Memorial For Sikh Soldiers Set To Be Unveiled In Staffordshire

[JagsawSingh]

Bhatras are the one of the most ferocious group of Sikhs there ever was and are still today.

No. And that is articulated in the fact that while ALL the other Sikhs groups formed into Misls and took power, destroying the enemies, made empires, accumulated vast land the Bhatras managed the following:

• Zero Armies / Misls
• Zero land aquired
• Zero power acquired
• Zero enemies defeated in battles
• Zero political power

Your community has achieved Zero nothing and that is why it has always been a fringe little group on the outskirts of Sikhi as the other Sikh groups not only do not accept you they also have nothing to do with you. Now thats nothing to do with background. Its to do with culture and traditions. Your culture and traditions are, to ALL the other Sikhs, completely and utterly low class and un-Sikh. So, whatever the opposite word for ferocious is, that is what the Bhatras are. That is borne out in the fact that the vast majority of Sikhs have never even heard of a 'bhatra'. The other thing to remember is that 50% of all Sikhs are female, and while all other Sikh groups have Sikh female warriors with dastars and shasters, the Bhatra women swan about in tacky gypsy gold and red dots on their foreheads with the word 'Devi' in their name.

There were no Jatt Sikhs even in existence. At this time Sikhism was under threat.

You're now making up history as you go along you little muppet. All the history books tell of the time during Sri Guru Hargobind's time when Sikhi entered the military phase and the Jatts entered en masse. During that time, the history books say, the bhatras were wandering minstrels from central India who had just begun to enter the Punjab after learning about Sikhi on our Guru's travels in India. Thus, your people are not ethnically Punjabi in the sense that all other groups and that of course is borne out in the way your people look

If it wasn’t for Bhatras. There would be no Jatt Sikhs.

Jesus Christ just how deluded are you ? :biggrin2: Do you even know how small and insignificant the Bhtra population is in comparison to worldwide Sikhi ? Your community is so small in numbers that most have absolutely no idea you even exist.

The only reason you have a Sikh faith today is because of us. Sikhism could have been wiped out at that early stage. Yet the Bhatras were so Loyal to the Gurus that they defended the faith to the very end.

:biggrin2: So lets get this straight, a tiny insigificant group of small dark people from central India came to the Punjab to act as 'bhats'...i.e minstrels, never ever had any army, but saved all the Sikhs with their fortune telling skills ?????? Seriously fella, you have mental health issues.

Infact the Bhatras were responsible for converting many Hindus and muslims to Sikhism this is well documented.

Don't just say its well documented....document it for us.

Whilst countless Jatts converted to Islam. This is evident in Jatt surnames that Muslims have in paki stan.

We're the same blood. From the same clans. Were living together in the same pends right up until 1947. Both my forefathers and the forefathers of the Muslim Jatts converted from the darkness that was Hinduism. None converted from Sikhism to islam. So what point do you think you're trying to make then ?

Bhatras are made up of Warrior groups

Your people are little dark people native to Central India. You came to the Punjab to wander about as minstrels and as such took on the profession of kirtanis. You must be the great warriors that every single book ever written about Sikh warriors forgot to mention :biggrin2:

As we are smart and clever. Not Pendus from the farm lands

Right from the beginning, right 'till today, the bhatras have been landless. Yes I and my community own the land. Its not just any old land mind. Its the beautiful fertile land of the Punjab which is arguably the most expensive agricultural land on planet earth (selling 1 acre in Punjab buys you 20 to 30 acres in Canada and 10 acres in expensive England)

So for the record you owe a great deal of Gratitude to the Bhatras for establishing the Sikh faith.

Seriously now, get some mental help man.

Bhatras are fastest growing Sikh group as we have more kids the Jatts do who only have 1 or 2 kids.

You are so tiny and insignificant nobody even knows you exist. But you're right, you are the 'Mirpuris' of the Sikh community in that you think women only exist to stay at home, cover themselves and make babies for the men.

We will soon take over. We even marry jatt girls and they accept that they are coming back to their original and best Sikhs of all the Bhatras.

And there we go. Our very own resident Pakistani Mirpuri community, equally as lazy without the Sikh / Punjabi work ethic and equally as abusive towards females.

[JagsawSingh]

Very interesting. So I'm not imagining it, lol.

You're spot on. Hitler wanted to avoid war with the British, because he admired them, and he thought of them as one of the last remaining pure "white" races (depending on how far we go back in history).

Let's not kid ourselves, there's some goreh who'd have preferred being ruled by the Third Reich from afar than letting anyone in from the eastern colonies into this country, and the associated issues we are now beginning to see take hold. It would've kept the racial makeup of this country white, and in this current climate I can imagine there's a few wistful old-timers who find themselves thinking, "what if?" even though they'd be loathed to admit such a thing.

For all their tenacity and cunning over the centuries I can't help but think the British got the short end of the stick after WW2. Fleeing India after ransacking it of all it had was the final act of defeat IMO.

No. Things are rarely what they seem MisterSingh. No really talking about the 'german / 3rd reich' thing you mentioned in your message because I really don't have much interest in that. I'm talking about the Indian line of 'The British were evil theives who looted India' that some Punjabi Sikhs have foolishly embraced. Sikhs need to remember that they are not some bhaya Bombaywala for whom that statement is true. They are Sikhs from the Punjab. Not India.

I'll telll you what....I'll make a brand new thread on it later this evening when I come back from the Gurdwara (my youngest is performing shabad for first time at darbar kirtan)

[dallysingh101]

You're a clown Jagsaw, even intelligent jats are telling you the way you are thinking is muppetry ala Jugraj Singh but you still persist...lol

[JagsawSingh]

You're a clown Jagsaw, even intelligent jats are telling you the way you are thinking is muppetry ala Jugraj Singh but you still persist...lol

Ah yes. That Jugraj Singh question you keep trying to ignore by posting other stuff instead.

So, for the last time, we're not talking about Jugraj Singh's views about british army's part in Bluestar because we all agree with him there. We're not talking about Jugraj Singh's views about caste because we all agree with him there. In fact, we all agree with him on everything. The question however is about the one thing that you made it clear you didn't agree with him about. Now, I've met Jugraj Singh loadsa times and he's always keen to praise the British Army and its relationship to we Sikhs, and actively reccommends our kids join up. So, I'm asking you for the last time, how do you justify these words of yours:

.You said : "our people aren't as dumb as in the past (even pendu jatts), I can't imagine hordes of apnay joining these people's military like they did in the past. That's not going to happen.

What they will try is to get some uncle Tom type tokens and bandy them about"

So, seeing how Jugraj Singh is also a very proud ex soldier of the British Army how do you explain calling people like him "pendu jatt uncle tom simpletons" ?

One minute you say only backward pendu jatt simpleton uncle tom arse lickers would join the British Army and then when someone points out to you how one of the heroes of our generation is one of those and who also, in his talks, reccomends all Sikhs join up you go silent on the matter. Whats happened to your tongue now ? Speak up. Don't be scared. Have faith in your convictions. You said it so you obviously believe it but Im just asking you to clarify why you think he is such a "pendu jatt backward uncle tom simpleton" when the rest of us have such a high opinion of him. Its a simple question. Answer it

[MisterrSingh]

No. Things are rarely what they seem MisterSingh. No really talking about the 'german / 3rd reich' thing you mentioned in your message because I really don't have much interest in that. I'm talking about the Indian line of 'The British were evil theives who looted India' that some Punjabi Sikhs have foolishly embraced. Sikhs need to remember that they are not some bhaya Bombaywala for whom that statement is true. They are Sikhs from the Punjab. Not India.

I'll telll you what....I'll make a brand new thread on it later this evening when I come back from the Gurdwara (my youngest is performing shabad for first time at darbar kirtan)

I hope your kid shone on their debut.

The British practically raped India, Jagsaw. The Dutch and to a lesser extent the Portuguese too. I've encountered accounts from non-British historians that have laid bare what occurred under the pretext of trading. When they didn't get what they desired through fair means, the old muskets and gunpowder came out. That's before we even mention the furtive subversion of Sikh theological and societal norms, the affects of which can be felt to this very day. Like I said, mental and physical subjugation.

I know you'll make the distinction that we aren't part of India; we are a separate, unique people, etc, that have more in common with our Persian roots than the rest of India, etc, but on a broad nationwide basis it's incorrect to pretend that we, as Punjabis, existed in a void that was safe from British schemes; as if they gave us more than they took from us. You may not prioritise the pain of the average Indian man, woman, and child who suffered at the hands of the British Empire, but many do. That doesn't make me an Indian stooge. It just means I empathise with human suffering for what was ultimately for reasons of vast wealth.

More than just issues of assets and tangible things they stripped from India, they robbed generations of the potential to be more than what that country has become. That's the biggest tragedy in my mind.

I'm neither a British puppet or a traitor who s**ts on my doorstep (yes, I do consider Britain to be my doorstep considering I have a roof over my head and I'm allowed to practice my faith here uninhibited compared to my supposed "own" country where I'm still classed as a Hindu). But what's right is right. I don't have the long-standing military ties to Britain which you do, but I recognise Britain's role in the current state we find ourselves in, as much as I can recognise India's grubby paws in our fate post-47.

If there's something I'm overlooking, then I won't resist the education. Nobody's perfect :)

[Ranjeet01]

Exactly.

Regarding Punjab, it's mentioned previously by others how the Indians are repeating the psychological games started by the British when it comes to Sikhs.

One of the Sikh's psychological flaws is that we are held hostage by this image of being held up by a particular ideal that has been created by others.

We place more importance of what others think of us whether it is the image of us being "a model minority" or one of the "martial races".

An example of this is during interfaith Anand Karaj fiasco. Some of our people were worried about the potential PR disaster rather doing what is right.

[Ranjeet01]

Nah, they sustained so many losses over the 2 WWs that they couldn't maintain their empire any more. And people started to clock their mind games and assert their independence, so they were compelled to leave. Remember their manpower was reduced to such an extent that they were pretty much forced to bring people over from formerly colonised lands to maintain their economy here in the fatherland. That's the real reason we are all here. Not some sort of eternal gratitude as Jigsaw thinks.

But yes, they did deploy their divide and fragment strategy to devastating effect before they left. Panjab (and Sikhs specifically) took the biggest hit in this.

The UK was considerably weakened post WW1 as it was the first time that the aristocracy had been considerably weakened and the feudal/class nature of the country had fundamentally changed.

It was the first war that used chemical weapons and aerial bombings.

There was an interesting documentary a few years ago where the US were looking to start a war on the British Empire in the 1930s. Even though they were allies, it was always the US's intention to dismantle the British Empire.

Gora on Gora violence is always a brutal affair and it is something our forefathers should have kept out of.

[MisterrSingh]

We place more importance of what others think of us whether it is the image of us being "a model minority" or one of the "martial races".

I've been guilty of the above, particularly during my youth and up until relatively recently. I found that a genuine effort to feel, understand, and absorb Gurbani helped me to escape that particular mental prison. It's rather liberating.

[Big_Tera]

No. And that is articulated in the fact that while ALL the other Sikhs groups formed into Misls and took power, destroying the enemies, made empires, accumulated vast land the Bhatras managed the following:

• Zero Armies / Misls
• Zero land aquired
• Zero power acquired
• Zero enemies defeated in battles
• Zero political power

Your community has achieved Zero nothing and that is why it has always been a fringe little group on the outskirts of Sikhi as the other Sikh groups not only do not accept you they also have nothing to do with you. Now thats nothing to do with background. Its to do with culture and traditions. Your culture and traditions are, to ALL the other Sikhs, completely and utterly low class and un-Sikh. So, whatever the opposite word for ferocious is, that is what the Bhatras are. That is borne out in the fact that the vast majority of Sikhs have never even heard of a 'bhatra'. The other thing to remember is that 50% of all Sikhs are female, and while all other Sikh groups have Sikh female warriors with dastars and shasters, the Bhatra women swan about in tacky gypsy gold and red dots on their foreheads with the word 'Devi' in their name.

You're now making up history as you go along you little muppet. All the history books tell of the time during Sri Guru Hargobind's time when Sikhi entered the military phase and the Jatts entered en masse. During that time, the history books say, the bhatras were wandering minstrels from central India who had just begun to enter the Punjab after learning about Sikhi on our Guru's travels in India. Thus, your people are not ethnically Punjabi in the sense that all other groups and that of course is borne out in the way your people look

Jesus Christ just how deluded are you ? :biggrin2: Do you even know how small and insignificant the Bhtra population is in comparison to worldwide Sikhi ? Your community is so small in numbers that most have absolutely no idea you even exist.

:biggrin2: So lets get this straight, a tiny insigificant group of small dark people from central India came to the Punjab to act as 'bhats'...i.e minstrels, never ever had any army, but saved all the Sikhs with their fortune telling skills ?????? Seriously fella, you have mental health issues.

Don't just say its well documented....document it for us.

We're the same blood. From the same clans. Were living together in the same pends right up until 1947. Both my forefathers and the forefathers of the Muslim Jatts converted from the darkness that was Hinduism. None converted from Sikhism to islam. So what point do you think you're trying to make then ?

Your people are little dark people native to Central India. You came to the Punjab to wander about as minstrels and as such took on the profession of kirtanis. You must be the great warriors that every single book ever written about Sikh warriors forgot to mention :biggrin2:

Right from the beginning, right 'till today, the bhatras have been landless. Yes I and my community own the land. Its not just any old land mind. Its the beautiful fertile land of the Punjab which is arguably the most expensive agricultural land on planet earth (selling 1 acre in Punjab buys you 20 to 30 acres in Canada and 10 acres in expensive England)

Seriously now, get some mental help man.

You are so tiny and insignificant nobody even knows you exist. But you're right, you are the 'Mirpuris' of the Sikh community in that you think women only exist to stay at home, cover themselves and make babies for the men.

And there we go. Our very own resident Pakistani Mirpuri community, equally as lazy without the Sikh / Punjabi work ethic and equally as abusive towards females.

You dont know how foolish you sound. Maybe because your not a true Sikh Punjabi like us Bhatras are but a fake imposter. Thats why your probably resent us because you wish you was a Bhatra instead you are a fake Punjabi. no wonder why you cannot even speak Punjabi properly probably but speak in some pendu twang that is foreign to Punjab. Infact Muslims in Pakistan speak better Punjabi then you do . But not even they speak as good Punjabi as us. Thats the reality.

We were amongst the first Sikhs of Guru Nanak. You guys converted much later and entered Punjab much later. Thats why you will always be seen as fake Sikhs.

We are the real Sikhs. We just enjoy seeing u guys trrying to act Punjabi when Punjab is not native to you. But you are nothing but mutton dressed as a wool. We Bhatras are a proud community and dont want to mix with trash like you.

We Established Sikhism then you guys converted after seeing us. You wish you could be apart of us Bhatras but we keep you out as you are unfit to mix with us. Just face it no matter how many Punjabi songs you come out with or how much you try and convince yourself that you are Punjabi. You will always be fake imposters from iran or where ever you came from. But certainly not ethnically Punjabi. Jatts are low down people. Who scrub toliets for a living and commit crimes. This is their way. the Jatt way. Yo are nothing but pretentious Sikh Punjabis.

Bhatras have done very well in the uk. Its just we dont like to brag about it. we laugh when we see a jatt trying to act like a true Punjabi. because we know it is a pure faker.

you are jealous. You guys look so funny with your peculiar and strange faces. That just look daft and silly.

Yes I stand by my comments. The only reason you are Sikh today is beacuse of us. Otherwise you would probably be hindu or muslim. We established the Sikh faith in the early days.

Just face facts. you will always be seen as the fake Sikhs. :biggrin2:

[dallysingh101]

Ah yes. That Jugraj Singh question you keep trying to ignore by posting other stuff instead.

So, for the last time, we're not talking about Jugraj Singh's views about british army's part in Bluestar because we all agree with him there. We're not talking about Jugraj Singh's views about caste because we all agree with him there. In fact, we all agree with him on everything. The question however is about the one thing that you made it clear you didn't agree with him about. Now, I've met Jugraj Singh loadsa times and he's always keen to praise the British Army and its relationship to we Sikhs, and actively reccommends our kids join up. So, I'm asking you for the last time, how do you justify these words of yours:

.You said : "our people aren't as dumb as in the past (even pendu jatts), I can't imagine hordes of apnay joining these people's military like they did in the past. That's not going to happen.

What they will try is to get some uncle Tom type tokens and bandy them about"

So, seeing how Jugraj Singh is also a very proud ex soldier of the British Army how do you explain calling people like him "pendu jatt uncle tom simpletons" ?

One minute you say only backward pendu jatt simpleton uncle tom arse lickers would join the British Army and then when someone points out to you how one of the heroes of our generation is one of those and who also, in his talks, reccomends all Sikhs join up you go silent on the matter. Whats happened to your tongue now ? Speak up. Don't be scared. Have faith in your convictions. You said it so you obviously believe it but Im just asking you to clarify why you think he is such a "pendu jatt backward uncle tom simpleton" when the rest of us have such a high opinion of him. Its a simple question. Answer it

Why don't you read my response?

I've already told you why Jugraj Singh doesn't fall into this category.

Do you have reading difficulties on top of your other mental problems?

The nihilist in me thinks, "F*** it, let's self destruct. If we can't see the wood from the trees we deserve to become a footnote in history." But the softer side of me thinks of the sacrifices made by our Gurus and other notable personalities, and to think of such greatness going to waste seems tragic.

Never man. We aren't going to whimper out like giddarhs, if we are going out - we do it like lions and lionesses.

It's not over yet, the game has just begun!