arrow was injured he would be able to afford to treat the wound and if he died then his relatives would be able to afford his funeral. It does not seem to be in keeping with the Gurus than one of them would boil alive Masands no matter what their crime. All sorts of stories contrary to Gurbani have crept into Sikhi such as the Devi worship and havan story mainly though writers who had an agenda.

Comparing warfare to the incident of the Masands is not practical. Warfare involves armies that are paid to fight and are blinded from the truth to the point where many lies are told about why we need to fight and kill the other side (devils, kafirs, etc). Guru Sahib put that gold at the tip of the arrow is the same compassion Bhai Khanhaiya ji saw in helping the wounded "enemy" soldiers. Reading Zafarnama it is clear Guru Sahib completed the task of burning the masands. The words used towards Aurangzeb show the Bir Ras coming from the writing of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Aurangzeb passed away after reading Zafarnama. The masands like Aurangzeb broke an oath they took in front of the Guru. The 40 mukhta also broke an oath, but they were forgiven because they came back to defend their Guru in the battlefield. The 40 mukhta regained their oaths honor. However the Masands were on a rampage of destruction. In this rampage there was no moral acts in site. Did Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji warn the masand to stop their immoral behavior is not clear in history, but looking at the Guru Sahib's Bani, this is very likely. Guru Sahib gives the chance of receiving forgiveness many times, but sometimes, when the actions are too harsh and horrible Guru Sahib takes on the form of NarSingh and sinks his claws in to take the dusht apart piece by piece. Chandu Shah was also brutally taken apart by the Gursikhs at the orders of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji. The sangat is like the innocent Bhagat Prahlaad. They try to follow the Guru's instructions to the best of their ability. They come to the Guru after a hard day's of work to get darshan and give whatever they have made back to the Guru. They travel for long hours or even days to get Guru Sahib Darshan. They put their trust in the custodians of the Gurdwaras to be honest with them and give them the direction of their Guru. These Bhagats (Guru ki sangat) were being wronged by the Masands as poster Jonny101 describes on this thread. Guru Sahib is in love with his Bhagats and stand up for his bhagats when they need him.

[N30S1NGH]

Yes massands were burned by Guru maharaj..it was based on those times, circumstances/level of corruption/individuals karams but that incident was never intended or meant for turning into some sort of law or precedence.

Also another thing i have heard from senior gurmukhs...its common belief that if someone was killed by guru/hari avtars of vahiguroo - in this case guru maharaj they got mukhti- they stopped individuals but at the end behind that thought of stopping them in the game- maharaj lela or tamasha- there is non dual equal love for them like for everyone else-Guru ji nature is listed in mool mantra- (Advait-Ikongkar one in all, all in one, Nirbhauo-No Fear all pervading love, Nirvair- No Hate )

They stopped them out of spontenous infinite bir ras* stream flow not out of anger and also it was those masands karma to have death by guru maharaj poran avtar....gyani sher singh talks about sakhi of aurenzeb where guru maharaj ji refused to destroy him physically but rather through zafarnama, its very interesting episode between sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj and aurenzeb..he basically for lack of better word- killed aurenzeb with zafarnama..there was a compassion behind guru maharaj upon stopping/killing oppressors/masands.

All in all - we sikhs cannot and should not copy actions of guru maharaj and turn them into some laws or rules as we cannot copy or mimic actions of guru maharaj as us mere mortals cannot understand karamati/incomprehensible actions by guru maharaj who is pure incarnation of vahiguroo ji himself..!!!

[BarinderSingh]

The people who play God and Guru Sahib are the ones who make up stories and then call a Baba the roop of Guru Nanak Dev ji. These sad people tell others if you dont believe in my baba you are going to hell and tell others where so and so went. None of these ignorant people have gone to see where the masands went or not. They make up these stories to elevate their baba, the same baba that says sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji took drugs. They are the descendants of Sri Chand who elevated a stone worship of Guru Nanak Dev ji to take Sikhs away from the worship of the true Guru, Sri Guru Angdev ji. They don't even let shaheed Singh family have peace. They make up lies to kill shaheed singh's families.

[jasvendrasingh]

As someone says, the Masands began committing many crimes like stealing money and raping women. Beating and killing anyone who tried to prevent their sisters daughters from being raped. When Guru Jee heard this He ordered that all Masands be brought at Anandpur Sahib by grabbing them from their beard. Not all Masands were killed. Only those who committed these crimes were killed. There was a saakhi of one Masand who was a saintly Gursikh. I forgot his name. But it is said when Guru Jee ordered that the Masands be brought to Anandpur Sahib, but no one dared to touch the beard of this Gursikh Masand since everyone knew he was sinless. When this Gursikh Masand found out, he himself grabbed his own beard and presented himself in front of Guru Gobind Singh Jee because he wanted to keep the maan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee's bachans. Guru Jee seeing him with is beard in his hand said: This hukam was not for Gursikhs like you, but for sinful Masands".

He was given title SACHA DAHRA - his name is mentioned as Bhai Feru ji in history .When Guru Sahibji was told by the Cashiers thst he is never sending Kaar bheta in Khazana , guru sahib told that he has been sending it directly and Guru ji himself recieved itt ,the fact was that Bhai Feru Ji was doing Kirat for his livelihood and the offering recieved from sangat was being utilised for welfare works and sewa of l;ocal Sangat .It was here that Guru Sahib declared that Gareeb da mooh Guru di Golak Hai

and this dictum which came direct from Guru Sahib ji mukharbind -we have forgotten today

[intrigued]

On 5/25/2014 at 4:48 AM, Jonny101 said:

As someone says, the Masands began committing many crimes like stealing money and raping women. Beating and killing anyone who tried to prevent their sisters daughters from being raped. When Guru Jee heard this He ordered that all Masands be brought at Anandpur Sahib by grabbing them from their beard. Not all Masands were killed. Only those who committed these crimes were killed. There was a saakhi of one Masand who was a saintly Gursikh. I forgot his name. But it is said when Guru Jee ordered that the Masands be brought to Anandpur Sahib, but no one dared to touch the beard of this Gursikh Masand since everyone knew he was sinless. When this Gursikh Masand found out, he himself grabbed his own beard and presented himself in front of Guru Gobind Singh Jee because he wanted to keep the maan of Guru Gobind Singh Jee's bachans. Guru Jee seeing him with is beard in his hand said: This hukam was not for Gursikhs like you, but for sinful Masands".