Akal Bunga - Confused

[TuhadaDaas 106]

I just had a few questions about, 'Akal Bunga' which I was hoping that the sangat could help me with.

Firstly, I saw a video of the funeral of Baba Mani Singh, and I didn't really understand a few things i saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2IGhLZ_WYQ

1. In the above video, the body of Baba Mani Singh has a chaur sahib being waved above it, and members of the Akal Bunga sangat seem to be covering the body in almonds and mishri. This includes the current head of the organisation Baba Surinder Singh also did the same so this act of placing food items onto the dead body seems to be sanctioned by the organisation. Watching the video you can see the body has been completely covered in sultanas, almonds and mishri. I found this quite odd. What use does a dead body have for food? Can someone please explain?

2.I was also surprised at Baba Surinder Singh, at about 10:40 in the video he seems to actually bow his head onto the body and start crying a lot. I thought we only bow our head to Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Also I thought in Sikhi we don't cry about people passing as it is bhana, especially spiritually advanced Brahmgyanis? He also seems to repeatedly lower his head to the dead body. I'm just wondering if that's part of Gursikhi? The sangat seem to be coming and bowing down as well.

3. Just wondering about the photo below, why is Baba Mani Singh's hand placed in the way it is? What is he saying by putting his hand up in that way for the camera?

[sat 542]

We should bow only to SGGS ji maharaj, He is our Guru sant mata pita friend etc etc.

There is nothing wrong with showing anyone respect and we should but to over state it to the point we start to worship a human is wrong .

No one is equal to Guru Nanak and his 9 other forms and now SGGS JI .

a pose for a camera or wearing of a particular bana should not sway us in anyway to start to consider anyone equal to the Guru Sahib.

But we should show respect according to Gurmat.

If i have hurt anyone feeling i humbly beg for forgiveness, neither am i implying and negativity toward any Gursikh.

[jivan 47]

The chaur sahib is done all on Sant mahapurkhs bodies after akaal chalana. Sant Ishar Singh nanaksar, Rara Sahib, etc etc etc if you need pics to convince you i can send you them.

The parshad in the coffin is done for some reasons including Sugandhi (when the body is cremated to create a pleasant smell ) and also is traditionally done on Young Mahapurkhs who have passed away. its got nothing to do with food going to the after life. Regarding Bowing, maybe you are not familiar with any sant samparda. Every Sant Samaparda bows down to their Mahapurkh, Nanaksar, taksal, Rara sahib etc. we have this misconception we can only bow to SGGS ji. Well infact SGGS ji tells us 'Mokau Kar Santan Ki Dhoorai' - 'Jo deesai gursikhra tis niv niv laago paae jio'

I'm sorry but accepting Bhana doesn't mean you cannot show your emotions. Do you think when Guru Sahib left the sikhs at Sri Hazur Sahib they were sitting there with no tears? When your Murshad leaves you what do you expect? It is bairaag, the pain of separation. Sant Ishar Singh Ji Nanaksar used to sit secluded in a forest in Dehradun after Baba Nand Singh Jis passing, with tears of separation while ragi Kehar Singh Ji sang bairagmei shabads.

The hand is just a form of blessing. it is something a lot of mahapurkhs did.

I hope this cleared your doubts.

[TuhadaDaas 106]

The chaur sahib is done all on Sant mahapurkhs bodies after akaal chalana. Sant Ishar Singh nanaksar, Rara Sahib, etc etc etc if you need pics to convince you i can send you them.

What is the purpose of doing it?

Are there different types of Sikhs? who decides who is a sant and not? Chaur Sahib is done over Guru Granth Sahib Jee to show that he is the true king, by doing a chaur it really gives the impresion that sant mahapurakhs" have the same status as Guru Sahib.

what next? chandoa? takht?

Personally I am very offended at seeing a chaur done anywhere but over Guru Sahib. Also, there wpuld be uproar if this was done over a living person, yet somehow because its a body its now ok? even this makes no sense as Gurbani tells us a body might as well be eaten by dogs after the jjot has left it. Seems abit OTT and not in line with Guru sahibs teaching to show this much reverence towards an empty corpse.

The parshad in the coffin is done for some reasons including Sugandhi (when the body is cremated to create a pleasant smell ) and also is traditionally done on Young Mahapurkhs who have passed away. its got nothing to do with food going to the after life. Regarding Bowing, maybe you are not familiar with any sant samparda. Every Sant Samaparda bows down to their Mahapurkh, Nanaksar, taksal, Rara sahib etc. we have this misconception we can only bow to SGGS ji. Well infact SGGS ji tells us 'Mokau Kar Santan Ki Dhoorai' - 'Jo deesai gursikhra tis niv niv laago paae jio'

I'm sure they could find a better way than to waste precious food in a world full of living people who are starving to create a nice smell. nit really a satisfying answer. Also, if that is the case what is the need to make a ritual out if it by getting all of the sangat to put the food on the dead body one by one? Also, why are you calling it parshad?

I'm sorry but accepting Bhana doesn't mean you cannot show your emotions. Do you think when Guru Sahib left the sikhs at Sri Hazur Sahib they were sitting there with no tears? When your Murshad leaves you what do you expect? It is bairaag, the pain of separation. Sant Ishar Singh Ji Nanaksar used to sit secluded in a forest in Dehradun after Baba Nand Singh Jis passing, with tears of separation while ragi Kehar Singh Ji sang bairagmei shabads.

I'm sure ordinary Sikhs cried but if Baba Surinder Singh is a brahmgyani as his followers call him I would think he would demonstrate Gurbani's hukam of not to cry at death.

I believe accepting bhana means you dont get these false emotions in the first place as as a brahmgyani you would be in a state of anand all the time.

The hand is just a form of blessing. it is something a lot of mahapurkhs did.

Who is he blessing by posing for the photo like this, the world at large?

should'nt blessing someone be a private and personal event? As an outsider it really gives the impression that he is presenting himself as some sort of higher authority capable of giving blessings by posing in this way. Just a thought.

Thanks for your answers, though I'm still quite unsure about this organisation and individuals involved in it.

[Koi 554]

Did Guru Angad Patshah Ji Maharaj not do bairaag when Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj went to Sach Khand? Yes they did. There's a whole Sakhi on it.

[jivan 47]

Sadly narrow minded people will only see through a narrow lense, and totally not even take into account the parchar people like Sant Mani Singh ji did.

Re Chaur Sahib: Chaur Sahib was also done on Rajas (where the idea is from) - and is still done on certains rajas. even the sikh rajas did it, it is a symbol of royalty. Where SGGS is the Chavar Takhat de maalik it doesn't mean the chaur is exclusive to them. Also if you read Gurpartap Suraj, when a Brahamgiani passes away they enter the 8th stage of BrahamGian where there is no difference left between them and God. Anyways if it offends you i understand, as it is hard for people to see this for the first time. but the fact is all a lot of mahapurkhs have had it during antam sanskars.

Re: Baba Surinder Singh Ji, he has never called himself a Brahamgiani, only a Sikh. Neither do his 'followers'.

Your idea of wasting food is also redundant. whats next?? - why do we waste wood for a coffin, you could give it to poor ppl to build a house? Why do we waste cloth for the mahapurkhs body, we could give that too poor people instead? etc etc - such a stupid argument put forward. There is a difference in 'wasting' and doing Satkaar of great Gurmukhs.

Re the hands up picture - singh ji are you serious? Will you next attack Sant Isher Singh rara Sahib, Nanaksar, Sant Mihan Singh, Sant Kishan Singh ETC who all same similar pictures?

STOP wasting precious time on these arguments! Instead listen to the bachans of these mahapurakhs and see what they were really about.

Thats me done for this thread. Admin please delete/close this thread, as all of tuhada das' questions have been answered.

Vjkk Vjkf

[N30S1NGH 3,143]

Don't let satkar aspect ( which is aligned with gurbani) of saint cloud your judgement..look beyond body satkar, look at their jeevan- they live gurbani essence in live expereince.. Sant Mani Singh Ji unfolding flow write up on enligtenment, god and love in english and katha shed lights on one of most hidden secrets within Gurbani- how to expereince shabad guru and shabad guru gian. It will be quite a petty if one only picks up on basic difference of opnion regarding satkar of bhramgyani sant khalsa does not even make an effort to look beyond, look at their jevan, expereince of gurbani or abide in shabad gian updesh via them.

[sat 542]

Did Guru Angad Patshah Ji Maharaj not do bairaag when Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj went to Sach Khand? Yes they did. There's a whole Sakhi on

What is the purpose of doing it?

Are there different types of Sikhs? who decides who is a sant and not? Chaur Sahib is done over Guru Granth Sahib Jee to show that he is the true king, by doing a chaur it really gives the impresion that sant mahapurakhs" have the same status as Guru Sahib.

what next? chandoa? takht?

Personally I am very offended at seeing a chaur done anywhere but over Guru Sahib. Also, there wpuld be uproar if this was done over a living person, yet somehow because its a body its now ok? even this makes no sense as Gurbani tells us a body might as well be eaten by dogs after the jjot has left it. Seems abit OTT and not in line with Guru sahibs teaching to show this much reverence towards an empty corpse.

I'm sure they could find a better way than to waste precious food in a world full of living people who are starving to create a nice smell. nit really a satisfying answer. Also, if that is the case what is the need to make a ritual out if it by getting all of the sangat to put the food on the dead body one by one? Also, why are you calling it parshad?

I'm sure ordinary Sikhs cried but if Baba Surinder Singh is a brahmgyani as his followers call him I would think he would demonstrate Gurbani's hukam of not to cry at death.

I believe accepting bhana means you dont get these false emotions in the first place as as a brahmgyani you would be in a state of anand all the time.

Who is he blessing by posing for the photo like this, the world at large?

should'nt blessing someone be a private and personal event? As an outsider it really gives the impression that he is presenting himself as some sort of higher authority capable of giving blessings by posing in this way. Just a thought.

Thanks for your answers, though I'm still quite unsure about this organisation and individuals involved in it.

Good questions

Lets not hurt each others feelings those who follow a particular sant thats their choice, those who consider only SGGS ji as their all, Guru, sant, etc etc. thats fine too.

We should show respect to all Gursikhs especially the ones who jaap naam always and encourage others to, whether they are brahmgianis or not only Guru sahib ji knows that.

what is true is we are the children of the same Guru pita and he loves us all equally.

kach pakaa-ee othai paa-ay.

The ripe and the unripe, the good and the bad, shall there be judged.

[savinderpalsingh 705]

you would be offended by chaur on maharaja ranjit singh

basically any mahapursh or puratan jathedars were always done chaur

[sat 542]

Don't let satkar aspect ( which is aligned with gurbani) of saint cloud your judgement..look beyond body satkar, look at their jeevan- they live gurbani essence in live expereince.. Sant Mani Singh Ji unfolding flow write up on enligtenment, god and love in english and katha shed lights on one of most hidden secrets within Gurbani- how to expereince shabad guru and shabad guru gian. It will be quite a petty if one only picks up on basic difference of opnion regarding satkar of bhramgyani sant khalsa does not even make an effort to look beyond, look at their jevan, expereince of gurbani or abide in shabad gian updesh via them.

absolutely

Their jeevan , what they have done/doing for humanity, have they stood up when their has been injustices taking place, where were they in 1984 when the darbar sahib was being attacked etc etc , like sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindrawale, who incidentally in one of their speeches if i remember correctly said dont just call anyone a bramhgiani and certainly not me ! (this to me is a true sant) n30singh ji is correct look at all of these things.